So where do RP bad guys stand?

True but because they have to answer in hard code, it's not an easy trick for devs to keep up with shifting sands, whims and global trends of players, all at the same time. Stuff like this will help to inform devs of how to get the game to police itself but it's a truism that experience is what you get always right after you needed it! People joked about stranding people with carriers in beta .. but the specifics, of how players were recruited to the slave ships is only obvious now, after the event.

Also to be fair the two examples you give don't really compare with each other, either .. the first group (who were helped) were explorers whose position was given away by community management who joined the expedition, live streamed it, gave it a profile. The second group (who weren't helped) were slavers, which is illegal under all jurisdiction except anarchy and there's no evidence to suggest noobs were only recruited from anarchy systems. Meta version yes (dev magic) but they received a .. police response.
I think you pointed out the issue there in your response.

People joked about stranding people with carriers in the beta.

As a multiplayer game developer, it is your responsibility to anticipate how your mechanics will be used or abused. If it was common knowledge that stranding was possible with FCs, a remedy mechanic should be built in. It boggles my mind how the stranding possibility wasn't considered in the design phase of the game feature.

Years ago, ganking was seen as such a significant issue that a brand new C&P with "hot ships" and "ATR" was developed as a patched response. In a game with vastly asymmetric gearing capacities, and no pve pvp open partitioning, the developer is so "surprised" that ganking is an issue they have to develop brand new mechanics to try to address it. Really? 20 years of MMOs paved the road on how to integrate socialization and pvp into a successful game experience.

FDEV isn't poor. They can afford to hire a few Harry Wizard's during the design phase to explain how a game feature will be exploited, or used to grief other players. FDEV then needs to build the appropriate mechanics up front to diminish the impact of those mechanics applications.

Slapping a penalty on people that paid for the game, but used the mechanics of the game as it is designed, with the side note of external communications about in game events informing the decision to ban the players is not what I would call best game design practice.
 
The whole issue is being promoted on out of game media. The whole thing. I don't really understand what I am supposed to say to you here?

At the end of the day a simple self destruct should have sufficed given the ED is actually NOT A WALK IN AND PLAY GAME.

Whose parents' would encourage a kid to play ED except those who were prepared to spend time explaining ED? Really?
So JKY is the best gameplay mechanic remedy to being stranded on an FC?

Hmmm. Maybe I am asking too much, but there should be better options given that you can transport an 1100 ton Cutter 100,000 + light years, but you can't transport a noob 800 light years.
 
"Slapping a penalty on people that paid for the game, but used the mechanics of the game as it is designed, with the side note of external communications about in game events informing the decision to ban the players is not what I would call best game design practice."

I can't argue with that.

"They can afford to hire a few Harry Wizard's during the design phase to explain how a game feature will be exploited, or used to grief other players."

I can argue with this though. No one was griefed.
 
So JKY is the best gameplay mechanic remedy to being stranded on an FC?

Hmmm. Maybe I am asking too much, but there should be better options given that you can transport an 1100 ton Cutter 100,000 + light years, but you can't transport a noob 800 light years.
Where has it been said that noobs can't be transported 800 lys?
 
If you allow your kid to play a game where slavery is a possible career choice what does that really say about you as a parent?
If you're an adult, you should have the ability to research basic information relating to things in life.

Very very few people seem to take responsibility for their own actions these days. Always someone else's fault.

This goes for Fdev too, you have a game with slavery in it then punish players for something allowed in your own game. Because humans in today's society overreacted to this like they do most everything. Sorry but in my opinion the players were playing within the scope of the game. And this is an overreaction to an overreaction.
 
If you allow your kid to play a game where slavery is a possible career choice what does that really say about you as a parent?
I'd clarify; if you allow your kid to play a game where slavery is a possible career choice, but are going to pull the "Kid Card" if someone messes with your kid, then what does that really say about you as a parent.

I've talked about "hot topics" with minors demonstrating intelligence and maturity well beyond many adults before...
 
We should start a petition to remove from the game:

-- Animal Meat (replace with Tofu)
-- Imperial Slaves (replace with Imperial Flowers)
-- Slaves (replace with Flowers)
-- Narcotics
-- Etienne asking for Occupied Pods (he may have 25 Coffee instead)

Time to slowly make ED a safe and secure place for all ("ES").
o7
 
Slapping a penalty on people that paid for the game, but used the mechanics of the game as it is designed, with the side note of external communications about in game events informing the decision to ban the players is not what I would call best game design practice.

Word is though the ban has a lot to do with breaches of "community rules" with the content of the discord discussions, beside direct comms organising the gank including swasticas, apparently. A bit like a gentleman's "your money or your life" piracy vs KOS ganking .. both use the mechanics of the game but only one is in the spirit of it and the other becomes bullying if targetted, consistently at an individual say.

Luckily FDev don't use testers like that but though the possibility of stranding was discussed in beta, how best to address it is less obvious. Use a training mission? Add a warning to blurb at loading screen? Galnet article? Or flash up a warning message each and every time you dock??

The point is - while you can be as rich as you like development wise - code changes can have knock on effects and some of this is the human equation.
 
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I wonder if half the issue is a total lack of "bad guy" activities, regardless of being for PvP or PvE.

