The Quest To Find Raxxla

[selbie]

As an interesting speculative aside & not relevant to this analysis: Now it seems Drew Wagar and MB were buddies. Drew's novel Elite Reclamation (published May 2014, just prior to game release) started with a 3297 Imperial invasion of Prism system to obtain the fsd-essential mineral Tantalum; many called the lead character of that novel Kahina/Salomé (who was killed then resurrected) a witch! She was a natural pilot and loved deep exploration (she exposed "The Club" after checking out Rebecca's (old lady in the hospital bed) history and found the Club's lost Formdine Rift bases). The biblical Princess Salomé's dance of seven veils is very reminiscent of Ishtar's journey to the Underworld.......so was Salomé "Astrophel"? or perhaps Salomé as both whisperer and princess? . If Elite Legacy contains clues then Elite Reclamation might also, or might just be expanding the depth/breadth of the mystery?

I then added back in Sheela Na Gig, which has 6 ringed Gas Giants & 6 hotspots in a ring, & a google search showed Sheila/Sheela as a dragon name

This flagged a memory I had while reading up on my earlier map post, which might add further credence to this train of thought.

A vagabond being a Vagrant / a person in Vagrancy derives from the Latin 'to wander', and there is an account of Tudor England where some considered the vagrant beggars to be witches. Also, the name Sheela na Gig, while uncertain of its true origin, does have connections to early pre-christian pagan fertility or a female 'hag-like' figure as a ward against evil. I dare not delve into further parallels such as "jewel on the brow" or "deepest void"

Another idea that popped into my head:
It does make sense to me now why there is a common confusion here about whether to start the path in the Empyrean or Underworld.

Julia, and the dragon of her children's book share a commonality with guardianship - akin to seraphim / angels etc.
Julia took on the guardianship of Freeholm - both as a choice, but also "forced" upon her by circumstance.
The Princess of Julia's book and Astrophel of the codex both imply nobility - in other words, adjacent to power / gods. Similarly Julia was a reluctant 'heir' to Freeholm from Darik.
Seraphs / Angels have the imagery of winged celestial beings crying 'holy holy', near the seat of god etc.
If we consider the dragon, a winged mythological being, in Julia's story from the heroes perspective, it is easy to associate it with 'evil' - imprisoning the princess, requiring rescue by a hero.

However, Seraphim are also referenced in texts such as Enoch as 'creatures', or Akyest, or Chalkydri (brazen serpent) and, in the latter greek sense, associated with hell.
So from the perspective of 'evil', this dragon can also be an angel / seraph / Akyest guarding the princess of evil - Sin.
Satan and Sin also fit the codex toast as both "parents" - of Death, and "lovers" - ie. incestuous conception forced upon Sin.

It is possible there is a duality to this mystery that requires it to be viewed from BOTH angles.
"Those with eyes to see" - Human eyes are positioned at two different points to perceive depth. Therefore, it may mean we won't see the totality of this mystery until we consider it from both positions and find where it "points" to a 3rd perspective - perhaps the "Lost Worlds" / liminal / other spaces ?? The Paradise of Fools?

Satan fell on a "path" (of sin) to Hell - Below. He then forged a path to heaven - Above. As above, so below.
Sin experienced grief and woe at the gates of Hell the same as Eve did in Paradise, a matter of perspective.

Just as our frameshift drives "shift the frame of reality", it is possible that a narrative frame story is being used here to cast doubt on which path is "true", thus telling us to look at both to bring something into focus. This narrative device can also be used in the form of procatalepsis (just like the linked example of Princess Bride, Legacy ends from the perspective of the grandfather, Rex), as well as Dream Visions - obviously an easy connection to Jasmina Halsey.

Not that I'm saying this frame shifting has a direct relationship to the clues, but more like a plausible relationship to the idea of combining different narratives to 'filter' things to see a clearer truth - the 'state of cosmic enlightenment' - to find the unremarkable moon - aka Raxxla.

