Shouldn't dedicated ships make more money on average in comparison to multitasking ships?

I was discussing with a friend and we did some maths:

So, new question:
Why can I make 113M/hour doing Passenger Missions with a Python, but only 64M/hour using a Beluga?

"But you're supposed to use luxury cabins and do long range missions, that's the differential"
I did that. Took me a bunch of board flipping to fill my missions with passengers wanting to go to Sag. A, all paying extremely well, of course.
In the time it took me to go there and come back, even after selling exploration data, I could've made with the Python (in the same time frame that trip took to be completed) whopping 1.7B.

Assuming both are engineered, if I decide to do something else, combat for example, I can swap my Python internals and I'm good to go in a few minutes, buuuuut I can't fight on a Beluga (I'm not THAT guy), so I have to get another ship and outfit / engineer it for combat.

So again, why does a ship made for passenger missions make so much less money doing what it was made for than a ship that can be fitted to do basically anything?
 
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"But you're supposed to use luxury cabins and do long range missions, that's the differential"
I did that. Took me a bunch of board flipping to fill my missions with passengers wanting to go to Sag. A, all paying extremely well, of course.
In the time it took me to go there and come back, even after selling exploration data, I could've made with the Python (in the same time frame that trip took to be completed) whopping 1.7B.

You do realize the Beluga can use non-luxury cabins, right? It can carry more passengers than a Python, as well as more total cabins. It should be able to make more per hour running passenger missions than the Python. If you take the Python to Sag A while leaving the Beluga in the bubble to run passenger missions, it will make much more than the Python in the same amount of time.

Are luxury missions less than impressive, sure, so don't do them if you don't like them and stop pretending it is the Python or Beluga's fault.
 
Python is Medium size ship -
Beluga is Large -
Orca is Large but smaller than Beluga, the comparison should be with the Orca.
Orca is 96 max pax
Python is 146 max pax

So the multipurpose ship beats the passenger specialist ship even though the specialist ship is a size class above it.
 
Beluga definitely stinks, but that doesn't mean the Python is OP.

Give the Beluga a C8 FSD(it already exists ingame) and it'll be muy bueno.
 
This is an old topic, and there is no simple solutions here. We used to have lots of locked slots in Passenger ships (Orca, Beluga and Dolphin), and this was followed up with the military slots. and the military slots was restricted to avoid buffing the multi-role ships to be even better than their combat oriented peers. So that is why not all ships have those military restricted slots. The restriction on the Passenger ships got removed. We have also had suggestions to add other locked slots, like exploration only slots on "exploration" ships for example, and mining slots on "mining" ships, which I have no idea which ships are considered to be that...


So we know we have unbalance between ships, so this is about how to balance this, restricted slots was not the magic solution, so what is?

So this suggestion appears to be about giving a small bonus to balance this, so how "small" bonus are we talking about here?
Lets take a Python a well known multi-role ship and compare it to all other medium ships. In how many aspects does other ships win over a Python in the following activities?
  • Combat
  • Trading (moving cargo)
  • Passenger missions
  • Exploration, or more precisely, long range travel.


So on overall, the Python is best or on par with the best the ship for most of these tasks. Then lets figure out how much worse are "specialist" ships? 1% 5% 10%, more?

So lets start with something that is not bound to much to pure skill, moving cargo. It is a relatively simple task, move cargo from A to B, the more cargo you move, the bigger the profit... The same goes for Missions, the more you can move, the more missions you can do.
We all know that Type 9 is one of the better ships when it comes to moving Cargo, but it is a large ship, we have Type 7, that is also a large ship, and then we have Type 6, a medium ship. So a Type 6 with no shields have a cargo capacity of 114T, that is a far cry from the Python's 294T cargo capacity. But then again, the Python is like 56 times more expensive to buy...So it looks more like the Type 6 is a cheap entry level cargo hauler.

