Excellent! Thanks for clarifying that one, that's at least something else we can probably eliminate from the list!!
The Quest To Find Raxxla
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I like that idea, it does explain why human and guardian tech are so similar in so many ways. Retaining the 'best' technology for themselves would also explain how the PF managed to retain power for over 500 years!
I think too much time and effort was put into the Guardians for them to be simply a blueprint vendor. We have more lore on the Guardians than on almost any individual part of human society!
That's a good point. It's known that Michael Brookes was very into Lovecraftian horror though, and in that genre the default assumption underpinning everything is that there are unknowable alien intelligences that exist beyond anything we know, and that interacting with them is often the source of madness and/or death. I can imagine that he might like the idea of some powerful aliens that are god-like that have inadvertently or deliberately shaped humanity
That's a tough one. I think, for me, there's no direct evidence, but there's a lot of 'evidence by association' that there's been a lot of Guardian-Human interactions for a long time. As mentioned: our ship UI using the Guardian-style triangles when loading, how easily Ram Tah translated the Guardian Monolith Network, how easily Guardian tech integrates with our ships - this includes how we use the scanners to trigger Guardian tech to activate, the proximity of Guardian space to ours, the 'direction of travel' of the late-Guardian expansion pointing pretty much directly towards Sol, the similarity between Guardian biology and social structure to us, the relevance of the 'Guardian Story' to humanity, etc. etc.
The Guardians are so human-like even Ram Tah says they have very similar genetics to us!! At the height of Guardian civilisation humanity was just about entering the 'modern human' era of early evolution, it's possible that we were uplifted by Guardians at that point - as Jorki says, there are many homages to Clarke's 2001 in Elite games, and that's a central theme of that franchise.
What do you think? Is there anything that might be more solid proof?
True! The investigations on this thread and elsewhere over all these years by so many dedicated people have eliminated quite a lot though, and I think we're left with a relatively narrow range of solutions at this point. Sort of like panning for gold from a river - you have to get rid of everything that isn't gold...
The ED wiki is very handy as a starting point although you have to check every source for accuracy, of course. The Pilot's Federation lore is entirely in the Shinrarta Dezhra system's tourist spots. The Dark Wheel Novella text can be found here, though it's not cannon it's been shown many times that Fdev used it as inspiration for Elite Dangerous lore, the sections on Raxxla are very similar to the Raxxla Codex text. I also find the Galnet archives useful, and the actual Galnet posts (though not searchable). There's this spreadsheet collated by the Children of Raxxla which has a lot of info on what's already been checked. This spreadsheet contains a list of all known tourist beacons. The Canonn site is very handy as an archive of past discoveries, including audio recordings and pictures.
You can search Galnet by proxy though.
For example on duckduckgo I'll type:
site:community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/ "Raxxla is in Sol"
To bring up specifically that string
For example on duckduckgo I'll type:
site:community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/ "Raxxla is in Sol"
To bring up specifically that string
There are no Belt Clusters in Artemis, despite what the System Map shows.
In the book, Freeholm was surrounded by them and it took a long time in normal flight to get clear of them but in-game Freeholm did not even exist at launch. It was one of the first asteroid bases to be added.
In the book, Freeholm was surrounded by them and it took a long time in normal flight to get clear of them but in-game Freeholm did not even exist at launch. It was one of the first asteroid bases to be added.
https://elite.drinkybird.net/ is a godsend for this, just to shill it.
Oh that's brilliant, I never know about this before, thanks!
I think that in a procedurally generated game, developers are forced to block formulas in key places. This sometimes shows up as a bug elsewhere in the game. On the screen below, for some reason translated the name of the Alioth system and as a result of this engineer can not show the distance and switch to him on the map.
What is remarkable system Alioth ?
P.S. I wonder if it's the same in other languages ?
What is remarkable system Alioth ?
I guess that it's possible, but I've noticed recently some things happening due to what I assume is a translation oddity. In open I'll see Federal Logistics, FÖderale ... Logistica ... All sorts of variations. Maybe I've missed it all these years but it looks like if someone's in the same instance as me then some NPCs might gain these name variations - what I'm guessing is their local language.
A few of us actually think there might’ve been survivors. There were two conflicts at the end of the species we called Guardian, the first one a group was exiled. They were cybernetic, and the logs actually say that the AI software recognized they were vulnerable and dependent on the network, so it built hardware for them. They are never mentioned again after that. And the war after they left lasted over a century.