Smuggling's busted, as is megaship looting, antagonistic behaviours are hard to find/do and simply not rewarding (e.g smuggling missions reward substantially less than a legal counterpart, and spec ops missions are less difficult, more just annoying and timewasting, and not able to be stacked like lawful massacres), piracy (whether PvP or PvE) is just bad full stop, hostile rep is a dead-end situation, and anonymous protocols are inconsistently applied.

It's no wonder people seeking the "bad guy" route need to resolve themselves to obtuse behaviours.
 
As far as I can see, as long as everyone involved understands what's going on, you can do whatever you want and play "evil" however you like. Shooting ships is part of the game.
But when you start to lie and lead people to exploit them, then it's crossing the line.

You can tell some slow kid that unless he will be working for you an hour every day cleaning your driveway, his mother will leave him. Later, when caught after abaout year, you can say this was all a joke, a prank, and any intelligent person should know that. Yet you've benefited from this situation, exploiting that kid. Anyone who would allow that would be equally quilty. The fact that you would do something like that in game doesn't matter - it's the same as exploiting people ion RL.
That's basically what was going on with those "slavers". They were fishing for vulnerable targets to use them.
 
As far as I can see, as long as everyone involved understands what's going on, you can do whatever you want and play "evil" however you like. Shooting ships is part of the game.
But when you start to lie and lead people to exploit them, then it's crossing the line.
This is why I find the EVE community so much better than Elite's.

Ganking? Scamming? That's just the done thing. You're not a sociopath, you're just playing the game by the same rules everyone else is.

Here though? It still varies user to user whether causing a lockdown at a station is just playing the game or punishable griefing. It's so bizzare.
 
This is why I find the EVE community so much better than Elite's.
I guess that's one way of looking at it.

I've never touched it because the game community seems rather toxic at parts. Probably because of the greater degree of player to player interaction and many players spending incredibly long hours playing the game. I've played a number of games like that and it just tires me down to dodge all those yalki palki Russian cheese clanners and whatnot.

I entirely understand why people like that kind of gloves off stuff tho.
 
I guess that's one way of looking at it.

I've never touched it because the game community seems rather toxic at parts. Probably because of the greater degree of player to player interaction and many players spending incredibly long hours playing the game. I've played a number of games like that and it just tires me down to dodge all those yalki palki Russian cheese clanners and whatnot.

I entirely understand why people like that kind of gloves off stuff tho.
By contrast, I play solo almost exclusively here, because there's simply a lack of necessary variety in defence options... tl;dr being the "sheep" to the wolves in EVE is fun, and boring in Elite, but I digress.

I think all games have their headline "toxic" moments, and in my opinion, Elite and EVE are about even in that regard. But like I was alluding to, many people view, say, ganking as "toxic behaviour" here in Elite... in EVE, it's just status-quo gameplay. If a typical Elite player got ganked in EVE, they'd go post about how toxic it is back on the Elite boards. If a typical EVE player got ganked in Elite, they'd shrug and get on with the game[1].

For me, it's all about how you handle yourself outwardly to other players, not what you do within the realms of legitimate mechanics, and I have a very dim view of those who try and press "unwritten rules" onto others[2].

[1] Actually, maybe not all, but hey, exceptions are on both sides of the fence too.
[2] I remember a time I played puzzle pirates... there's a puzzle-bobble competitive game in it. I'd played it before, but couldn't remember my account, and had experience playing. I decided to take on a high-ranked player (and since this was a fresh account, I had no rank), and proceeded to completely blitz them. Enter a huge amount of vitriol because I'd "deliberately kept my rank low to troll high ranking players", as such a loss hit their rank hard. But really, what else am I meant to do?
 
Well it seems Bad RP is banned. The only thing that matters to FDEV is to protect the special snowflakes around. About the "slavers", the only really interesting player interaction in a long time, are obvious bad people and ofc are racists, sexists and pedophile to name but a few.... Modern day witch hunts fueled by spinnless people, sad how low ED has become.
 
Well it seems Bad RP is banned. The only thing that matters to FDEV is to protect the special snowflakes around. About the "slavers", the only really interesting player interaction in a long time, are obvious bad people and ofc are racists, sexists and pedophile to name but a few.... Modern day witch hunts fueled by spinnless people, sad how low ED has become.
Can you define what "bad RP" is, and give a source where FD say it's banned?
 
Well it seems Bad RP is banned. The only thing that matters to FDEV is to protect the special snowflakes around. About the "slavers", the only really interesting player interaction in a long time, are obvious bad people and ofc are racists, sexists and pedophile to name but a few.... Modern day witch hunts fueled by spinnless people, sad how low ED has become.
I don't actually see that as being the case. To pare back all my EVE talk before to the point of it all; it's not what you do in the game, it's how you conduct yourself. Ganking someone is fine... ganking someone and DMing them with "IN YOUR FACE YOU GODDAMN NOOB, GO BACK TO YOUR MOM" is griefing (to me).

This whole "Slaver boat" thing? Overall alright in my books, but the snippets of the conduct around it that I'm seeing? I suspect that if a ban's happened, there's way more going on under the hood than we're privvy to.
 
Well for “bad” RP for me, it really depends. The FC slaver thing should have been better covered on how and what a FC could actually do(and how the hell do those players are willing to install a tiny crap FSD I have no idea why, I mean, get the best equip or go home?)

PVP RP piracy? well if you are going to gank at least say something witty or something. that said when I’m doing the mining CG for eurbyia, a actual player pirate Intidiced me, and instead of shooting me outright, asked for some cargo In the most sterotypical age of sail pirate way.
 
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