 

[Han_Zen]

Ok, that suggests it's time for me to openly disclose my current theory, Which is:
1) Raxxla is located within Alliance space (lead character Julia strongly hints at this in MB's Elite Legacy novel); this seems to be supported by the Paradise Lost cosmography identified by @Rochester in-game, where God's realm (the Empyrean) seems to be located in Alliance space (above Fall and Gateway systems)...assuming we are looking for "Paradise"/Milton's "pendent world" as possibly hinted by the final tourist beacon in the Brookes Memorial Tour.
2) the book title mentioned in the codex "Princess Astrophel and the Spiralling Stars" contains a subanagram of the system within which Raxxla is concealed.
3) a further possibility is that the book title is the same as MB's Elite Legacy description of Julia's children's book as “about a young man’s quest to save a princess from an alien dragon”. Hence the system name may reflect something related to an "alien dragon", but my confidence in this particular hypothesis is limited.
4) The garden design from Li Qing Jao station in Sol is a visual clue. I have already shown that the toast could have been meant to lead us to that station.


I did a Spansh search on systems (around 1500 results) within 66ly of Alioth to capture all in Alliance space. I then put these into a spreadsheet and wrote a subroutine to check for system name as an anagram of that book title. That whittled the possibilities down to around 100. I then went through EDSM and checked which of those had ringed bodies (list whittled down to 57), since the Li Qing Jao space station garden design middle and final panels seems to hint at a system containing a ringed body with 6 features (I suspect mineral hotspots). I then checked those 57 systems to find those that have 6 hotspots, whittling down to 13 candidate systems. I then added back in Sheela Na Gig, which has 6 ringed Gas Giants & 6 hotspots in a ring, & a google search showed Sheila/Sheela as a dragon name, however the system name is not a subanagram of "Princess Astrophel.." & it doesn't seem to fit the garden design, so I discount this as a probable solution. Photos I took of the 6-spot rings are in Imgur...

The final results are here:

System name prime candidate has 6 spotsin a ring-in red text in original sheet!	Distance (LY)	Notes	# Mineral hotspots	Screenshots
Alioth	0.00	4 ringed GG, #2 6 moons	#! A ring 1, B ring 0 #2 A ring 4 #3 A ring 10, B ring 12 #4 A ring 9
Alcor	6.05	5 ringed planets. AB1(T8 brown dwarf)-11 moons	A1 A ring 9 A2 A ring 9 A3 A ring 4 A4 A ring 1 A5 A ring 15, B ring 2 AB1 A ring 4
Pie	12.76	2 ringed GG	A2 A ring 13, B ring 9 A3 A ring 4
Sheela Na Gig	13.20	6RGG, #5 9 moons. Sheela/Sheila added to Dict1 though NOT a subanagram of ""Princess…" (short of a ""G"")	#1 A ring 4, B ring 6 #2 A ring 2, B ring 2 #3 A ring 0, B ring 8 #4 A ring 0, B ring 5 #5 A ring 0 #6 A ring 4, B ring 0	Source: https://imgur.com/p1DoNYo
Olgrea	15.88	ABC1 ringed GG & 12th moon ringed	ABC1 A ring 5 ABC1L A ring 2
Hera	17.38	1 ringed GG.	#3 A ring 2, B ring 6	Source: https://imgur.com/742aIEW
Adenets	17.50	3 ringed GG.	#8 A ring 2 #9 A ring 8 #10 A ring 1
Dhanhopi	28.55	1 ringed GG	A8 A ring 1
Parcae	31.10	2 ringed GG. #7 has 9 moons. First Discoverer "Princess Luna"	#4 A ring 21 #5 A ring 2

