Star Citizen Discussion Thread v11

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Exact quote from DB about Elite 4 / Dangerous:
I have wanted to do a sequel for a long time, and there has been 'skunk-works' development, on and off for quite some time, but full on development is mostly since (and somewhat during) the Kickstarter campaign.
Which places the actual project start at the end of 2012, quite parallel (give or take one month) with SC actual start at CiG.

(Edit) as a lead dev / architect myself: i do work on "skunk works" stuff all the time between actual projects. These are definitely not counted (as for invoicing) towards these project dev time, and sometimes are totally discarded or modified enough so their initial intent is lost.
 
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Braben himself confirmed in 2008 that the tech for Elite 4 was almost done.

I don't think anyone doubts that the Cobra engine is proprietary and has been in development for a long time. SC chose to buy CryEngine to short circuit that overhead. So comparing the two is a bit apples vs pears tbh.

Worthy of note hiwever is that DBOBE is on record as saying that the crowd funder was there to gauge the level of interest in a new Elite game, and only provided part of the funding, prior to development staring in earnest. E.g. the video he sat in front of was a working proof of concept. Unlike Genuine Cobblers. I know which approach I prefer.

The issue is that no matter how you cut it, things don't look good. It's now 2020, some 300M$ later, and still no published games. No-one here will be happy about this given we're all space game enthusiasts, and I'm sure we'd all be delighted if CIG released anything close to the original pitch - on the assumption of course that it's half way decent.

In the mean time, let's all just stay safe, wash our hands, and use hand lotion.
 
Justifying pace, progress and marketing of SC is actually (in my opinion) very harmful to KS and space genre and can give VERY wrong ideas to other developers. I do know about game development, I do know how long it takes for many other AAA games to get made and I`m still calling SC and CGI full of donkey doodles to put it nicely. If this is how games supposed to be make then... horror, the horror.

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I'd have to disagree. With the exception of the SC fan base, I'd say gamers in the industry have now become savvy (and cynical) about opening their purses to any more "too good to be true" KS dream games. Games like Clang and Yogventures which behaved a lot like SC in its infancy days. But failed due to lack of time and fanatic fan base dedication. Necessary criteria to sustain their ability to thrive in a perpetual pre alpha state. And especially the likes of Con Man Ken, who appears to be Chris's more ambitious doppelganger Pencil Dice at 14:40 is pure gold. Chris could NEVER top selling something like that to the backers :LOL:


IMO D20 Entertainment >> CI +/- G any day of the week :geek:
 
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Hope you then agree about the silliness of that line of logic. Otherwise we would then also probably need to ammend most multiple sequel franchise games (and probably many one offs too) development times by even decades in some cases, which is a bit nonsensical.

A more reasonable way to ascertain the start of a development is the moment when you have a sanctioned budget assigned to a related and specific work plan and you start employing those resources. I think we can also probably agree that moment happened around the 2011-2012 timeframe for both SC and ED, give or take a few months.

I do agree with the line of logic. However I don't agree with this idea that somehow Chris Roberts is a 'bad person' for doing the exact same as Braben, who gets revered as some sort of living god, when both did this (and additionally share a lot of parallels in terms of delivering the goods when it comes to fulfilling original promises).

Particularly when there's plenty of reasonable reasons to throw dislike at Chris Roberts for, this starts to feel like barrel-scraping.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I do agree with the line of logic. However I don't agree with this idea that somehow Chris Roberts is a 'bad person'...

Glad we agree. Also notice I did not discuss any issue relative to bad or good persons. Only highlighting how silly it is to refer to those links as start of development for SC (or ED).

Both SC and ED started development around the 2011-2012 timeframe. The similarities stop there really, let´s look at the differences: One was released after 2 years, was subjected to official and unofficial industry and market critiques and reviews, survived the process financially reasonably well and grew further releasing additional expansions based on its own funding and own risk. The other one has not only not released a single product yet after 8-9 years but it is still relying on the good will and funds of the market placing all the risk of delivery squarely on us.
 
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Glad we agree. Also notice I did not discuss any issue relative to bad or good persons. Only highlighting how silly is to refer to those links as start of development for SC (or ED).