The real war that started after this started over the schism between what to do with the AI. The logs say that most of the colonies were pulled into the conflict. Not all of them. Plus when you consider the mass of their numbers after being in space for 8000 years according to the ships computer, there could very well have been refugees. The main body of constructs would be useless because a lot of them were remote controlled. But the AI constructs probably would have developed further. They were sentient at this point. A new life form.
We also are looking strongly at trapezium, and wregoe where are you have a squadron of thargoid ships scattered across the surface between two guardian sites. We believe this is the result of an EMP blast from the guardians sites that slapped the squadron out of orbit and caused them to crash on the surface. The pattern they crashed in kind of looks like this would be the case. And the crashed ships have biological materials in them still which makes them seem more recent than the war they had with the guardians.
We are wondering if the AI or some kind of automatic process that recognizes the enemy technology is slapping them out of the sky. There are many processes we see evident at the sites that don’t seem to ever have been triggered or figured out.
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Hecate has some VERY compelling linkages with the codex and Raxxla.
Reiterating a few ideas from that list:
Astrophel and the Spiralling Stars - Hecate and the 3 Charites / Graces reminds me of the spiralling Triskelion symbolism or divine triad.
Fernweh - Hecate linked to crossroads implies a traveller must make a choice which direction to choose - always giving up one option for another.
Door that is also the key - Hecate embodies the boundaries and the liminal spaces between worlds, holder of the keys that can unlock the gates between realms.
Place that isn't a place - this very much could be a riddle for a doorway or interstitial space in architecture, one that is not associated with being a place (like a dining room), but one that a person can be present within - ie. you can be standing in a doorway, or standing GUARD in this case.
Every fibre in my body is screaming that this means a link to the Guardians, and that Raxxla is either something they created, an unfinished goal (journey), or something the Guardian Constructs made to completely overpower their living creators or even 'steer' the development of younger civilisations in order to prevent another Guardian 'infestation'.
Perhaps in order to gain access to Raxxla, you must therefore present the "guardian" with a key that represents the guardian? Just like a guard dog would recognise you as a friend if they detected their master's scent / trace elements.
The image could just be an artistic choice by the devs but I remember the black boxes from the old missions had three orbs
On another side note, the red mullet was also significant in the cult of the witch goddess Hecate.
It 'delighted in polluted things', and 'would eat the corpse of a fish or a man'. Blood-coloured itself, it was sacred to the blood-eating goddess Hecate. It seems a symbolic summation of all the negative characteristics of the creatures of the deep. - we know of a certain red-coloured omnivorous species don't we?
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I spent a long time looking in both Hecate and Terra Mater, with & without Trinkets in the ship's hold. But I didn't try with Guardian Ancient Keys...what you say makes sense so might be worth someone trying! I'm still enjoying Starfield...
still got to find a power, kill the terrormorphs, destroy the Va'ruun battleship, investigate the distress call in Charybdis, locate the missing galbank treasure ship, provide evidence against the Crimson Fleet pirates, and find the last couple of artefacts.
still got to find a power, kill the terrormorphs, destroy the Va'ruun battleship, investigate the distress call in Charybdis, locate the missing galbank treasure ship, provide evidence against the Crimson Fleet pirates, and find the last couple of artefacts.
i knew it! they arent considered pinnacle of evolution for nothing...we know of a certain red-coloured omnivorous species don't we?
I've always thought the Guardian beacons were more than just a device to give us an old key.I spent a long time looking in both Hecate and Terra Mater, with & without Trinkets in the ship's hold. But I didn't try with Guardian Ancient Keys...what you say makes sense so might be worth someone trying! I'm still enjoying Starfield...
still got to find a power, kill the terrormorphs, destroy the Va'ruun battleship, investigate the distress call in Charybdis, locate the missing galbank treasure ship, provide evidence against the Crimson Fleet pirates, and find the last couple of artefacts.
A place that is not a place, a door that is also the key
A place that is not a place
In Celtic myth the Otherworld was a realm which existed alongside our own, it was never separate, it was believed to have been all around us and yet not always accessible, nor visible to us. It was not just one place either and potentially contained multiple realms, ascribed by various names.
