The most Fundamental Flaw of Elite - And How to Fix It
- Thread starter Blackcompany
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Blackcompany
Banned
Thanks. I suppose the passengers to planets could be down to system type and the number and type of bases on planets, too. Or sheer luck. Much as I like planets visually, though, I tend to avoid them right now. Getting there and taking off again simply takes too long, for the little they offer. If the transition from SC to orbital flight and finally to glide and planetary flight were quicker, smoother or more satisfying, I doubt I would feel this way, but alas, transitioning to planets is...not my favorite activity in Elite. Planets need to offer more compelling game play before the time spent getting there and back will be worth it for me.
Yep agreed, resource hunting in an SRV I have always found rather tedious.
For a while many have suggested laying out SRV racing tracks, and establishing leader boards - daily, weekly, monthly, all-time - and get a racing league going (just as NMS are doing in their next release). With the hoped for improvement in planetary surfaces slated for Q4 it would also be nice if we could get a similar canyon racing league going for ships.
You know, have proper games to play within the game.
For me, the "fundamental flaw" in ED is simply that the game allows and encourages players to pursue a variety of activities but, when it comes right down to it, a player who's interested in PvP will always gain the upper hand over those who aren't.
This should never have been allowed to be the case.
This should never have been allowed to be the case.
Taking PvP out of the equation, what is needed is some risk for all players regardless of mode. However the current implementation means that the risk for a lot of people outweighs any reward, or conversely the risk is so low as to be meaningless.
A clean unpledged ship in a High Sec system should have negligible risk from PvP OR NPCs, but the reward to doing whatever activity (and there simply aren't enough) should be low.
A player and so on operating in Medium or Low security systems should have the risk of attack by either CMDRs or NPCs (& NPCs should scale where it should be very hard to kill an Elite/Deadly NPC), but activities here should pay higher.
Pirates should be rewarded for selling cargo where the original ship is only disabled or damaged, not destroyed.
Terrorists (in game only, no aspersions cast) should gain more rewards (in the form of Anarchy modules/engineering/etc) for killing clean ships, BUT should have to fight persistent Deadly/Elite NPCs, or be mode locked to Open (if a CMDR Killer) with CMDR BH able to either see them on the Galmap whilst in Med or High Sec space, or CMDR BH able to telepresence into System Authority NPCs to fight them rather than the current needle in haystack.
tl;dr:- You should be able to do anything, but the rewards and risk are scalable - in any mode.
IF FDEV DOESN'T OFFER YOU A JOB TESTING THEIR IDEAS AND USING YOUR CREATIVE MIND FOR NEW IDEAS THEN THEY ARE MASOCHISTS. HIRE THIS GUY FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY
Very clever post! Let me dissect the premise.
Whenever someone makes suggestions about Elite-Feet, or space-legs, or whatnot, the obligatory "I bought ED to sit in my seat..FDev doesn't have time to develop things other than sitting in a chair" arguments arise. Here, you deftly suggest and dare FDev to make that seat-sitting even more enjoyable.
I agree with all your suggestions...but also, your sly suggestion for elite-feet. j/k!
I was actually considering making a post, in warning, for if/when elite-feet happens. And that is, I currently have nearly 3000 hours in ED. With elite-feet, I may triple that. But now seeing your suggestions, I could see tripling that time just while in the seat. Scary.
I really enjoy the time I get in my SRV. Any mission I get, landside, I tend to go driving around for much longer than necessary. I could see applying your suggestions to the SRV as well.
Whenever someone makes suggestions about Elite-Feet, or space-legs, or whatnot, the obligatory "I bought ED to sit in my seat..FDev doesn't have time to develop things other than sitting in a chair" arguments arise. Here, you deftly suggest and dare FDev to make that seat-sitting even more enjoyable.
I agree with all your suggestions...but also, your sly suggestion for elite-feet. j/k!
I was actually considering making a post, in warning, for if/when elite-feet happens. And that is, I currently have nearly 3000 hours in ED. With elite-feet, I may triple that. But now seeing your suggestions, I could see tripling that time just while in the seat. Scary.
I really enjoy the time I get in my SRV. Any mission I get, landside, I tend to go driving around for much longer than necessary. I could see applying your suggestions to the SRV as well.
I was thinking last night as I was over flying a town..... I want to Nuke something. Or Planetary Bombardment. You know, get a faction mission that wants to kill off the leadership of another faction. Fly in, plant a nuke, fly out before the shock wave gets you.
Blackcompany
Banned
More great posts.
I hope this year renews the focus on flying the ships, as opposed to outfitting them. You can't make a multi year online game without new GAME PLAY content regularly. It simply won't work.
I hope this year renews the focus on flying the ships, as opposed to outfitting them. You can't make a multi year online game without new GAME PLAY content regularly. It simply won't work.
Man, I've almost written the EXACT same post so many times! I've been mentally preparing it since I came back to the game in November, but you covered it all.
I love the flight model of Elite. BUT, we _rarely_ get to use our actual flying skill outside of combat...! The game needs to focus on things that force us to use our well earned skill as pilots in a variety of ways.
I remember my first time visiting that Sarge engineer, and my parking spot was under some framework and I had to enter it sideways. Not hard to do, but it made me so unreasonably happy because I actually had to use some piloting ability to squeeze in there and dock. The game simply needs more of this; difficult to dock places, missions that force you to have chases in asteroid fields, smuggling missions that require you to avoid scans in tight areas, chases over the surface of planets, there's so many things.
It's so fun to fly these ships and getting good at it is very rewarding, but we need more gameplay that supports it!
