SC Flightmodel Discussion

[Erik Marcaigh]

Another American POV

I backed both, but only gave SC $35 middle of last year for whatever kickstarter thing they had. I guess it was a ship, the ability to play whatever mods they put out before the game (I still haven't installed their "hangar mod"), and the game when it releases. What initially turned me off was them asking real money for the other ship models they were releasing. Nope, I ain't gunna do that!

When CR released Freelancer, I really enjoyed it, but only because there was no other space sim game out for a long time before that. I'd played Elite on my Commodore 64 and yearned for those days again. What annoyed me about Freelancer (and see in OP's video), are all the annoying animation sequences that get repeated ad-infinitum and the arcade feel of flying. When I start playing the final SC game, and there is no way to turn off those animation sequences, it will be only a few weeks before I'm done for good. In Freelancer, there were slight variations on how the different ships handled. Immersion was completely blown when I first piloted one of the huge transport/destroyer/whatever they were vessels, and they had the same jittery movement as the smaller-mass ships. Freelancer's storyline was really good though, but once you were done, you'd already visited 95% of the available star system. I visited the last few, found a few really cool things, but there was nowhere else to go, or do, or anything. I replayed a year later tho.

What I saw in the video looks a lot like Freelancer, and I, personally, am not that interested in it again. Not with Elite getting closer and closer to release.

I joined ED's Beta back in the Backer's App days, and upped my ante to Alpha a week or so ago. I'm very glad I did, and even if by some crazy twist of fate I decide I don't like ED (like I get hit on the head and lose my mind), it's more about supporting Braben for all his great work he's done.

This American wasn't "yahoo"ing and whatnot as I watched ED videos from the first Alpha backers, but I was certainly sitting on the edge of my seat, pushing my keyboard away so my drool didn't short it out!

And I've been pushing ED to all my gamer buddies here in the States and abroad. I ran a Neverwinter Nights server for 3 years and still keep in touch with my old players from here, Australia, England, Germany, Canada, etc.

I'm hoping Braben decides to push ED in the States using some good ol' fashioned American advertising. It seems to be the only thing most of us notice. And his work is worth a lot of U.S. $$$ to head his direction.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Nice link Mobius - Thank you as I had missed it.

I am glad I backed ED as Elite was my first introduction to space combat games and it blew my mind. If the reboot had gone in the direction of Frontier things may have been different as I couldn't get to grips with the flight model. (Don't think I gave it enough time to be fair but that's what you get when you're an impatient young man )

However, the video footage you showed I think shows some great promise for SC - granted it was a little clunky, but right now that's pre-Alpha and I have to say it looks very good. All depends upon how it feels to play mind.

 

[Jason S]

here is 14 minutes of Star Citizen, on seeing this I now know for Sure that Elite was the one to throw money at. the flight mechanics on this game are, well lets leave that up to you.

Click the image.

1) I like the look of the environment a lot, that is very impressive.
2) I don't like the look of the ships.
3) Out of ship view is not good.
4) Gameplay unkown still.
5) Ship handling not good like elite but they may change that.
6) Helmet toss cool now but could irritate and a little too top gun style.
7) Other ships blew up too easily but perhaps they had no shields or the rockets are powerful.
8) The in cockpit holograms look like inspiration from Elite.

In summary I do not feel the gameplay anywhere matches Elite yet. But the graphics were except for the ships better than Elite.

At the moment Elite is still king but you can get a package for SC for about 40 dollars that gives the full game and so is very good value.

But can they get the gameplay and combat mechanics good in the end ?

We do not need to fear SC as we can play that too and it is in a different time zone and a differenent culture style and design so there will always be enough fans of Elite and the consoles will bring extra cash for Elite. Whereas SC will stay PC only for longer I think.

Do not fear it.

 

[Jason S]

true, but with any story it comes to an end. can SC be deep enough to allow players to create their own story, Squadred 42 is the single player element of the game while Star Citizen is the open world, I don't know if its true but I read that SC changed from having a hundred star systems to being like elite with a generated galaxy.

H'mmm well I have been getting the feeling that SC have been "copying" ideas of elite during this process. But that is the game industry for you...

 

[CMDR Texas Stu]

here is 14 minutes of Star Citizen, on seeing this I now know for Sure that Elite was the one to throw money at. the flight mechanics on this game are, well lets leave that up to you.

Click the image.

Personally I don't care for the spinning MOB with a scrolling background but it does have some coolness to it. That said I'm definitely happier with Elite (IMHO). The external view leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe that will improve for them but thanks for the share, Mobius.

 

[Susimetsa]

Not impressive, but I look forward to seeing more. Good thing, though, that I did not invest as much in SC as I did in E4.

 

[Ixnatifual]

I think some people are missing the point here. Yes SC's dogfight module doesn't currently look as polished as Elite's Alpha, but it's not even in Alpha yet.

Flight model looks like it needs a whole deal of polishing, but principles seem very similar to Elite with speed cap, reticle aim and toggleable flight assist.

It looks like they've chosen to mimic Elite's holographic displays over the silly fragile mechanical arms holding displays in your face, which is a big improvement. Of course it's taking up a little too much of the view currently, but that will no doubt get addressed.