A door that is also the key
Access to the Otherworld, was by invitation or abduction by some deity. Those who entered by themselves were only able to do so at certain times of year, when the boundaries were lowered, or through giving or owning some type of offering, such as a magical apple or a branch bearing apples, which acted like a key.
Various references indicate there were certain entrances as well, certain trees (thorn, apple, ash, oak); fog, or water; hills; ancient burial mounds; and or mountains.
A place that is not a place
In Celtic myth the Otherworld was a realm which existed alongside our own, it was never separate, it was believed to have been all around us and yet not always accessible, nor visible to us. It was not just one place either and potentially contained multiple realms, ascribed by various names.
A door that is also the key
Access to the Otherworld, was by invitation or abduction by some deity. Those who entered by themselves were only able to do so at certain times of year, when the boundaries were lowered, or through giving or owning some type of offering, such as a magical apple or a branch bearing apples, which acted like a key.
Various references indicate there were certain entrances as well, certain trees (thorn, apple, ash, oak); fog, or water; hills; ancient burial mounds; and or mountains.
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The 'Otherworld' is also regarded by Druids as being at the centre of the cosmo's, some pagans also believe it is beneath the sea, hence the ties with water and the afterlife.
Life is a circle between all realms, a continuing path, the Otherworld (Annwn) is seen as the pathway to the terrestrial realm Abred (Midguard) where mortals live.
Again it does depend on what side of the pagan fence you are on, to me (a Druid) its a natural progression from the spirit realm (our true home) to the mortal realm, yet to others at the behest of a deity which you really have no control over, a bit like the two realms in Norse mythology:
"Warriors who die in battle end up in one of two places. Half go to join the Goddess Freyja in her heavenly realm of Fólkvangr.
The other half go to Valhalla, Odin’s glorious afterlife hall. It’s the job of the Valkyries to choose among them and bear them to Valhalla"
O7
The question is - how is the reference implemented in game?
The phrase only appears in ED via the older now removed PF/DW missions. Apart from that it’s only other use was from the original Elite games, accompanying story by Robert Holdstock, it was not an invention of Bell nor Braben.
Contextually, that phrases construction was very likely influenced by Holdstocks other works, focused upon these Celtic/Old English mythologies.
Currently, in ED if we agree the Lost Realms zone in game is a Holdstock easter egg, and given their respective relative close locations and shared relationships, I believe that’s a certainty.
These realms by Holdstock’s description are representative of lost paradises, and that the Christian ‘Eden’ taken in this consideration, was likewise another example of a lost realm. In game I believe that collectively that zone in game represents an abstract Holdstockian Otherworld.
FD then utilises two Miltonian references to describe Raxxla. A ‘jewel burning on the brow’ and the direct Milton quote about a ‘pendant world’. Together these describe the Miltonian concept of a model universe, hanging from the mountainous walls (brow) of heaven.
If Raxxla is in this zone then I believe Brookes, designed Raxxla to be another direct Holdstock reference, but he merged it with his own love for Milton; Eden as an Otherworld.
This pendant model of Milton’s had access to two portals at its zenith, one was to the gates of heaven via a retractable stair case, the other was a portal down into the interior of the encapsulated universe. That portal had no direct name, other than being a no-place situated close to the Jasper sea, the waters of creation.
The textual reference of a door/key/place/not place; I believe fits perfectly with the above Holdstockian and Miltonian concept of an Otherworld.
If this is true, and taking the perception that we now have the eyes to see this Holdstockian Otherworld, what clues exist in and around that Lost Realms zone which might illuminate Raxxla against them, or which might direct us towards it?
Holdstock talked of portals and passages to various realms in his works, particularly Ragthorn, which reflected upon the Celtic concept of Thorn trees as accessible points, or of triad goddesses, acting as guardians. In one passage he identified a missing alter, or key, which literally was a door.
Spacially when I’ve mapped these zones they do converge, logic e we oils indicate a focal point ought to be the zone of interest, but I’ve of late not found anything (in Legacy).
Is the Otherworld as a whole ‘Raxxla’; is it below this zone, hanging from its walls; is this zone simply representative of a collective ‘afterlife’ and Raxxla is actually above it, upon the path Persephone trod, or the fall of Satan, is it even higher up, past Chaos, and hangs still upon heavens brow!
A place that is not a place, a door that is also the key
I believe this phrase still has relevance in game, but how?