I love the flight model of Elite. BUT, we _rarely_ get to use our actual flying skill outside of combat...! The game needs to focus on things that force us to use our well earned skill as pilots in a variety of ways.
I remember my first time visiting that Sarge engineer, and my parking spot was under some framework and I had to enter it sideways. Not hard to do, but it made me so unreasonably happy because I actually had to use some piloting ability to squeeze in there and dock. The game simply needs more of this; difficult to dock places, missions that force you to have chases in asteroid fields, smuggling missions that require you to avoid scans in tight areas, chases over the surface of planets, there's so many things.
It's so fun to fly these ships and getting good at it is very rewarding, but we need more gameplay that supports it!
Yeah, I think a while back I suggested something similar. My idea was that you get hired to fly someone else's ship, like "I need a great pilot, please get this E-rated T6 past that blockade and sneak into the station without getting blown up or scanned!". Your own ship would be waiting for you at the destination, and you'd not only give newer players a chance to try out different ships, you'd be limited by whatever the unique loadouts are for the mission.
It'd be fun!
For the same reason airports aren't built next to skyscrapers today. Noise is a primary factor (if there's more than a vacuum atmosphere), and then there's the fact that huge masses of metal lurching about in a gravity well under thrust is always going to be a danger. So it gets built up like airports do: lots of broad, flat warehouses and intermediary service industry businesses. And you don't build taller than the law allows, since there will always be regulations about what you're allowed to build next to a starport/terminal.
This is the kind of thread that gives voice to what we're all thinking--and if we weren't thinking it, we damn sure are now.
Elite Dangerous is one of many games I've played in recent years that have incredible things going for them...but they happen to be wrapped up in terrible design decisions, lackluster content, a horrible business model, or some combination of the three. ED, thankfully, only suffers from the first two or I wouldn't even be here. It's got an absolutely delightful core gameplay skeleton and a whole galaxy of space to play in...but that galaxy is very flat, bland, empty and quite frankly, extremely illogical. BC's right in one thing above all: This game already has the mechanics in place to support stunning depth of gameplay; it just needs to be applied properly. Add some logic, a little more (ahem) elegance in the UI navigation, a healthy dose of common sense (WHY does that damn cruise ship keep bragging to the entire system about it's 1% status? WHO CARES?) and a dash of reactivity and we'd have Star Citizen and No Man's Sky devs crying themselves to sleep while Fdev rakes in ALL TEH PLAYURS.
I have to second (twenty-third? Forty-sixth? Whatever) this string of suggestions; the lack of actual 'flying' is something I hadn't directly identified as a problem before. I'm sure I've noticed, but I just didn't quite snap to it until someone put it into words.
Before all this though, how about we fix external landing pads first? You know, stop turning us around on takeoff since it's pointless due to being able to fly in any direction? Please?
Elite Dangerous is one of many games I've played in recent years that have incredible things going for them...but they happen to be wrapped up in terrible design decisions, lackluster content, a horrible business model, or some combination of the three. ED, thankfully, only suffers from the first two or I wouldn't even be here. It's got an absolutely delightful core gameplay skeleton and a whole galaxy of space to play in...but that galaxy is very flat, bland, empty and quite frankly, extremely illogical. BC's right in one thing above all: This game already has the mechanics in place to support stunning depth of gameplay; it just needs to be applied properly. Add some logic, a little more (ahem) elegance in the UI navigation, a healthy dose of common sense (WHY does that damn cruise ship keep bragging to the entire system about it's 1% status? WHO CARES?) and a dash of reactivity and we'd have Star Citizen and No Man's Sky devs crying themselves to sleep while Fdev rakes in ALL TEH PLAYURS.
I have to second (twenty-third? Forty-sixth? Whatever) this string of suggestions; the lack of actual 'flying' is something I hadn't directly identified as a problem before. I'm sure I've noticed, but I just didn't quite snap to it until someone put it into words.
Before all this though, how about we fix external landing pads first? You know, stop turning us around on takeoff since it's pointless due to being able to fly in any direction? Please?
Speed up system flight. Faster acceleration and deceleration, less effect from nearby mass.
In compensation, FSD Interdictors should slow players down outside of the actual interdiction range, so it's still possible to catch people. Fair is fair.
LESS TIME WATCHING TEN SECONDS TICK DOWN IN SIXTY SECONDS.
In compensation, FSD Interdictors should slow players down outside of the actual interdiction range, so it's still possible to catch people. Fair is fair.
LESS TIME WATCHING TEN SECONDS TICK DOWN IN SIXTY SECONDS.
Blackcompany
Banned
Wow more solid stuff.
Fair point about structure near bases.
Love the station/structure repair, and other FA Off stuff.
I think Fdev needs to refocus. Forget crafting. Forget customization for a while. Dial back in on reasons to fly the ships.
Fair point about structure near bases.
Love the station/structure repair, and other FA Off stuff.
I think Fdev needs to refocus. Forget crafting. Forget customization for a while. Dial back in on reasons to fly the ships.
Sterling! Awesome ideas, Blackcompany!
Blackcompany
Banned
Thanks.
More and more as I return to playing on and off, I find that when I log off after an hour, it's because of a lack of stuff to do.
But there's lots to do, some argue.
Well...is there lots to DO? Or...is there a lot to LOOK AT, while DOING very little?
I want to fly ships. I want the game to require focus and attention. And occasionally effort. If I want to watch Netflix, I'll log off and do that. To my mind, if a game is a good chance to watch Netflix, it's a BAD game.
So give me more time using the amazing flight model. Then refocus Support mechanics on getting me back in ship and flying as quickly and as efficiently as possible. If I want to stare at menues on a screen, I'll go back to work.