Theta Draconis	35.43	1 ringed GG	#3 A ring 17, B ring 3
Dahan	37.95	2 ringed GG. only system with 3-ringed planet? (& oddly numbered)? Hathor has LTD spot…Hathor sundisk on brow! Coltan=FSD Tantalum mineral, Wanderer=Vagabond	#2 (Hathor) A ring 6 #3 A ring 1, B ring 1, C ring 0	https://imgur.com/a/WmvYQ1P https://imgur.com/HiGsHiW
Pared	38.06	1 ringed planet	B11 A ring 0
Lalande 30699	39.87	1 ringed GG.	#3 A ring 6, B ring 10	Source: https://imgur.com/xqLdT4j
Honii	42.44	2 ringed GG. Very faint rings!	CD1 A ring 0, B ring 8 CD2 A ring 0, B ring 6	Source: https://imgur.com/qA263Fv
Lotia	43.40	2 ringed GG. A3-8 moons	#1 A ring 8, B ring 24 A3 A ring 19, B ring 0
Perendi	44.55	3 ringed GG.	#2 A ring 0
Ceri	45.95	4 ringed GG, #1-6 moons	#1 A ring 8 #2 A ring 0 #3 A ring 1, B ring 0 #5 A ring 5
Indrians	46.45	1 ringed GG	#3 A ring 2
SPOCS 495	46.88	1 ringed GG. #3-8 moons	#2 A ring 16, B ring 1

Calili	47.13	3 RGG, #3 6 moons, #4 -11 moons	#3 A ring 3 #4 A ring 4 #5 A ring 0
Apala	48.41	1 RGG	#3 A ring 8, B ring 0
Aganippe	48.49	1 RGG	#6 A ring 11
Ehlangai	48.58	3RGG.	#4 A ring 5, B ring 6 #5 A ring 3 #7 A ring 1	Source: https://imgur.com/Y6GLbpj
Peltan	50.59	2RGG, both a long way out!	C8 A ring 0, B ring 2 C9 A ring 0
26 Draconis	51.87	2RGG	#2 A ring 2, B ring 0 #4 A ring 3, B ring 0
Sons	52.39	3RGG, #4 6 moons	#2 A ring 4 #3 A ring 6, B ring 2 #4 A ring 0, B ring 3	Source: https://imgur.com/mvU2zaD
Acan	52.52	2ringed bodies	#A14 A ring 1 #A15 A ring 0
Seelet	55.77	1RGG	AB1 A ring 3
Tollan	55.78	7 ringed bodies, #4&6-6 moons.	#1 A ring 8, B ring 0 #2 A ring 10 #3 A ring 8, B ring 4 #4 A ring 5 #6 A ring 0, B ring 2 #7 A ring 0, B ring 0

35 Draconis	56.02	1RGG, 6+moons.	#2 A ring 18, B ring 5
Disci	56.39	2RGG	A1 A ring 3, B ring 2 A3 A ring 0
Carnsan	56.73	2RGG. 4+2 hotspots=6?	#10 A ring 6, B ring 3 #11 A ring 2, B ring 4
Chond	56.76	2 ringed bodies	#3 A ring 1 #5 A ring 1, B ring 4
Hepa	56.93	6 ringed bodies Brown Dwarf (T) so a dark system	#1 A ring 5 #2 A ring 2 #3 A ring 2, B ring 1 #4 A ring 2, B ring 17 #5 A ring 4 #6 A ring 2
Adepti	57.50	4 ringed bodies, 6 moons	A3 A ring 1 A4 A ring 8 A5 A ring 5 A6 A ring 19
Coelrind	59.11	2RBodies. #1 & #2 both have 9 moons.	#2 A ring 4, B ring 3 #4 A ring 7
Lenore	59.19	4RB, 6 moons	#A1 A ring 6, B ring 4 #A2 A ring 0 #A5 A ring 0 #A5a A ring 1, B ring 0	Source: https://imgur.com/hFBreYR
Shernteniai	59.20	4RGG	#6 A ring 13, B ring 11 #7 A ring 0, B ring 0 #8 A ring 0, B ring 1 #10 A ring 3, B ring 16
LP Draconis	59.23	2RGG.	AB2 A ring 1, B ring 5 AB3 A ring 5

