Why should they be labelled. You can drop out of SC anywhere over the rings and start mining any of the rocks. I can't imagine that FD will limit the distribution of ore bearing asteroids to a specific area. Immersion breaking idea!
The Mining discussion thread.
Why should they be labelled. You can drop out of SC anywhere over the rings and start mining any of the rocks. I can't imagine that FD will limit the distribution of ore bearing asteroids to a specific area. Immersion breaking idea!
They want to bring people together, its been stated a few times.
The way I imagine it working, extraction zones will have a higher yield than just mining anywhere. Perhaps in the Elite world, it is illegal to mine outside of resource areas (like here on Earth, I just couldn't start a mine in my back yard).
Wandering around mining shouldn't be totally risk free - piracy should always be something to be wary of.
I wonder if on the local system map, we will be able to scan and locate ships from afar.
What are your views on someone else being able to find the same site you found, and thus come and pirate you?
I dont think we will get that in PB2 ...
More than likely we will get the E3 build which has a few more bells and whistles. Possibly another couple of systems, but thats probably it. Mining will require quite a few other gameplay mechanics to be in place as well (for example being able to actually buy a mining laser). Not to mention spawning and respawning of mining resources ... The list goes on.
Don't get your hopes up on this one.
More than likely we will get the E3 build which has a few more bells and whistles. Possibly another couple of systems, but thats probably it. Mining will require quite a few other gameplay mechanics to be in place as well (for example being able to actually buy a mining laser). Not to mention spawning and respawning of mining resources ... The list goes on.
Don't get your hopes up on this one.
If I am a miner I could have 2 choices, use data provided by explorers/surveyors which could save me much time surveying myself but would also run the risk of pirates using the same data to come looking for prey.
Or I could explore/survey myself and find a good patch, I could mine there for a time and decide to keep it to myself for the future. Or if I wanted to I could also survey it and sell that data back to a station. Also, if I were keeping a site to myself maybe explorers/surveyors could look for people on long range scan and investigate.
Or I could explore/survey myself and find a good patch, I could mine there for a time and decide to keep it to myself for the future. Or if I wanted to I could also survey it and sell that data back to a station. Also, if I were keeping a site to myself maybe explorers/surveyors could look for people on long range scan and investigate.
OR.... (and I'm wondering)... is there an option 3? 'Hey, I have found a cracking place to mine, tonnes of Platinum, location is yours for 3.5million credits'.... When in fact you're selling a rock with half a tonne of low-profit ore...?
Or even set up an ambush....
But I think the data brokering will be automatic and you can't trick the system, you just sell what you scanned, no user input. If indeed this makes it into the game.
I guess it is another revenue stream for explorers; prospecting.
Hmmm. I had wondered to be honest, I'm pretty sure I saw a DDF discussion that scamming (within game rules) would be a legitimate tactic, so wondered if you could take advantage of 'gold-rush fever' for a quick profit within that constraint. Not interested in doing that myself, but I am interested in mining (or 'rock-licking', as a friend puts it lol).
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The problem I see with data scamming, either trade or exploration information is:
A. Why should the scammer not have to work for his money - just sitting there making stuff up is the ultimate easy mode. If you're going to sell info then you should have to do something to earn that information. If it's trade then you should have to have visited the station in question, if it's exploration then you should have been and scanned the location personally.
B. There should be some negatives to prevent scamming becoming overpowered - If you don't have a method of looking up someones reliability in game then the forums policy of name and shame needs dropping. - Then you have issues with ignore lists and a knock on effect with pvp.
All in all much simpler to leave it out for the time being and rely on authenticated data transfer.
A. Why should the scammer not have to work for his money - just sitting there making stuff up is the ultimate easy mode. If you're going to sell info then you should have to do something to earn that information. If it's trade then you should have to have visited the station in question, if it's exploration then you should have been and scanned the location personally.
B. There should be some negatives to prevent scamming becoming overpowered - If you don't have a method of looking up someones reliability in game then the forums policy of name and shame needs dropping. - Then you have issues with ignore lists and a knock on effect with pvp.
All in all much simpler to leave it out for the time being and rely on authenticated data transfer.
Good points, I actually found the post regarding data scamming. It would require hard work to set up (like any good scam does, I suppose), and there are consequences too. The post referred only to trading scams, but I had wondered about it applying here too as a gaming mechanic. As I said, not interested in doing it myself, but rather whether I should 'watch out' if I purchase data ;-)
It's interesting reading, take a look:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=147803
As i understand exploration works somehow different. You cant just sell a scam. You start your scanners/probe and let them scan the system.
