Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Ronzer said:
Sounds like a limitation, to me. So SC is limiting gameplay environment? Then they are, of course, making gameplay choices. That's good, but as I said before, by the time its released, it'll have the same gameplay as EDO..they're just going to take 40 more years to get there, removing this and that to get it to work, since they can milk it longer without admitting that. (the scam)

This dropping a limitted number of items, which probably has a time limit as well, reminds me of SRV tracks on a planet, or in other driving games. The wheels leave tracks, but only for a certain distance. In the past it used to be short, and you could watch it like a snake, but nowadays those tracks can be quite long. Havent checked if they're persistent.
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Tempted to reply, but don't want to drag this thread into another ED vs SC discussion.

Instead i'll post some cat media.

giphy.gif
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
VR Golgot said:
New ship…
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6 Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6/anvil_legionnaire_price_tag/


New controversy…
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6/_/i98c4y1 Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6/anvil_legionnaire_price_tag/i98c4y1/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6/_/i97wb0d Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ut6sk6/anvil_legionnaire_price_tag/i97wb0d/
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That's..... that's an Alliance Crusader.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Intrepid3D said:
The point of it is when i get home and i take my gun off my back and place it randomly on the table it will always be there until i pick it up again.
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VR Golgot said:
Just what every poorly performing MMO needs ;)

It sounds lovely and immersive. But it wouldn’t be an almighty shock if, in 5 years time, CIG decide this whole persistent world item malarky is daft and cull it to dust ;). Leaving Chris's many years of bigging it up as transformative release tech look pretty bizarre.
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It's good to see that that Chris Roberts is using the latest poor MMO ideas from 1996... good lord, The Realm is still online??? 🤯
 

Ronzer

Ronzer
Intrepid3D said:
Same gameplay as EDO? You don't play Star Citizen do you? And why do we always go back to comparing SC to EDO? they are not comparable, they are space games but that is where the similarity ends.
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Im not comparing, at all. My point is that to a large extent what players are wanting, and what these games are trying to achieve, is similar. Not fully in scope, but I mean in general...they both want to have as many players as possible doing as much game stuff as possible. Many games want that. But one of them has made something working/workable and the other is still in a dream state. As reality hits the SC dream, they will remove stuff, change how things are acheived, and making it workable...and those aspects will be end up being more and more like EDO. My underlying point being EDO is as good as it gets. Dont like that? Too bad.

This is just a prediction for the next 20-40 years, I guess.
 

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Ronzer said:
Im not comparing, at all. My point is that to a large extent what players are wanting, and what these games are trying to achieve, is similar. Not fully in scope, but I mean in general...they both want to have as many players as possible doing as much game stuff as possible. Many games want that. But one of them has made something working/workable and the other is still in a dream state. As reality hits the SC dream, they will remove stuff, change how things are acheived, and making it workable...and those aspects will be end up being more and more like EDO. My underlying point being EDO is as good as it gets. Dont like that? Too bad.

This is just a prediction for the next 20-40 years, I guess.
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If you're not interested in a true MP experience and extremely detailed AAA graphics, full and fully usable live-in ship interiors independently of what the ship is doing, properly populated planets with weather and biom systems.....if you ignore that, yeah if you're really not interested at all EDO is as good as it gets.
 

thistle

T
I was watching DeadlySlob today on twitch, a very good streamer for those who don't know him, mostly Tarkov, plus a few other games.

He loves SC but in small doses, plays with another streamer Pepp, once every new patch. Usually ends up with them laughing uncontrollably at the bugs or one of their characters faceplanting trying to run up a ramp.

His prediction today when asked by chat (he was playing Stalker Anomaly not SC) was 2030 at the earliest for a release, just based on how it's not a game.

This is why this is funny:
Intrepid3D said:
If you're not interested in a true MP experience and extremely detailed AAA graphics, full and fully usable live-in ship interiors independently of what the ship is doing, properly populated planets with weather and biom systems.....if you ignore that, yeah if you're really not interested at all EDO is as good as it gets.
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because YES, it has "true" MP, yes it has some quite good graphics, it has ship interiors. But it's not a game.

