The Double Engineered FSD is Insane

[fishevi]

No worries guys, 1900+ hours in cockpit and lots of elder cmdrs(from traders and explorers to gankers and PVPers) helped with their experience during that time, so I think I can say that min-max builds are familiar stuff.
But appreciate advices given.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Build was something like this, for PP maybe even low emissions, monstered, which lower heat signature even more, can't remember, I experimented around.

On paper, ticks all boxes. In reality, not a build I would take to Beagle Point, so I scraped it.

Edit: there was small mining laser on also

 

[GTB]

I have the FSD now, and noticed after installing it and flying to an FSD enginner at Deciet. That by default there is no experimental effect listed as used with it. Checked and it said none used so added double braced for integrity (which is the same as what I do with a stock FSD eginnered to L5 for jump range). I could have added thermal spread as EXP effect instead- but I don't see any issue with heat . I usually activate the jump drive when temp hits 48 degrees or less, and it rises to 62 before is jumps, but that not an issue so long as it's not rising past 66 from when activated at 48 temp

Somebody said they noticed the temp shot up when they used this FSD while taking off from a planet. Yeah, I did notice that at first. But once in space and using it flying scooping around planets - it wasn't the same then. So it could be that using it taking off from planets is when the temp shoots up higher than normal, the temp went up to 68 degrees using it taking off from a planet

but I don't see any change at all when fuel scooping either on temp, I checked that as well over 28 jumps to Deciet - to see if the temp was shooting up hotter than normal when fuel scooping. Could be because I use a Grade A best power plant that is enginnerd as Armoured to Grade 5

My jump range in the clipper changed from 33.77 to 37.48. So call it I gained about 4ly jump range with it

 

[GTB]

Thanks imma try out a type 7 but I’m new to finding material not really good at I find manufacture realitvly easy but I’m having a hard time with encoded

Get a wake scanner, while the Detaminated Encoded ones needed don't drop that regular - you can exchange Eccentric Hyperspace encoded at a rate of 6 for 1 of the Detaminated ones you do need, and they drop quite easy to help you get the 28 needed. Sit outside a station that offers encode trading with a wake scanner so you can dock at times and trade the Eccentric Hyperspace encoded for the ones you want

 

[fishevi]

@Moon dog I would not recommend Type-7 with double engineered fsd, didn't work for me, see few posts above

 

[MonkeysaurusRex]

With my phantom, I normally start charging the fsd as I’m finishing up scooping, a couple seconds after the fsd cool down timer ends. This practice normally puts the heat above 80%, and very occasionally I’ll even have to abort the charge if it’s going to pass 100% and take some heat damage. Anyway. Suffice to say it’s pretty efficient as far as time per jump. Switching to the new double engineered drive, I noticed it is generating a bit more heat during charge up, which forced me to delay charging by a few seconds.

I wound up switching from a 5a G4 armored power plant with thermal spread, to a 6a low emissions with thermal spread. So instead of the almost 5 Ly gain I had with the new fsd, the extra weight from the bigger pp brought it down to a bit over 3 Ly gain. But the extra heat is no issue now, and if anything I can even start charging the fsd a little earlier now, basically right as the fsd cool down timer is out.

As far as I can tell, the extra heat with double engineered fsd with mass manager vs a normal G5 long range with mass manager is only an issue during charging.

I will also check about swapping back to the 5a G4 armored pp, and switch the fsd from mass manager to thermal spread, to see if that handles the heat well enough and gives me any more range. I’d prefer to have the armored pp if possible, because it’s higher integrity is better for longer jaunts in the black, not to mention in the occasional scuffle.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

No worries guys, 1900+ hours in cockpit and lots of elder cmdrs(from traders and explorers to gankers and PVPers) helped with their experience during that time, so I think I can say that min-max builds are familiar stuff.
But appreciate advices given.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Build was something like this, for PP maybe even low emissions, monstered, which lower heat signature even more, can't remember, I experimented around.

On paper, ticks all boxes. In reality, not a build I would take to Beagle Point, so I scraped it.