Harpai	59.76	2RGG. #3-9 moons.	#3 A ring 3, B ring 15 #5 A ring 6	Source: https://imgur.com/ZLtEbYC
Tilian	60.08	2RGG, 6 moons	#2 A ring 2 #3 A ring 2
Latoras	60.36	2RGG	#8 A ring 7, B ring 15 #10 A ring 14, B ring 1
40 Leonis	61.20	3RGG	#1 A ring 21 #2 A ring 7, B ring 2 #3 A ring 5 #3a A ring 9 #6 A ring 8, B ring 2
Har Pa Hsin	61.35	5RGG	#1 A ring 0, B ring 3 #2 A ring 0, B ring 1 #3 A ring 2 , B ring 14 #4 A ring 0 #5 A ring 10, B ring 10
Chapo	61.45	3RGG. AB3-9 moons	AB3 A ring 30, B ring 8 AB4 A ring 1, B ring 0 AB5 A ring 4
Etain	61.69	5RGG.	#1 A ring 1, B ring 1 #2 A ring 9, B ring 1 #3 A ring 0, B ring 0 #4 A ring 0, B ring 3 #5 A ring 0, B ring 4
OT Serpentis	61.71	1RBody, Garden! Paradise Lost! (Sin, Serpent). Only "serpent" within Alliance space!	ABC1 A ring 6, B ring 5	Source: https://imgur.com/5EvA1xG
Chandra	62.26	1RGG	AB1 A ring 3
Haritis	62.72	2RGG.	#4 A ring 4, B ring 2 #5 A ring 6, B ring 6	Source: https://imgur.com/9W1bL6x

Lalande 13942	63.14	2RGG.	#3 A ring 1, B ring 1 #4 A ring 6, B ring 5	Source: https://imgur.com/csFgUxF
Dhata	63.17	3RB	#1 A ring 1 #4 A ring 17, B ring 3 #5 A ring 3, B ring 3
Daori	63.36	3RGG	#2 A ring 0, B ring 17 #3 A ring 2 #5 A ring 5
Tacana	64.80	2RGG. CNB & high in Empyrean	A8 A ring 1, B ring 10 A9 A ring 6, B ring 9	Source: https://imgur.com/bkZ75XS
Altais	65.21	3RB.	#2 A ring 7, B ring 15 #3 A ring 6 #4 A ring 0	Source: https://imgur.com/fH0occU
Ining	65.29	1RBody	AB1 A ring 3
Eta Cephei	65.69	4RB.	#1 A ring 0, B ring 2 #2 A ring 14 #3 A ring 13, B ring 11 #5 A ring 0, B ring 1 #6 A ring 1, B ring 0

I think this analysis has whittled down the prime candidate Raxxla systems to a mere two:
1) OT Serpentis
2) Dahan

OT Serpentis is my leading contender. It just seems so right in view of MB's love of Milton! It has 1 Ringed Body. Ringed body ABC1 and the system map seems to exactly match the 4 bodies apparently shown in the Garden middle panel. It complies with Paradise Lost mythology! -the system name contains as subanagrams both "Sin" (Satan's daughter, so the Princess of Hell, and Satan was a fallen star ("for those with eyes to see and ears to hear" it sounds like "astro fell"!) and "Serpent" (Satan's form when whispering temptation to Eve, and "Serpent" is another name for "Dragon", specifically the Chinese Teng/Long dragon). It is also the only "serpent" named system within Alliance space. OT Serpentis C also has an A belt with 3 clusters which I checked, but nothing found!


It seems Dahan system was so named from the outset of the game. "Dahan" is a subanagram of "princessastrophel..." Dahan could mean "the Han dragon" (as in "boyz from da hood") & "han" is the dragon that became the emblem of the Chinese Han Dynasty. Dahan planet 2 is named Hathor ( an ancient Egyptian goddess, mother and consort of the sky god, she wore a headdress of a sundisk, hence "jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies") . Moon 2a is named "Coltan", a metallic ore source of Tantalum (essential to FSD drives). Hathor's fifth moon is named "Wanderer" , i.e. "vagabond" (from the orrery it has an odd orbit, not coplanar with the other moons, so could be a captured rogue body or moon-sized 'ark ship'). Third moon ("Smithy's claim") has Coriolis station Dahan Gateway. Following Wanderer in the system map is planet 3 a triple-ringed gas giant (sole example in-game? also R1, R2, R3 is unusual ring naming) ...system reserves are supposedly depleted (not convinced from what I see with Pulse Wave Analyser), hence less likely to attract miners-obfuscation? Dahan system is a good fit for the middle garden design if the moons are ignored (obfuscation?). There is an empty path through the outer edge of Hathor's LTD spot -presumably something has swept a clear path? and presumably it will have acquired an LTD coating, which might match the Raxxla logo dark shapes?


