Powerplay SNIPING in Powerplay
- Thread starter chagnampra
- Start date
To be fair, while I agree with you that this issue is relevant to every power, it's far more relevant to powers that didn't already adapt to the sniping system (namely the princesses). For pirates, Alliance, Winters and perhaps Torval to an extent this change wouldn't amount to much.
I'm more concerned about the fact that 5th columning and counter-5th columning are ridiculously effective tactics, to a point that you could far better support your own power by being pledged to an opposing power.. And yet, FD is willing to completely ignore this aspect of powerplay. Not that I really blame them, since with their limited resources/competency I really don't see how they would be able to address this issue.
Technical limitations of a 30 year old obsolete architecture.
EDIT: To be perfectly honest, it'd be possible, but gains don't justify the investment.
Last edited:
Not buying that. The client reports destruction of a bond-worthy ship to the transaction server, there's no reason the transaction server couldn't immediately report this to the power play server.
Because then you'll end up with really odd situations where the undermining for a particular systems suddenly takes a massive dip, because a wing was destroyed while carrying a several thousand merits worth of undermining for the system.
Or a different kind of sniping - you undermine all of a power's systems. Now they fortify everything, but you don't turn in any of your merits. The power now ends up with a massive CC surplus, and they are unable to effectively control which systems they end up preparing, which can be even more damaging than being put into turmoil for a single cycle.
Well, that just makes undermining and combat expansions even more powerful, because now there's no transit time involved at all. If you're already at 10k merits, why bother going back to a control system dozens of jumps away, when you can just keep undermining until the cycle end? To balance that out you'd need to make it unnecessary to hand in fortification merits - just pick them up and they should count right away too. Which would make powerplay even more pointless than it already is.
A) It's not an issue, it's a mechanic.
B) It does affect all the powers, but I only see one power complaining about it while multiple other powers like it.
I respectfully disagree. I don't see how it affects any powers? I think if you play PP badly this is a side affect. As stated before it simply doesn't affect you at all if you're already strategically working towards solving the problem. ALD has the player base to fortify every single one of her systems if she wishes but is either:
1) Too lazy to do so
2) Too uncoordinated to do so
3) Too arrogant to do so
I don't know which?
Of course it's more difficult to organize such a large player base but the answer to that should be more in game coordinating skills not an overhaul of a system that allows more strategic diversity.
Again. I don't think there's a bias per se - I just think empire has a larger power base so their problems are heard quicker. But this certainly isn't a mechanic problem it's a power problem. Add to that the fact that many ALD reddit organizers want turmoil because they want to shed systems and I don't see the problem.
I suggested that a while ago
I see no reason why cashing in your merits effects the war. The Ships were destroyed, whether the HQ is informed of that or not doesn't matter.
Just update the totals when they happen, but don't give the player their own personal merits until they cash them in.
If a player dies they lose their merits, this shouldn't in any way mean the ships that player destroyed are magically back, as it does with the current system.
You raised an issue that just effected ALD, whether you are currently pledged to ALD doesn't show there is or is not an imperial bias.
Please show everyone when there was a Dev comment of a bug, or situation happening to anyone but Aisling or ALD.
I can only think of one, and that was in relation to a bug that Archon and Antal have faced (and its a problem for all minor factions throughout the galaxy) with not being able to create combat zones in systems that have no planets.
This comment was made 11 or more weeks after the bug was reported.
This. All fighting ethos should work the same. Count the vouchers separately as the pilots personal gain and recognition.
Hi you only need 10000 the first week, then only 5000 per week to maintain. I know people with daytime jobs and a family who do this, but they don't do much else
5 hours of work in a good wing.
I completely agree that 5th columnists are proving to be the primary way some CMDRs / powers choose to play the game and it is extremely hard to counter this offensive. I'm not sure what can be done to balance this Powerplay 'mechanic', but it makes preparations and expansions a constant headache. Mahon, for example, is being currently targeted by saboteurs every cycle at the moment. I'm sure other powers are as well. Some Mahon players apparently defected to Archon Delaine just to counter-prepare a bad system, so it could be opposed at the expansion stage! But even this couldn't stop another bad system (one jump from Gateway - Hooriyan, I think) being prepared and that is now impossible to oppose in it's expansion, without resorting to turmoil again.
Whether this is legitimate gameplay or not is for FD to decide, but it sure is effective; and, again, it is almost always used in the final hours of a cycle. It would be nice if there was a way to mount an effective defense against THIS activity. I did state this in the OP, incidentally.
Let's leave it to FD to decide what is an 'issue' and what is a 'mechanic', then - shall we? Not so long ago, some people claimed that jumping to SC and back out again to instantly restore shields was a legitimate mechanic. FD targeted it as an issue and it has since been changed.