Both SC and ED started development around the 2011-2012 timeframe. One was released after 2 years, was subjected to official and unofficial industry and market critiques and reviews, survived the process financially reasonably well and grew further based on its own funding and own risk. The other one has not only not released any product yet but it is still relying on the good will and funds of the market placing all the risk squarely on us.

I'm going with the general attitude that most of these conversations end up going down when anyone who comes in here posts something contrary to the Star Citizen/Chris Roberts 'bad', Elite Dangerous/Braben 'Good' dogma this thread and it's previous incarnations have.

Its much like the (slight side bar) way that if someone compares Elite (or its development) in a positive manner to Star Citizen, and all will sit around the campfire nodding sagely and discussing the merits of that persons post.

Draw a similarity which suggests the opposite however, and that poster will be drowned in report button mashing and frothing 'Do not discuss other games' type rhetoric.
 
I'm going with the general attitude that most of these conversations end up going down when anyone who comes in here posts something contrary to the Star Citizen/Chris Roberts 'bad', Elite Dangerous/Braben 'Good' dogma this thread and it's previous incarnations have.


Saying ED bad = fine. Saying it in the many many sub-forums about ED = better. Saying 'ED bad, therefore SC good' = a frequent form of tedious whataboutery which gets visited upon the thread. If it gets pointed out that a parallel between SC and ED is crap (as with Ash here recently), that is not the same as saying 'ED = good'. It's just saying that the parallel is crap...
 
I do agree with the line of logic. However I don't agree with this idea that somehow Chris Roberts is a 'bad person' for doing the exact same as Braben, who gets revered as some sort of living god, when both did this (and additionally share a lot of parallels in terms of delivering the goods when it comes to fulfilling original promises).

Particularly when there's plenty of reasonable reasons to throw dislike at Chris Roberts for, this starts to feel like barrel-scraping.
Perhaps all this salt and pepper shade is directed at CR because

1. Braben/FDev at some 2 yr+ and original KS budget of some £8M actually exited KS status. By passing the ultimate milestone of actually releasing a game? More specifically, multiple update releases to a proven concept, working space genre game in addition to multiple other popular, non space genre titles (the likes of Planet Zoo, Roller Coaster Tycoon series etc.) to date. Particularly since said space genre game has matured to the extent where its fan base can consistently laud/malign its features (or lack there of) on this forum. And especially since Braben is planning (what is hopefully) a radical update sometime later this year (i.e. FCs, base building, potential space legs etc.)?

Meanwhile,

2. Chris/CI +/-G at some 8 yr+ and original KS budget of some £53M (now surpassing £250M+) later still be like......

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Saying ED bad = fine. Saying it in the many many sub-forums about ED = better. Saying 'ED bad, therefore SC good' = a frequent form of tedious whataboutery which gets visited upon the thread. If it gets pointed out that a parallel between SC and ED is crap (as with Ash here recently), that is not the same as saying 'ED = good'. It's just saying that the parallel is crap...
Wait, what? You’re too involved man. Elite is not a bad game, well anyway, I never said so (eventhough I got a bit bored with it a few years ago, but to each his taste). I was just pointing out that elite has been a lot longer in developement than a lot here seem to aknowledge. Now, we all now the opinions in that here, so, whatever.
 
Wait, what? You’re too involved man. Elite is not a bad game, well anyway, I never said so (eventhough I got a bit bored with it a few years ago, but to each his taste). I was just pointing out that elite has been a lot longer in developement than a lot here seem to aknowledge. Now, we all now the opinions in that here, so, whatever.
Elite is Elite and SC is SC, and they stand separate, neither being impacted or effected by the other.
 
I was just pointing out that elite has been a lot longer in developement than a lot here seem to aknowledge. Now, we all now the opinions in that here, so, whatever.


We all know and acknowledge the evidence here, yes. That Elite 4's on/off skunkworks, while lengthy, are wildly different from SC's prolonged, dubiously monetised, production phase. You still struggle with this, and would like to infer some kind of parity. You are welcome to your incredibly wayward opinion ;)
 
I was just pointing out that elite has been a lot longer in developement than a lot here seem to aknowledge.
Facts first. If you count the development on the core engine, so Cobra engine for Elite, in the dev time, then you have to count the time spent by Crytek on CryEngine. Which is utterly silly at this point it's a peeing contest.
Both projects officially started with their own kickstarter, around the same time frame, as confirmed either by insiders in the case of CiG, or by the CEO himself in the case of FDev. What else do you need ? These are not opinions, these are facts...
Also, that tactics of yours is called "whataboutism". It's a ploy to derail an argument towards another unrelated target. And as Agony_Aunt just said they are quite unrelated as this is NOT a zero-sum equation, both were started at the same time not stealing resources or even audience from each other, since one of them is still unreleased.
 