So lets see what other medium ships that can rival the Python. The closest ship in regard to cargo capacity is the Krait Mk II, 230T, another multi-role ship that for the most part is the main rival for the Python. And the 3rd best cargo capacity we have the Krait Phantom at 190T. So we are now down to 2/3 of the Pythons max cargo capacity, so what kind of bonus would need to give to make other ships more "competitive" against a Python or even the Krait Mk II?
Python is also better than two of large ships in this regard, the Orca (194T) and Imperial Clipper (230T)...


So we are not talking about a small bonus here, as we would need to give atleast 30% bonus to make up for the difference... and that is not what I would call a small bonus...


So how would this bonus work? would you be able to stuff 30% more cargo in the Krait Phantom to make it "competitive"? that would make make more ships better suited to run missions in, as we can now stuff more mission cargo, but this makes no real sense, in how can a ship with smaller hull fit more inside?

So the other way we can add a bonus is to give it to us when we are selling stuff. , so if you run cargo with a Krait Phantom, you will get 30% better price. These kind of mechanics can of course be abused in various ways... So prone to be exploited.
Buy and store on a Fleet Carrier, repeat until enough cargo is stored, move Fleet Carrier and then fly back and forth to sell the cargo. The longer the distance between buy and sell the bigger the profit will be, as you can make so many shorter trips to/from your Fleet Carrier.
Use a second account, buy in small ship, drop off for big ship to pickup, when big ship is full, fly to destination, and repeat in reverse. and enjoy a hug pay bonus for the smaller ship selling the cargo. And this is make even better if we do not track that you bought it with the smaller ship to begin with.
And if we nerf the bonus if you swap ship, or it is transfered, then this would also have it its issues, lets say you are in your Krait Phantom, and a friend asks for help, and you just happens to have your combat trader Cutter, that is more than enough for the task, and have the needed cargo space, you swap ship, help your friend, swap back to the Krait Phantom and and now you bonus is lost! what! and not to mention what happens if your cargo is stolen by a pirate, hatch breaking limpet and then you manage to steal it back? There are so manyu issues with trying to track the cargo for the proper bonus to counter abuse, so it is more likely that it will fail anyway and thus be heavily exploited.


How would this look for Combat? Where player skill definitely comes into play, so how do we calculate the relative power of a "specialised" ship vs a ship like the Python? I would think that the Federal and Alliance ships are specialised combat ships. and yet, not even those ships are on equal footing with each other, just look at the Federal Dropship, Federal Assault Ship and Federal Gunship, they are not the same, as from a pure weapon power, the Federal Gunship has the best of these and it can also have a Ship Launched Fighter.
But we also know that Federal Assault Ship have been very popular becuase of its handling. So here is a ship with less firepower more popular, then its siblings. how do we rank handling? Some player with good skills can do amazing things with badly handling ships for example. So if we base any kind of bonus on these players, regular players would be better off using the "best" in class ship any day of the week. and if we base this bonus on the regular player, good players would get huge bonuses from this...



So I am very curious about this "bonus" and how it would work, as I would expect this be very abused...
 
That most commanders have a Python and a Conda does not mean those are the ships they fly the most.

They are good at some things, even the best, but certainly not at everything and definitely not without specialization in terms of loadout.
 
I don't understand your doubts, there are many reasons to specialise ships apart from performance/hour.
For me:

  • combat Corvette & Gunship
  • large landing transport Cutter
  • medium landing transport Python
  • explorers Phantom & ASPx
  • iCurier data
  • DBX bubble movement & guardians
  • Dolphin hacking
  • Chieftain & Challenger & Cruiser Targoids
  • Piracy Corvette & Python
  • Anaconda module storage 🤷‍♂️
o7
 
T

That's true, but I can use the Anaconda for pretty much everything else just by swapping modules. I don't need to grind for ranks / credits / material, I can spend a minute changing modules and I'm on my way.

Yea, but you said the Conda is better than the Vette at anything.
Well, it's not.

Vette is a better combat ship than the Conda (better defended, better maneuverability) and also the Vette is a better miner and a better trader than the Conda.
 
The conda is not better than the Vette at killing stuff. Not at all. It turns like a boat.
The Corvette is not that much better than the Conda at combat, the gap is not that wide. DPS, convergence, flexibility, jump range etc make them closer in capability.
 