Likewise, FD are currently looking at this 'mechanic' and are in the process of deciding whether or not it is an issue which needs addressing. Hopefully, they will also look at the way PP is going with respect to 5th columning too. I'm not suggesting Powers can't snipe, undermine or 5th column to their hearts' content. I'm only proposing that the effectiveness of these activities be balanced with ANY power's need to prepare, expand and fortify systems.
I read a blog article relating to my work, over breakfast this morning. The opening was quite pertinent:
(source: http://codeoncanvas.com/5-important-security-measures-every-web-developer-should-know-and-use/)
This is a bit like teaching your granny to suck eggs (a peculiar Scottish idiom perhaps), but basically... stating the obvious, but something perhaps forgotten.
An alternative hypothesis to "Empire Bias" is "Causal Bias". Assuming that there are more "casual" players in ALD because it's generally perceived as easy-mode to gain credits, ALD players fit with F: Dev's increasingly "casual friendly" approach to Elite Dangerous. They should, in equal measure, be creating parts of the sandpit universe for hardcore players. Again, stating the obvious, but I feel that F: Dev have lost their way here. From creating a lush, deep and involved simulation, to creating a mechanic that further alienates hardcore players who enjoy the limited amount of depth that is available. If my hypothesis has any validity, then F: Dev really need to decide. So many of their decisions suggest that they are happy with a game that they want to play, and understand, rather than to create a sandpit that allows players to come up with novel means to bend it.
(source: http://codeoncanvas.com/5-important-security-measures-every-web-developer-should-know-and-use/)
This is a bit like teaching your granny to suck eggs (a peculiar Scottish idiom perhaps), but basically... stating the obvious, but something perhaps forgotten.
An alternative hypothesis to "Empire Bias" is "Causal Bias". Assuming that there are more "casual" players in ALD because it's generally perceived as easy-mode to gain credits, ALD players fit with F: Dev's increasingly "casual friendly" approach to Elite Dangerous. They should, in equal measure, be creating parts of the sandpit universe for hardcore players. Again, stating the obvious, but I feel that F: Dev have lost their way here. From creating a lush, deep and involved simulation, to creating a mechanic that further alienates hardcore players who enjoy the limited amount of depth that is available. If my hypothesis has any validity, then F: Dev really need to decide. So many of their decisions suggest that they are happy with a game that they want to play, and understand, rather than to create a sandpit that allows players to come up with novel means to bend it.
Last edited:
I suggested that a while ago
I see no reason why cashing in your merits effects the war. The Ships were destroyed, whether the HQ is informed of that or not doesn't matter.
Just update the totals when they happen, but don't give the player their own personal merits until they cash them in.
If a player dies they lose their merits, this shouldn't in any way mean the ships that player destroyed are magically back, as it does with the current system.
A simpler, more equal fix that should get traction.
I suggested that a while ago
I see no reason why cashing in your merits effects the war. The Ships were destroyed, whether the HQ is informed of that or not doesn't matter.
Just update the totals when they happen, but don't give the player their own personal merits until they cash them in.
If a player dies they lose their merits, this shouldn't in any way mean the ships that player destroyed are magically back, as it does with the current system.
+1: a great solution- just decouple the reward from the effect. Hopefully this will be put in, as its the best solution I've heard so far.
Last edited:
It was suggested a while ago so we will see.
Fingers crossed.
While we are at it, colour code the undermining bar with the colours of the powers undermining you.
If FD hand-holds and coddles powers by telling them what systems are being undermined in such a pre-school fashion, there won't be any strategy left to powerplay fortifications and undermining. The problems arise when people would rather be told how to play a game instead of playing the game themselves. It should take some planning and coordination to fortify important systems. Likewise it should take some planning and coordination to undermine important systems.
Talk about missing the point.
Haku
Talk about missing the point.
Haku
@Sandro,
The easiest fix to this is to simply use the fact that merits are counted towards a player as both "Effect" and "Reward" merits. This is a clear and obvious solution given that a recent patch/dev note indicated that merits are tallied separately, it just so happens that when they increased combat merits both values were increased to match to each other.
We need "Effect" merits to immediately take affect, and be non-reversible. It makes absolutely no sense that another power could kill hundreds of a factions ships with them having no idea that these ships went missing. Not in the day and age of Elite and the technology available. It makes no sense.
Further, putting an arbitrary limit on how many merits a single pilot can carry only serves to muddy the situation more, as then only large player groups can snipe effectively, leaving smaller player groups in the dust. This would only increase the problems with sniping further.
There's also an issue that combat players can't fortify their own systems through combat (seriously, please get this enabled. I want to play for my faction as a patrol/defense pilot and I get absolutely no reward for doing so. It's rubbish.)
As it stands right now, being pledged to LYR and being one of the major fortifiers that helped push our power up... I've lost all satisfaction with powerplay and am now bored. Fortification was mostly solo. Defense consists of slaughtering any "hostile" commander with a bounty with no actual idea if they undermined my power or not. We simply do not have the tools for powerplay to be... Powerplay.
Absolutely agree.