Edit: there was small mining laser on also

Sorry for the late reply. I finally got around to taking a look at your build. Armoring the power plant isn't good for exploration builds. Thats best for things like combat and cargo ships. Exploration ships you need to go full low emitions. I'd recommend two things. One if you want to stick with your current PP use low emitions grade 3 with monsterd experimental and turn off your cargo hatch and repair limpet. Or use a grade 4 power plant and go full G 5 low emitions take the -0.45 LY drop in range and you'll be able to run everything you want and stay nice as cold as ice.

 

[GTB]

Armoring the power plant isn't good for exploration builds.

Depends... I know Armoured adds extra weight, but you can take it as armoured up to Grade 1 (4% extra weight) or Grade 2 (8% extra weight added) and then use Strip weight for the EXP Effect (10% reduction in weight) - and it will strip more weight than was added. So long as you don't take it past Grade 2, in theory you can still Armour a power plant to Grade 1 or 2 and then use strip weight and it would be a lighter power plant, offering more power, better heat, and better integrity - than if you didn't add that Armoured and just left the power plant not engineered at all

INARA

The community site for Elite: Dangerous, Starfield with the game databases, information, gaming news and other handy content...

inara.cz

You can also do the same thing with the thrusters. Take Clean drive tuning to Grade 1 and then take strip weight as EXP effect and you gain a slight boost in thruster speed and reduce the weight also by saving 8% weight if you use strip weight for exp effect that reduces it by 10% - as grade 1 only adds 2% extra weight on clean drive tuning (and with no other negative effects if only taken to grade 1)

And again, you can do a similar thing with the power distributor as well. Take "Shielded" up to Grade 3 "maximum" that adds 9% weight and then take strip weight for EXP effect that reduces it by 10% wieght. You would gain a 1% weight loss at grade 3 and gain reduced power usage by the distribter and better integrity

 

[GTB]

As far as I can tell, the extra heat with double engineered fsd with mass manager vs a normal G5 long range with mass manager is only an issue during charging.

Have you tried charging the FSD yet while taking off from planets, as somebody mentioned the heat did shoot up using this FSD v1 when taking off from a planet base and I noticed the same thing also when I left the planet base I first bought it from, but then it seemed okay afterwards using it in space. Just wondering if there is an issue with it heating up faster when used charging it to jump "early" from a planet base - when the target destination doesn't require you to leave the planet orbit first before powering the fsd up, you only need lose planet mass lock

 

[GTB]

As far as I can tell, the extra heat with double engineered fsd with mass manager vs a normal G5 long range with mass manager is only an issue during charging.

That is what I'm seeing. I'm not seeing any issue with heat increasing when you fly around a sun fuel scooping. Seems to only be a charging the FSD thing, but then I usually only start the FSD charge anyway when it drops below 50 degrees and it only hitting 62 degrees while charging from that before it jumps. Personally I would still take double-braced as the EXP effect, as the FSD loses a lot of integrity engineering it to long range jumps, and double braced adds more integrity back than you lose taking it to Grade 5.

If this FSD has been "double engineered" as Fast Boot also (slapped on top of it), then Grade 5 loses 15% integrity - along with losing 15% integratity as a long range FSD also taken to Grade 5. That is a 30% loss in integrity, but double-braced EXP adds back 25% boost to integrity. So you would only lose 5% integrity vs losing 30% if you don't take double-braced for EXP effect

Fast boot (as the double engineered) adds 20% extra heat, which it sounds like they stuck that to Grade 5 on top of Long range engineered. But take a look at the loss of integraity on both Fast Boot and Long Range - if taken to grade 5 for both, 30% loss in total

INARA

The community site for Elite: Dangerous, Starfield with the game databases, information, gaming news and other handy content...

inara.cz

So the question here is then by the looks of things. Do you want to take a 3 or 4 ly jump range gain with a 5% loss in integrity on the FSD (when using double braced for EXP effect on it) and a 20% increase in heat VS a stock FSD engineered as Long range with double braced EXP effect used on it also that gains you 10% better integrity on the FSD, plus no 20% increase in heat

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Depends... I know Armoured adds extra weight, but you can take it as armoured up to Grade 1 (4% extra weight) or Grade 2 (8% extra weight added) and then use Strip weight for the EXP Effect (10% reduction in weight) - and it will strip more weight than was added. So long as you don't take it past Grade 2, in theory you can still Armour a power plant to Grade 1 or 2 and then use strip weight and it would be a lighter power plant, offering more power, better heat, and better integrity - than if you didn't add that Armoured and just left the power plant not engineered at all