Yea, but you said the Conda is better than the Vette at anything.
Well, it's not.

Vette is a better combat ship than the Conda (better defended, better maneuverability) and also the Vette is a better miner and a better trader than the Conda.
The Anaconda has better sized internals, better mix of weapons, better convergence, better jump range, isn't rank locked, with proper pip management keep up with a Corvette.
 
Virtually all of my 41 ships are specialized, Trade/Combat/explorer/racing and mulitpurpose. I treat a multipurpose as a specialist ship. The dedicated ships are better for some tasks whatever is generally thought. My Cutter for example can transport over 500t right through the middle of a pitched battle and still deliver. At the other end I have a ship that could fly to Beagle with ease and still put up serious combat at the end. It may not be necessary but it is nice to have ships dedicated to a purpose. They can make more money in the right conditions but that is not the only point to having them. Maybe its fun even.
 
The issue is there are very few external metrics that ships have to deal with. For example, because money is ubiquitous, repair costs are a non issue. It should be that utility ships like the T series are cheaper to repair than an a Dropship, making trading trips more about the total win / loss than just how much I can transport.
 
The Anaconda has better sized internals, better mix of weapons, better convergence, better jump range, isn't rank locked, with proper pip management keep up with a Corvette.

Some of those are really debatable.
  • Jump range doesnt matter much when we talk about combat nor when trading (usually trading is done in a 20ly range). Also range is not important for mining and have a carrier nearby.
  • better sized internals? Not for combat and not for trading/mining. The Vette can go with a size 7 shields and 2x size 7 SCB - RapidCharge on those SCB and they're virtually un-bankable
  • Convergence matters only if using fixed. In this case indeed Conda can put up a bit more DPS, but i'd say that's not enough to make up for the difference in shields+scb
  • else, the Vette has much more fire power in the upper arc (2x huge, 2x medium, 2x small versus 2x large and 2x medium) since the Conda has 1 huge, 1 large and 2x small underbelly) and a Vette can out-turn a Conda to keep out of the Conda's convergence sweet spot


Sure, Conda is more versatile and if flown by a better pilot it can easily kill any other ship. But that's on the pilots not on the ships.
Equally skilled pilots means that Vette will always have the upper hand vs the Conda.
 
That most commanders have a Python and a Conda does not mean those are the ships they fly the most.

They are good at some things, even the best, but certainly not at everything and definitely not without specialization in terms of loadout.
Sure but I haven’t flown either of them iin years I probably bought them well almost 7 years ago…okay I think I mined with my Python once earlier this year. They are just “got em! Ships. The Corvette is my last “need it” ship but my idea of “rank grinding” is just givung Feds at stations money “for the cause“so yeah my next rank will be many month from now. I’m definitely out of mats I used them all up on my Cutter and really don’t feel like doing that “grind!“ again so the Vette will probably just go on l trophy shelf” like pretty much I think the other 20 ships I own and never fly…
 
I mean, I have a Python. I've barely used it since I got a Krait MK2 though.

I also have an Anaconda, mostly because I like tinkering with ship builds, and it makes a decent testbed for new ideas. Don't fly it much, if at all these days.

For mediums I prefer the Krait MK2, Chieftain, Krait Phantom, Fer-De-Lance, and Mamba - depending on what I'm planning to do that game session.

I have all the large ships, but I mostly use the Cutter, Federal Corvette, or Orca, again depending on what I want to do. Sometimes I take one of the other ships out for a spin, but usually not for long.

For small ships, I have a mission runner Courier that I use a lot. It's fast, deadly, and has very good shields for its size. - My venerable Cobra MKIII also sees a lot of use, for the same reasons. Although sometimes I'll grab one of the eagles instead. Or one of the Vipers.

Honestly, I tend to fly whatever I want. Profit doesn't really factor into it, it's mostly about convenience, utility, and/or practicality. And that's why I never fly the Anaconda. And barely ever even remember that I have a Python.
 