They already have walking around and seamless transition into cockpit. Pretty cool. I'm sure the helmet pickup animation will look less jarring at some point.

I'm getting a Freelancer vibe from the whole thing, but with a less arcady, even if not fully Newtonian, flight model. I really enjoyed Freelancer, so that's a plus for me. Ships looking very detailed and pretty as well.

Bottom line for me, the dogfight module shows there actually is a game and not just hot air and hype. I wish people would drop the "us vs. them" attitude.

 

[GenDesperado]

I think some people are missing the point here. Yes SC's dogfight module doesn't currently look as polished as Elite's Alpha, but it's not even in Alpha yet.

Flight model looks like it needs a whole deal of polishing, but principles seem very similar to Elite with speed cap, reticle aim and toggleable flight assist.

It looks like they've chosen to mimic Elite's holographic displays over the silly fragile mechanical arms holding displays in your face, which is a big improvement. Of course it's taking up a little too much of the view currently, but that will no doubt get addressed.

They already have walking around and seamless transition into cockpit. Pretty cool. I'm sure the helmet pickup animation will look less jarring at some point.

I'm getting a Freelancer vibe from the whole thing, but with a less arcady, even if not fully Newtonian, flight model. I really enjoyed Freelancer, so that's a plus for me. Ships looking very detailed and pretty as well.

Bottom line for me, the dogfight module shows there actually is a game and not just hot air and hype. I wish people would drop the "us vs. them" attitude.

have agree with you on all points

and as you said drop the us vs them crap.........

so childish come on people

 

[Susimetsa]

I think some people are missing the point here. Yes SC's dogfight module doesn't currently look as polished as Elite's Alpha, but it's not even in Alpha yet.

That is the thing that bothers me, actually. They have a far bigger budget, but seem to lag behind in the development.

But I'm sure that they will get there and I do look forward to experiencing their vision.

 

[SnowGhost]

That is the thing that bothers me, actually. They have a far bigger budget, but seem to lag behind in the development.

But I'm sure that they will get there and I do look forward to experiencing their vision.

It seems to me that RSI have been badly sidetracked by unending funding and the ongoing stretch goals.

I mean, a freakin fish tank? That was a million dollar stretch goal. Really? A Fish tank?

How about they stop seeking funding, stop the feature creep and start making the game.

Frontier stopped actively seeking funding at the end of the kickstarter. But IF you want to give Frontier money, well, they'd have to be stupid to not have a process to take it. So they do. But there aren't more stretch goals. They just got down to the hard work of making a game.

 

[Tinman]

and what have been said about arcade style ..true.
flight dynamics will surely improve , what we saw here was terrible.

The flight dynamics we saw here was pretty close to what was shown back in December...if they haven't changed that aspect of the game in a major way since then I don't really expect any major changes in the next few weeks before it gets released to the public.

 

[SAB380]

Starting a thread titled 'we have nothing to fear' is embarrassing

 

[Jason S]

I think some people are missing the point here. Yes SC's dogfight module doesn't currently look as polished as Elite's Alpha, but it's not even in Alpha yet.

Flight model looks like it needs a whole deal of polishing, but principles seem very similar to Elite with speed cap, reticle aim and toggleable flight assist.

It looks like they've chosen to mimic Elite's holographic displays over the silly fragile mechanical arms holding displays in your face, which is a big improvement. Of course it's taking up a little too much of the view currently, but that will no doubt get addressed.

They already have walking around and seamless transition into cockpit. Pretty cool. I'm sure the helmet pickup animation will look less jarring at some point.

I'm getting a Freelancer vibe from the whole thing, but with a less arcady, even if not fully Newtonian, flight model. I really enjoyed Freelancer, so that's a plus for me. Ships looking very detailed and pretty as well.

Bottom line for me, the dogfight module shows there actually is a game and not just hot air and hype. I wish people would drop the "us vs. them" attitude.

Agree with most of that except the them and us attitude here is not that bad here. People are being quite fair and positive to SC considering this is an Elte forum. Actually the maturity on this thread is fairly high.

 

[Ixnatifual]

Did you see the title of the thread?

 

[PacalB]

yes there is, I've known about the thread for some time,

but seeing the game in flight though looks pretty also looks terrible regarding the flight mechanics.

It needs a bit of smoothing out for sure but it's not that bad and I'm 100% sure it will improve. No, I think we are all lucky to have two great space sims/games being developed. We are all in for a great rock & roll of a time given to us by both dev camps!

 

[Vreynn]

Starting a thread titled 'we have nothing to fear' is embarrassing

No kidding.

The concept of arbitrarily taking a side is childish and insecure.

I want all of these space sims to do extremely well for themselves, and I'm sure a lot of other people feel the same way.

Did fans of X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter fear Descent Freespace? I don't remember this. I don't think anybody cared, they were two different games and people played what they were in the mood for. E:D and SC are certainly just as different from each other. One day I'll want to take a Cobra to an undiscovered system to buzz around a planet surface, and another a couple friends and I will crew an RSI Orion to go do some mining. It doesn't matter.