Depending on the quality of your scanner equipment and your personal skill - there seems to be some kind of visual feedback from the scanner, that can be evaluated by the explorer himself - you may find some sites. This sites include mining, battles, special encounters. Just like the thing you see in standard-supercruise at the moment.
So if you find a hidden mining site around mars in sol system you can go to the market and sell this knowledge, either for a high price to a single bidder or for a low price for anybody. You cant just rename the data from "barren rock asteroid field" to "secret-super-high-yield-platinum asteroid field".
However: i'm not sure if you're able to sell it again and again. And i'm not sure if i lose this data if i sell it to you. I'm also not sure if im able to scan again for this data - if i lose it - and have a bigger and easier chance to find it because i already know where it is. I'm also not sure if this POIs are randomly generated or stay the same. Could be possible that this positions are sold by more than one person on the market.
Depending on the quality of your scanner equipment and your personal skill - there seems to be some kind of visual feedback from the scanner, that can be evaluated by the explorer himself - you may find some sites. This sites include mining, battles, special encounters. Just like the thing you see in standard-supercruise at the moment.
So if you find a hidden mining site around mars in sol system you can go to the market and sell this knowledge, either for a high price to a single bidder or for a low price for anybody. You cant just rename the data from "barren rock asteroid field" to "secret-super-high-yield-platinum asteroid field".
However: i'm not sure if you're able to sell it again and again. And i'm not sure if i lose this data if i sell it to you. I'm also not sure if im able to scan again for this data - if i lose it - and have a bigger and easier chance to find it because i already know where it is. I'm also not sure if this POIs are randomly generated or stay the same. Could be possible that this positions are sold by more than one person on the market.
Apologies - wandering off topic....
I'd like for information to have value and be tradable - but as soon as you allow a mechanism that allows the value of that info to be diluted then it becomes a minefield. Get it wrong and the whole market becomes worthless and it won't take many scammers/scams for that to happen.
Some thoughts on how to maintain the integrity of the market.
Even if the game tracks reputation, a potential buyer/information broker will still need more than just a number to make an informed choice.
Say the seller has a reputation of 10/10 - was that earned over six months doing one and two credit sales to a multitude of different characters or earned relatively quickly by a few high credit sales to the same people?
Reputation in itself has to have value, the time/effort invested in building up the Rep have to be balanced against the profit from the scam. If A seller pulls off a multi million credit scam then I'd expect his reputation to be such that it can never be recovered.
Even then I doubt the game could ever make enough information available to accurately determine by judgement if a data trade is legitimate or a scam. I'd think that there needs to be mitigation for the "mark", if all else fails - say 10-20% of the value of the trade paid as insurance before the final trade.
I'd like for information to have value and be tradable - but as soon as you allow a mechanism that allows the value of that info to be diluted then it becomes a minefield. Get it wrong and the whole market becomes worthless and it won't take many scammers/scams for that to happen.
Some thoughts on how to maintain the integrity of the market.
Even if the game tracks reputation, a potential buyer/information broker will still need more than just a number to make an informed choice.
Say the seller has a reputation of 10/10 - was that earned over six months doing one and two credit sales to a multitude of different characters or earned relatively quickly by a few high credit sales to the same people?
Reputation in itself has to have value, the time/effort invested in building up the Rep have to be balanced against the profit from the scam. If A seller pulls off a multi million credit scam then I'd expect his reputation to be such that it can never be recovered.
Even then I doubt the game could ever make enough information available to accurately determine by judgement if a data trade is legitimate or a scam. I'd think that there needs to be mitigation for the "mark", if all else fails - say 10-20% of the value of the trade paid as insurance before the final trade.
No disagreement here sir - you make good points. I was more wondering if it was possible alongside the proposed trade scam mechanic (since it's technically still trading a commodity). To me, it just shifts whether you should be asking yourself if the sale is really 'too good to be true' or is intrinsically trusted. And I think I'm more guilty than you for pulling this off-topic!
@Togg - absolutely agree with you there, Eve's mining drove me nuts - but from what Kulin has opined (Thanks!) there will be skill required from the get-go. I imagine FD would likewise require some skills for extraction as well -possibly keeping a synchronous orbit against asteroids for example as they tumble through space (distance & position), or the beam loses focus?