Some of those are really debatable.
  • Jump range doesnt matter much when we talk about combat nor when trading (usually trading is done in a 20ly range). Also range is not important for mining and have a carrier nearby.
  • better sized internals? Not for combat and not for trading/mining. The Vette can go with a size 7 shields and 2x size 7 SCB - RapidCharge on those SCB and they're virtually un-bankable
  • Convergence matters only if using fixed. In this case indeed Conda can put up a bit more DPS, but i'd say that's not enough to make up for the difference in shields+scb
  • else, the Vette has much more fire power in the upper arc (2x huge, 2x medium, 2x small versus 2x large and 2x medium) since the Conda has 1 huge, 1 large and 2x small underbelly) and a Vette can out-turn a Conda to keep out of the Conda's convergence sweet spot


Sure, Conda is more versatile and if flown by a better pilot it can easily kill any other ship. But that's on the pilots not on the ships.
Equally skilled pilots means that Vette will always have the upper hand vs the Conda.
Jump range is important if you are doing combat, especially in features such as Powerplay where just moving about quickly is vital.

You waste less internal space in an Anaconda because it has a greater variety of internal sizes. The Corvette is built for shields only really, because otherwise you waste space on anything else.

The Corvette is flawed in that nearly all its weapons are on its ventral surface- if you flip it up you negate all that firepower easily. It only becomes a strength when the Corvettes shields are down and you can angle the bottom of the ship to take the missile fire.

For alpha strikes convergence matters- also a Corvette with gimbals is restricted to the upper arc without pitching, while an Anaconda has no such restriction. The hardpoint placement on an Anaconda also favours a greater spread of weapons too.
 
For alpha strikes convergence matters- also a Corvette with gimbals is restricted to the upper arc without pitching, while an Anaconda has no such restriction. The hardpoint placement on an Anaconda also favours a greater spread of weapons too.

In a pitching battle Conda has no chance.
Way more firepower for the Vette in the upper arc, where the target is kept in a pitching fight, and better turn rate for the Vette

And yes, shields are important.
Vette's 2x Size 7 SCB can field more than 6200MJ
While Conda can field at best 2x Size 6 for 3600MJ
Sure the conda might fit a 3rd size 6 SCB, but still wont make up those size 6 and a Vette can also fit a third size 6 SCB

In the end usually things are decided by the pilots skill, but pilots aside, Vette is the better combat ship.
 
In a pitching battle Conda has no chance.
Way more firepower for the Vette in the upper arc, where the target is kept in a pitching fight, and better turn rate for the Vette

And yes, shields are important.
Vette's 2x Size 7 SCB can field more than 6200MJ
While Conda can field at best 2x Size 6 for 3600MJ
Sure the conda might fit a 3rd size 6 SCB, but still wont make up those size 6 and a Vette can also fit a third size 6 SCB

In the end usually things are decided by the pilots skill, but pilots aside, Vette is the better combat ship.
For me when I go BGS murdering / missions, the opposite is true. In PvE at least even a mildly engineered Anaconda for me is better.

The thing is the Corvette is not that much better, say in comparison to the Cutter which is way faster, way more protected (but at the cost of agility). The Corvette should be the clear combat ship, the Anaconda the jack of all trades and the Cutter the trade king, but its not (hence why FD should have stuck to its guns with the original loadout).
 
I was discussing with a friend and we did some maths:

So, new question:
Why can I make 113M/hour doing Passenger Missions with a Python, but only 64M/hour using a Beluga?

"But you're supposed to use luxury cabins and do long range missions, that's the differential"
I did that. Took me a bunch of board flipping to fill my missions with passengers wanting to go to Sag. A, all paying extremely well, of course.
In the time it took me to go there and come back, even after selling exploration data, I could've made with the Python (in the same time frame that trip took to be completed) whopping 1.7B.

Assuming both are engineered, if I decide to do something else, combat for example, I can swap my Python internals and I'm good to go in a few minutes, buuuuut I can't fight on a Beluga (I'm not THAT guy), so I have to get another ship and outfit / engineer it for combat.

So again, why does a ship made for passenger missions make so much less money doing what it was made for than a ship that can be fitted to do basically anything?
Exactly as in real life. You make billions on selling paints online and millions selling real jewelries.
Life/world is weird place.
 
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