And it won't be. It's not possible.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
Easy way to not answer. Still curious to know which tech has been changed again and again and again... Appart for the cache and SM that has been completly rebooted once each I don't see 🤔
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Lol, once 😁

Luckily for you Ant I was whipping up a little deep dive on persistence anyway. Let's use that as an example:

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Blast from the Past: Persistence [Gotta Cache Them All]

Entity Graph replaces iCache (2021)

“iCache” would likely not be able to have low latency at the scale we needed for the number of concurrent players we will need to support in the future. We pivoted to using a Graph database at the start of 2021, taking a different approach to the services and cache which we outlined in a virtual presentation
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iCache was intended to replace pCache (2020)

pcache (persistence cache) is the legacy system, using a monolithic cache for queries to the persistent item DB. As you can imagine, this does not scale well, and worse, when it goes down the game becomes essentially unplayable. For everyone! The new icache (item cache) uses a proliferated fleet of services to optimize querying in a scalable fashion, while using best practices for fault tolerance and recovery so for example all nodes have their data replicated in the network so even if one goes down, only partial data response is briefly lost and quickly a new one is rebuilt in it's place, so automatic regeneration. The new icache is also being built with our gameplay systems in mind and understanding of how we need to query data from game servers. At this point we have a much better idea of how the game works than when the legacy p cache was created, so we can design our item data and query schema to make this new system efficient and minimal, which will also help with stability and scalability.
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The road to pCache (2017)

Persistence cache sits before the Persistence database service that writes direct to the database, taking all of the traffic from all of the dedicated game servers and pushing it down to the database, in more of a cubed organized manner, rather than having all of the game servers hammering one single service. The current model that we have, we can have, as many hubs as we need, we can have as many game servers as we need, but we have only one singleton of every one of these services and that’s the current model.
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So currently, the backend service team are working on revamping and redesigning all of these singletons into so many stateless, easy-to-scale, services that we can have whatever we want and cope with whatever load we get.
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Babby's First 'Full Persistence' (2015/2016)

Have any of these databases and services survived into the modern era? Who knows. But they certainly weren't designed with the current Graph database approach in mind, for a start...

Tony Z (Aug 2015)

The next major deliverable for the Persistent Universe will be called Persistence. Its... an absolutely crucial part of the underlying massively multiplayer technology. It will involve everything from... database abstraction layers and caching functionality, integration with a new global entity ID system that will allow the seamless transition of items from one server to another, and deep integration into various parts of the game server. Ultimately, this update will enable objects to begin to retain state...
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Clive Johnson (Sep 2015)

I've been working on the global entity ID system which is a replacement for the old entity ID number system in Cryengine.
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Jake Ross [AP of PU] (Jan 2016)

Persistence is well underway, being worked on by our back end team... we’re starting the process of completely revamping a little portion of our tech called “Data store” here in Austin. So we realized that there’s some things about Data Store that won't work well with the way we’re setting up Persistence so we’re totally going to revamp that tech as well.
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Chris Roberts (Jan 2016)

Full proper persistence is going to debut early next year.
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Not to mention all the changes brought on by the port to Item 2.0, for example, with its more complex ship & character data. ("One of those infamous problems where, where you've done everything right when you have exactly what you started with..." Sean Tracy (May 2016)).

Or frankly, any of the various shifts and pivots and scope creeps and shiny-chasing which SC is absolutely categorised by... Of which persistence is just a drop in the ocean ;)

You should know all about this kind of stuff really. At least when making daft 'one time' statements anyway ;)

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The reason I face-palmed over it isn't just because you're very wrong though. It's because you won't care either way, and there's no point talking with you about it. You'll think this is all just fine and normal BDSSE dev....

This post is just for my own amusement ;)

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EDIT - Video version :)

VR Golgot said:
7 years of glossy persistence talk...

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/uwns8n Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/uwns8n/persistence_gotta_cache_them_all/

(Soz if it autoplays, dunno how to stop that :oops:)
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McGlashan

McGlashan
LittleAnt said:
Easy way to not answer. Still curious to know which tech has been changed again and again and again... Appart for the cache and SM that has been completly rebooted once each I don't see 🤔
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Every time Roberts mentions "refactoring", which is pretty much every time he opens his mouth, he's telling you that some old, broken, incomplete tier -1 tech is going to be replaced with a shiny new version that absolutely, positively will deliver the promised features this time, honest. And no, that's not what "refactor" actually means, he's just using it incorrectly.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
Since no-one has mentioned it...3.17.1 has been shoved to live with the same raft of bugs still unresolved from PTU. Gotta love the power of marketing over common sense :)

Half my store bought cosmetic ship paints are missing too, wonderful 😑

robertsspaceindustries.com

Star Citizen Alpha 3.17.1 - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
 
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