So I'm toying with the possibility that MB repurposed the Dahan system name clues (in-game from 2014 release) to generate the December 2018 codex's Alleged Toast, which more specifically pointed us to the garden design, pointing to Paradise Lost cospmography, pointing to Alliance space for the Emprean, though of course it could have been intended all along and "the codex toast" was intended to be a strong hint..I think he was frustrated we had not found his little easter egg after he had clearly put a lot of effort into the in-game storyline!


As an interesting speculative aside & not relevant to this analysis: Now it seems Drew Wagar and MB were buddies. Drew's novel Elite Reclamation (published May 2014, just prior to game release) started with a 3297 Imperial invasion of Prism system to obtain the fsd-essential mineral Tantalum; many called the lead character of that novel Kahina/Salomé (who was killed then resurrected) a witch! She was a natural pilot and loved deep exploration (she exposed "The Club" after checking out Rebecca's (old lady in the hospital bed) history and found the Club's lost Formdine Rift bases). The biblical Princess Salomé's dance of seven veils is very reminiscent of Ishtar's journey to the Underworld.......so was Salomé "Astrophel"? or perhaps Salomé as both whisperer and princess? . If Elite Legacy contains clues then Elite Reclamation might also, or might just be expanding the depth/breadth of the mystery?


In either case I think Raxxla is hidden within one of the planetary rings in OT Serpentis or Dahan. The former has one possible ringed planet, but the latter has two ringed planets and the directionality that may be implicit in the Toast could point to one of Dahan 3's rings, or it could be Hathor. I have been looking in both systems with no success- it is hidden very well! I have also had a quick look at Wanderer to see if it might be hollow but nothing obvious (mm, didnt check the comparitive density!). Also scanned Dahan Gateway repeatedly-no response. BUT the Pendent World quote from Milton's Paradise Lost MB's favourite book!) is used in the final tourist beacon of the Brookes Memorial Tour and ends "This pendant world, in bigness as a star. Of smallest magnitude close by the moon" -has had me wondering today if it (or the "Omphalos Gateway" to it) is something very small and close to a moon (possibly Wanderer)....either in OT Serpentis or Dahan.

The difficulty in finally resolving this puzzle and locating Raxxla is the fuzziness of the Raxxla logo, and the right panel of the garden design! Do they contain specific location meaning? I have toyed with the possibility that the 33 dots in the Raxxla logo is an indication of orbital circumference as a hint to the orbital radius to search at, & of course the white spaces between those black dots might or might not be significant. It could be a circular 33 or a hexagonal, and the distance could be Mmetres or light seconds. I think this suggests potential search radii at:
circular:
10.5ls, 5.25ls, 5,252Km, 10,500Km
hexagonal:
5.196ls, 4.33ls, 5,196Km, 4,330Km
10.39ls, 8.66ls, 10,392Km (0.035ls), 8,660Km (0.0288ls)

If that gives anyone encouragement in the Quest then my personal journey is complete! I've been looking around in these two systems for the last couple of weeks, on & off, but in real life I really must catch up on major DIY that was put on hold last September when 43kg of a chocolate Labrador lummox jumped on the bed during the small hours, landed on my knee and ruptured the meniscus and ligament....

Dahan is interesting. Although it's not really in Alliance space, it's one of the original Beta systems from the Eranin bubble. I think it was in game from Beta 1 (I didn't play until Beta 2).
It's almost to early for the 'In game since Gamma' comment. Not that it matters, as systems were reseeded between pre-release versions. This meant that the systems / names stayed, but the content (planets and stations) of the system would change completely.

 

[Rochester]

Currently investigating penal colonies.

“The Beaumont system was a frontier world far below Achenar.” Elite Legacy.

In game below Achenar there is a tight fulcrum of several such colonies. I find this interesting. Visually when filters are applied these look suspicious due to their formation, and general distance to other systems of note, although there’s probably a simple lore / logic reasoning for this.