Dude, 11 threads of the same thing is called whining.

The fact that you think the 11 threads are "the same" and label it "whining" just states perfectly clear where you are coming from my dude :) The "I am in for serious chat" comment was a nice funny but utterly unbelievable when you push your narrative so hard.

....and still no release, and absolutely no trace of SQ42.

Great.

Yeah...I mean....ELEVEN threads didnt pop up over night. It took almost EIGHT years to fill em. Now with that little context 11 threads aint really that much. I mean hardly any other game has had such a long development time in which even the simplest things were vague or unclear to allow people to fight over absolutely ridiculous things. And I dont really see that coming to an end either. Like throughout the last few years, one white knight will make an appearance and explode the page count again, regurgitating the same old stuff because he never cared to read any of the previous iterations. Its part of the ongoing entertainment value this deadbeat project provides even when failing ^^


Play something else in the meanwhile, or do something productive in life, what can I say?

Oh or hmmm...let people decide themselves what they want to do with their time? SC fans seem to claim this right very vigorously when it comes to money spending. The ongoing problem is that many SC shills continue to declare Star Citizens superiority over other games so its really not a surprise when that invites reactions and discussions and as only half of the participants wear the rose tinted goggles or chuck the koolaid its also no surprise that actual reviews of the project have shifted from "hopeful" to "worrying" and this there are only ever "hit pieces" floating around anymore. The world really must feel threatened by SCs development. I dont know how but thats the usual line of reasoning I get from the....more involved people


'm going with the general attitude that most of these conversations end up going down when anyone who comes in here posts something contrary to the Star Citizen/Chris Roberts 'bad', Elite Dangerous/Braben 'Good' dogma this thread and it's previous incarnations have.

Yeah Star Citizen will have an absolute TERRIBLE day when it releases you know. Its pretty strange that the whole world seems to hate this project whenever you look outside the echo chambers. I mean I would call it "deserved criticism and actual evaluation of current performance mectrics" but these things are usually combined under "hate" by the folks. I came to the conclusion that only people of a certain...errr... faction as well as newcomers who never cared to read the threads call it "SC bad, ED good dogma" or similar because their chosen baby got roasted. I seem to remember that certain qualities of SC...the few it actually has were credited and accepted. Its just that the cons outnumber the pros so heavily that somebody who doesnt understand how the result is coming together would think its "unfair" that SC gets blasted...doesnt change that pretty much every point is justified and deserved. Of course the list of apologies and excuses is miles long and becomes pretty ridiculous especially as most of the tolerance and acceptance is one-sided in favor of Star Citizen but other companies doing the same receive no pardon.


I knew I was in for a treat when the page count exploded upon loading the site :) I wasnt disappointed ^^
 
Yeah Star Citizen will have an absolute TERRIBLE day when it releases you know. Its pretty strange that the whole world seems to hate this project whenever you look outside the echo chambers. I mean I would call it "deserved criticism and actual evaluation of current performance mectrics" but these things are usually combined under "hate" by the folks. I came to the conclusion that only people of a certain...errr... faction as well as newcomers who never cared to read the threads call it "SC bad, ED good dogma" or similar because their chosen baby got roasted. I seem to remember that certain qualities of SC...the few it actually has were credited and accepted. Its just that the cons outnumber the pros so heavily that somebody who doesnt understand how the result is coming together would think its "unfair" that SC gets blasted...doesnt change that pretty much every point is justified and deserved. Of course the list of apologies and excuses is miles long and becomes pretty ridiculous especially as most of the tolerance and acceptance is one-sided in favor of Star Citizen but other companies doing the same receive no pardon.

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I knew I was in for a treat when the page count exploded upon loading the site :) I wasnt disappointed ^^

0/10 MTBFritz post.

Treatise didn't cover the whole of one page of the thread.
 
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