That would be good to do if you were running a cargo ship but it's not useful for exploration builds. Armoring at grade 2 only decreases the heat signature by 6% while low emissions at grade 2 will decrease it by 35%. Both will add extra weight that can be negated by stripped down but the added bonus to power is not needed because it's an explorer. Most of the modules should be turned off until you are actually using them to conserve power and heat or if you absolutely want too you can add the monsterd experimental. The added integrity is not needed either because it's an exploration ship and there is very little danger of taking damage to it. Heat efficiency should be the highest if not one of the highest priorities for an explorer next to jump range.

INARA

The community site for Elite: Dangerous, Starfield with the game databases, information, gaming news and other handy content...

inara.cz

You can also do the same thing with the thrusters. Take Clean drive tuning to Grade 1 and then take strip weight as EXP effect and you gain a slight boost in thruster speed and reduce the weight also by saving 8% weight if you use strip weight for exp effect that reduces it by 10% - as grade 1 only adds 2% extra weight on clean drive tuning (and with no other negative effects if only taken to grade 1)

Shure. Alot of people do that. I personally use grade 5 because I just like the extra performance when landing on a planet and the other negatives aren't an issue with me because my power plant is cold as ice.

And again, you can do a similar thing with the power distributor as well. Take "Shielded" up to Grade 3 "maximum" that adds 9% weight and then take strip weight for EXP effect that reduces it by 10% wieght. You would gain a 1% weight loss at grade 3 and gain reduced power usage by the distribter and better integrity

Why would you do that? Your just adding unnecessary weight. Just put a class 1D PD on it and add an engine focused experimental (grade 3 at least is enough) and from there you can add stripped down to loose even more weight. Like everything else on an explorer you can turn off the PD to save power/heat. Just leave it off untill you are going to land or dock and turn it back on. Theres no need for it till then. It keeps the last configuration you had it in before you turned it off. All it does is let your rearrange your pips when it's on.

 

[GTB]

Yeah, you can put a lower level module in that would save on weight. My reply was just to say that engineering some Grade A modules isn't necessarily a bad thing for an explorer ship if you don't take things right up Grade 5 and instead stop at a grade 1 or 2 - where the strip weight experimental effect still strips more weight off than you gained by enginnering a module to a low grade for only a slight gain. But sure.. you can just stick in there a lower level module instead.

Personally, I don't go the whole hog looking to strip a ship of everything to get the best ever jump range out of it, as the ship pretty much then becomes useless for anything else - other than jumping a great distance. Instead I still use all Grade A best equipment and then look at engineering some of the stuff to shave a bit of weight off where I can by engineering things to a low grade and then stick mass manager (strip weight) on them, that strips more off than what they gained

Remember, a power plant enginnered as Armoured to grade 1 (gains 4% extra weight) but has strip weight exp effect added (reduces weight by 10%). Is still going to make that power plant lighter than a stock power plant of same level that's not been engineered at all. Because you just gain 6% decrease in weight.

 

[MonkeysaurusRex]

My first real exploration ship was an asp x engineered for Max jump range above all other considerations. I used the smallest overcharged power plant I could get away with, along with smallest lightest of everything. First time I ran into someone that didn’t want to o7 and hug it out with me, I was looking at the rebuy screen before I knew what happened. It was also utter crap at getting anywhere fast. Sure it could jump far, but would overheat when scooping and sometimes take a little damage on a hard landing.

I know still a lot of folks rig that way, although hopefully with the overcharged pp which is just junk, but for the extra few light years you gain, I don’t find it worth flying around hoping not to run into any danger. I would engineering some decent shields some resistance balancing, keep the rig fast, and throw in some hull reenforcing just in case.

With an asp x you can still get over 60 Ly unladen, 65 with the new double engineered fsd and guardian booster, and have a fast ship that can safely escape a hostile encounter. If you instead Max out for jump range you have a paper hull that gets less well less than 10 extra ly jump range.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[fishevi]

Sorry for the late reply. I finally got around to taking a look at your build. Armoring the power plant isn't good for exploration builds. Thats best for things like combat and cargo ships. Exploration ships you need to go full low emitions. I'd recommend two things. One if you want to stick with your current PP use low emitions grade 3 with monsterd experimental and turn off your cargo hatch and repair limpet. Or use a grade 4 power plant and go full G 5 low emitions take the -0.45 LY drop in range and you'll be able to run everything you want and stay nice as cold as ice.