I do wonder if said ‘beautiful mountain’ is hidden somewhere close here (if it’s not simply metaphorical or just unrelated). A few of them have odd names so I wonder what relevance that might hold however I can’t recall if such system types existed early on in game or if they were added much later?

Fell asleep during warp and ended up in deep space someplace unremarkable, so may hobble back and get some proper g-sleep at a local port.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Dahan is interesting. Although it's not really in Alliance space, it's one of the original Beta systems from the Eranin bubble. I think it was in game from Beta 1 (I didn't play until Beta 2).
It's almost to early for the 'In game since Gamma' comment. Not that it matters, as systems were reseeded between pre-release versions. This meant that the systems / names stayed, but the content (planets and stations) of the system would change completely.

Well, I sort of agree. I took Alliance space as lying within 66ly of Alioth. Now the Alliance bubble should have been smaller at the game's release, however it would not have been a regular sphere, there would have been fuzziness of the boundary and isolated systems within the boundary would have been Independent, & possibly Federation. However I deliberately set this boundary definition wide enough to ensure capture the Raxxla system from the Elite Legacy clue...I didn't want any bias in my own thinking to affect the early phase of the analysis; though of course in the final stage my preference for those two systems is bias, based on my view of MB's love of Paradise Lost symbology and my perception of similarity between the Toast and Dahan's system map.

The one proviso I have about this theory is that both OT Serpentis and Dahan are below the floor of @Rochester 's Empyrean, but I thought God had moved Paradise into the Empyrean (@Rochester -where does this idea come from? Haven't seen it in Paradise Lost, but then I skim read poetry) after the Fall of Adam & Eve - so I would have expected the Raxxla system to be located above it. They are both, however, above the level of Sol. When conducting this analysis I bookmarked the candidate systems and the spatial spread was interesting, and I did remark in my table notes that one candidate (Tacana, 64 from Alioth, 135 from Sol, 59 above Fall on the Empyrean floor ) is particularly high, though I didn't see anything particularly interesting there.

The livestream of Edifying Will Flanagan: Exo (at 31mins40, m.youtube.com/watch?v=46QzuI83v0c ) seems to strongly hint that the solution is hidden in a planetary ring somewhere, and I think I've narrowed the choices down significantly- three ringed bodies in two systems only some 25ly apart. BUT searching planetary rings is a long slow job (which I find quite tedious!) and I suspect MB made the actual reveal rather difficult. It could be based on an RNG function (remember how difficult they were set early in the game!), and I strongly suspect from MB's first Fiction Diary livestream (at 7mins30, m.youtube.com/watch?v=O6z5OK8J5pg ) that carrying Trinkets of Hidden Fortune is also necessary, but they're pure pirate bait, so an ironaass ship & maybe a wing of searchers might be a good idea.

Just found in my notes that during the old (long since deleted) Elite missions at Shinrarta- Cmdr Dop3fish killed a wanted Hauler in Chakpa and it dropped loads of Trinkets of Hidden Fortune...so perhaps the real purpose of those missions was to hint that Trinkets are required for the solution?

Edit:
@Rochester -you might want to look at my table above and see if any candidate systems stand out (intentional pun! ) wrt mountains!

@Han_Zen wrt to distance from Alioth: A thought has just occured- Raxxla is /was a rumour. And as @Ian Doncaster suggested the other day could have started by a dying explorer mumbling some words on his deathbed after returning to civilisation. If that explorer was based in Alliance space then the distance of those two systems from Alioth is explainable, ~60ly is a reasonable distance for deep space exploration in the early days after the colonisation of Alioth in 2452 ...Alliance was founded in 3230, Elite Legacy is set in 3301, so the rumour might well have passed to Julia that something valuable/unusual called Raxxla had been found in Alliance space long ago.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

There are two factions reporting 0 population that are natives

There's no in-game assignment of population to factions at all [1], so all this means from an Inara perspective is that those factions don't control any systems in the BGS.
Since only one faction can control Alioth and all of the other nearby systems are unlocked and available for players to change the controlling faction, it's almost inevitable that most of Alioth's native factions control no systems themselves.

and New Growth. Party

"Natural Growth Party" is the faction name.