The phrase only appears in ED via the older now removed PF/DW missions. Apart from that it’s only other use was from the original Elite games, accompanying story by Robert Holdstock, it was not an invention of Bell nor Braben.
Contextually, that phrases construction was very likely influenced by Holdstocks other works, focused upon these Celtic/Old English mythologies.
Currently, in ED if we agree the Lost Realms zone in game is a Holdstock easter egg, and given their respective relative close locations and shared relationships, I believe that’s a certainty.
These realms by Holdstock’s description are representative of lost paradises, and that the Christian ‘Eden’ taken in this consideration, was likewise another example of a lost realm. In game I believe that collectively that zone in game represents an abstract Holdstockian Otherworld.
FD then utilises two Miltonian references to describe Raxxla. A ‘jewel burning on the brow’ and the direct Milton quote about a ‘pendant world’. Together these describe the Miltonian concept of a model universe, hanging from the mountainous walls (brow) of heaven.
If Raxxla is in this zone then I believe Brookes, designed Raxxla to be another direct Holdstock reference, but he merged it with his own love for Milton; Eden as an Otherworld.
This pendant model of Milton’s had access to two portals at its zenith, one was to the gates of heaven via a retractable stair case, the other was a portal down into the interior of the encapsulated universe. That portal had no direct name, other than being a no-place situated close to the Jasper sea, the waters of creation.
The textual reference of a door/key/place/not place; I believe fits perfectly with the above Holdstockian and Miltonian concept of an Otherworld.
If this is true, and taking the perception that we now have the eyes to see this Holdstockian Otherworld, what clues exist in and around that Lost Realms zone which might illuminate Raxxla against them, or which might direct us towards it?
Holdstock talked of portals and passages to various realms in his works, particularly Ragthorn, which reflected upon the Celtic concept of Thorn trees as accessible points, or of triad goddesses, acting as guardians. In one passage he identified a missing alter, or key, which literally was a door.
Spacially when I’ve mapped these zones they do converge, logic e we oils indicate a focal point ought to be the zone of interest, but I’ve of late not found anything (in Legacy).
Is the Otherworld as a whole ‘Raxxla’; is it below this zone, hanging from its walls; is this zone simply representative of a collective ‘afterlife’ and Raxxla is actually above it, upon the path Persephone trod, or the fall of Satan, is it even higher up, past Chaos, and hangs still upon heavens brow!
A place that is not a place, a door that is also the key
I believe this phrase still has relevance in game, but how?
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Just re-reading Terry Pratchet's Lords and Ladies - - - you're looking for a standing stone circle!
(Matches Omphalos as a "navel"!
)I've long thought FD put a lot of design effort into those beacons for the only result being an Ancient Key...might be worth further research! Perhaps we were just taking the key out of the keyhole?
He put Eden at the end of a long journey in Alpha Centauri...but perhaps something needs to be done to open the portal?
This a very interesting idea indeed: Raxxla isn't a place (i.e. a moon or planet), but it's many things (i.e. a star system or group of star systems).
Brookes said "Raxxla is something different" in relation to Founder's World being called Raxxla, and Braben said "You don't know what it is though".
Both of these phrasings are interesting since neither suggest planet. If it were a planet, they would more likely have said "you don't know where it is", or "Raxxla is somewhere different", for example. I think these replies indicate that they simply don't think of Raxxla as being a planet or moon.
Interestingly this codex paragraph:
Doesn't actually say the Rift is on Raxxla, or anything like that, it simply says the "alien artefact" is mentioned in some versions of the "Raxxla story".
In the Raxxla Codex we're encouraged to consider Atlantis, El Dorado, and the Kingdom of Prester John. Each of these locations isn't real, and each is essentially the end product of ancient legends that have been taken out of context and/or mistranslated/misunderstood. They could be said to be "places that aren't places".
Raxxla 'isn't what we think it is' could be the meaning behind this - and I think most of us would be surprised if Raxxla turned out to be a certain collection of stars.
I suppose... what if there was a particular collection of stars, and it were possible to find the centre of that cluster - the navel? That might be described as a 'place that isn't a place' too.
The Raxxla logo is essentially a depiction of a centre-point, having the icon for the Omphalos stone in the middle of it, being located in the centre of the logo, etc. If "Raxxla" is some... array... of things, and the "Omphalis Rift" is the centre of that array - given the limitations of ED at the time of launch, what could that be other than celestial objects?