 

[Hellhawk666]

Good to finally see something more of SC instead of hanging about in my hanger looking at my pretty ships ... sitting there.

Great ship models and I like the avatar. The in-hanger intro sequence is cool but will get boring once you've flipped the helmet 300 times. Love the way the hanger door shutters slam open - very weighty sounding.

Combat looked OK - probably still very place-holder in many respects. I do like the concept for the HUD, but kept wondering if it would look better in orange The ship movement itself, the whole flight mechanic, didn't feel quite "right". As many have said, a bit arcade-ish, but that's not surprising. E:D's flight mechanic is a natural evolution from the old Elite, and SC's looks very much like an evolution of Freelancer. I don't mind it, and look forward to playing, but E:D looks more like my cup of tea, at this time at least.

Very happy I backed SC with an Aurora LX and an Origin 315p. Even happier I backed E:D at DDF level.

 

[Comandante]

+1 Vreynn. X-Wing was superb. Only space sim I ever played apart from Elite.

Yeah where's that old game spirit, 'hey what you playing? Oh, cool,...'? Good old days of tapes and then floppy disks.

Be great if E: D and SC wrote an expansion/plugin where a hyperspace failure or planned mission enables you to do MP vs each other in a separate universe.

I know people that have backed SC and really look forward to having a fly in one of their loadouts.

 

[JeffRyan]

No kidding.

The concept of arbitrarily taking a side is childish and insecure.

I think people aren't aware of Mobius's history with Frontier as well. He isn't taking a side or arbitrarily choosing with his eyes shut. He says what he thinks. Being a decent guy most of what he says is decent, insightful and intelligent. He hasn't shied away from criticising Frontier either, there was a big post a while back which saw him squaring up squarely to Frontier and said what many people were thinking back in January I think it was.

He isn't just being an Elite fanboy. His opinions, right or wrong (and in this case I agree with him) are what he thinks. He's levelled his sometimes unpopular opinions at Frontier "so why are you treating us like Kids, We have each given you a rather large amount of cash to help test Elite and we want this to work as much as you guys do" caused a furore in the alpha forums a while back.

I'm defending him here because whatever he says it's what he thinks and unlike some people who'll blindly jump to Frontier's defense, in this case he's being critical of another game. It's what he thinks, it's based on what he's seen and unlike earlier comparisons from a lot of people on both sides, it's based being actually able to compare both games now.

He isn't the most diplomatic of ambassadors sometimes and I've disagreed with him as well in the past, but I know he's just saying what he thinks and he's relatively objective. He doesn't troll, people confuse actual critical thought (here's my negative opinion of your product, which I actually believe) with trolling (here's me negative opinion expressed in the most provocative way possible, just to cause drama).

 

[Lortsamler]

I backed both, but only gave SC $35 middle of last year for whatever kickstarter thing they had. I guess it was a ship, the ability to play whatever mods they put out before the game (I still haven't installed their "hangar mod"), and the game when it releases. What initially turned me off was them asking real money for the other ship models they were releasing. Nope, I ain't gunna do that!

When CR released Freelancer, I really enjoyed it, but only because there was no other space sim game out for a long time before that. I'd played Elite on my Commodore 64 and yearned for those days again. What annoyed me about Freelancer (and see in OP's video), are all the annoying animation sequences that get repeated ad-infinitum and the arcade feel of flying. When I start playing the final SC game, and there is no way to turn off those animation sequences, it will be only a few weeks before I'm done for good. In Freelancer, there were slight variations on how the different ships handled. Immersion was completely blown when I first piloted one of the huge transport/destroyer/whatever they were vessels, and they had the same jittery movement as the smaller-mass ships. Freelancer's storyline was really good though, but once you were done, you'd already visited 95% of the available star system. I visited the last few, found a few really cool things, but there was nowhere else to go, or do, or anything. I replayed a year later tho.

What I saw in the video looks a lot like Freelancer, and I, personally, am not that interested in it again. Not with Elite getting closer and closer to release.

I joined ED's Beta back in the Backer's App days, and upped my ante to Alpha a week or so ago. I'm very glad I did, and even if by some crazy twist of fate I decide I don't like ED (like I get hit on the head and lose my mind), it's more about supporting Braben for all his great work he's done.

This American wasn't "yahoo"ing and whatnot as I watched ED videos from the first Alpha backers, but I was certainly sitting on the edge of my seat, pushing my keyboard away so my drool didn't short it out!

And I've been pushing ED to all my gamer buddies here in the States and abroad. I ran a Neverwinter Nights server for 3 years and still keep in touch with my old players from here, Australia, England, Germany, Canada, etc.

I'm hoping Braben decides to push ED in the States using some good ol' fashioned American advertising. It seems to be the only thing most of us notice. And his work is worth a lot of U.S. $$$ to head his direction.

This is just the way i look at it. And i also backed Star Citizen only $35 because of the same reasons you did. While i put everything i could into Elite even if i knew i would have time for DDF or even testing the alpha(i downloaded it,but simply haven't had the time to even test it) But i did manage to get all of my friends that used to love Elite to jump in and support the game