No worries
Yes, lots of options there, clean thrusters, playing with PP, but I wasn't initially impressed. Over heating was not that bad, but required attention on fuel scooping, charging, so it was not easy scooping and jumping like you would do in like dbx or phantom.
My phantom with CG fsd does not go over 80 even if I start charging while still scooping.
So I ditched that Type-7 build.
Appreciate the advices though.

And I usually go bit armored, thermal spread on explo because heat decrease and more integrity as PP is the only module yo can't repair with AFMU, right?

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

No worries
Yes, lots of options there, clean thrusters, playing with PP, but I wasn't initially impressed. Over heating was not that bad, but required attention on fuel scooping, charging, so it was not easy scooping and jumping like you would do in like dbx or phantom.
My phantom with CG fsd does not go over 80 even if I start charging while still scooping.
So I ditched that Type-7 build.
Appreciate the advices though.

Every ship has its own individual heat output that is completely separate from it's individual modules. On some ships you could have the exact same modules and the heat will act differently. Noone knows what the exact values are but we do know the Diamond back explorer/scout are the coldest of all ships followed the Asp X/S. I actually have have an explorer DBX that's equipped with a guardian PP and PD and carriers enough shields and weaponry to deal with lightly armored enemies. I have no heat issues because it's an insanely efficient ship. If I used that same loadout on most any other ship the thermometer would scream bloody murder before I made it out of the mailslot.

And I usually go bit armored, thermal spread on explo because heat decrease and more integrity as PP is the only module yo can't repair with AFMU, right?

You do you man. I laid out my case for armored vs low emissions in detail a couple posts above in #115 so if you want to go take a look in detail it's there. The heat efficiency on my main explorer is about .14 and i have jumped dead center in the middle of a triple star system and the thermometer barely even flinched. Anyway have a good flight.

 

[fishevi]

Noted all constructive posts.
I want to build explo ship, but not Dbx, Asp, Phantom, Conda(usual suspects).
Tried Type-7, didn't work so good. Hmm, maybe Orca...
Anyway, will find some interesting build to play with, doesn't have to be CG fsd in it.

 

[Spaceman Si]

I want to build explo ship, but not Dbx, Asp, Phantom, Conda(usual suspects).

If you wanted something unusual and stylish, might I suggest the Imperial Clipper?

I have one that I built to be a very self-reliant explorer with a max jump range of 51ly - and that doesn’t use the double engineered FSD. It isn’t going to be able to get to the extreme edges of the galaxy, but it’s perfectly good for everything else

The view from the cockpit is immense, and the sheer style and opulence of the craft makes it a delight to be in. I also like to imagine the surprised and awed looks on the faces of deep space asteroid base staff as I glide it in to land

 

[fishevi]

If you wanted something unusual and stylish, might I suggest the Imperial Clipper?

I have one that I built to be a very self-reliant explorer with a max jump range of 51ly - and that doesn’t use the double engineered FSD. It isn’t going to be able to get to the extreme edges of the galaxy, but it’s perfectly good for everything else

The view from the cockpit is immense, and the sheer style and opulence of the craft makes it a delight to be in. I also like to imagine the surprised and awed looks on the faces of deep space asteroid base staff as I glide it in to land

I am a big fan of Clipper.
Have 1 minning build and 1 ram/frag murder boat.
I love SC/overall agility and best cockpit in my opinion.

So Clipper is on my short list for sure

 

[Northpin]

I am a big fan of Clipper.
Have 1 minning build and 1 ram/frag murder boat.
I love SC/overall agility and best cockpit in my opinion.

So Clipper is on my short list for sure

Orca might be a better option since it's internals provide better flexibility compared with the Clipper.
Also better jump range and better shields

 

[GTB]

Just got my second one

 

[Scoob]

I just went looking for this at Jameson Memorial as I have access, however, it's not listed at the Tech Broker there. Is it only at specific Tech Brokers? Usually Shinrarta is a good place for all Modules and the Tech Broker there had had everything I've looked for in the past.

Scoob.