[1] Or if there is, it's entirely invisible and likely done at the station level. Station populations aren't directly visible and are rarely practical to deduce indirectly either, so Inara can't estimate that, but there's nothing particularly unusual about a faction not owning stations either, especially in systems where players are deliberately moving station ownership (though both of those factions do own some, as it happens)

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

There's no in-game assignment of population to factions at all [1], so all this means from an Inara perspective is that those factions don't control any systems in the BGS.
Since only one faction can control Alioth and all of the other nearby systems are unlocked and available for players to change the controlling faction, it's almost inevitable that most of Alioth's native factions control no systems themselves.


"Natural Growth Party" is the faction name.

[1] Or if there is, it's entirely invisible and likely done at the station level. Station populations aren't directly visible and are rarely practical to deduce indirectly either, so Inara can't estimate that, but there's nothing particularly unusual about a faction not owning stations either, especially in systems where players are deliberately moving station ownership (though both of those factions do own some, as it happens)

The only time I have seen 0 population figures outside or lore important minor faction (e.g. Achilles Corporation in Thule*) is the case of prison systems. It doesn't seem based on stations because in some systems like Fomalhaut have insanely low population figures for the amount of stations and settlements.

* - I presently have no viable explanation for Achilles Corporation being in Thule unless the Alliance is attempting to disguise what they are doing. However, implications there are this is being coordinated with the Empire as Thule is solidly Imperial (all natives are Imperial).

 

[Han_Zen]

@Han_Zen wrt to distance from Alioth: A thought has just occured- Raxxla is /was a rumour. And as @Ian Doncaster suggested the other day could have started by a dying explorer mumbling some words on his deathbed after returning to civilisation. If that explorer was based in Alliance space then the distance of those two systems from Alioth is explainable, ~60ly is a reasonable distance for deep space exploration in the early days after the colonisation of Alioth in 2452 ...Alliance was founded in 3230, Elite Legacy is set in 3301, so the rumour might well have passed to Julia that something valuable/unusual called Raxxla had been found in Alliance space long ago.

When i hear Alliance space in that context, I think of the Old worlds / Lave region. It would be a bit strange if FD made the Raxxla mystery without any connection to that part of space.
The Old words were moved up where they are now, between FFE and ED. They probably had a reason for doing that, other than the leet Right ascension of Lave.
Right ascension: 13h 37m 12.643s / Declination: -36° 46'56.66''

Perhaps Raxxla is at 76?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The only time I have seen 0 population figures outside or lore important minor faction (e.g. Achilles Corporation in Thule*) is the case of prison systems. It doesn't seem based on stations because in some systems like Fomalhaut have insanely low population figures for the amount of stations and settlements.

Stations don't necessarily have to have particularly high populations - especially not hand-placed ones. Fomalhaut is particularly impressive for the number of low-population stations it has ... but if you look at the station markets, the economy size is also tiny: Cooke Station has just 636t of Hydrogen Fuel [1] available, which is lower than most Odyssey settlements which are themselves smaller than almost all normal stations (~1200 people each, based on the population changes observed with the Odyssey release).

Jaques - before he went off to Colonia - was flying an Orbis with 75 population, after all.

0 population for a system that is otherwise showing signs of being inhabited, and especially if it has minor faction presence, yes, that's very rare and unusual and needs more investigation. ("No stations" being an obvious proximate explanation, if not really answering the question)


0 population for a faction on Inara (again, this is just a metric Inara has made up, not something directly observed from in-game data) ... picking a random LHS system:

LHS 1071 - star system | Elite:Dangerous | INARA

The companion site for Elite:Dangerous with the game database, market data, trade routes, outfitting, engineers, blueprints, crafting, Thargoid war, squadrons, logbooks, galleries, galaxy information and much more...

inara.cz

...all five native factions have no "residents" on Inara because nearby player-supported factions have crushed them all out of system control. I could get the same results in a very substantial fraction of systems.



[1] The most reliable way to make a guess at station population is indirectly via Hydrogen Fuel amounts, because it has very low variance from other causes. Doing that for all stations in a system tends to give an answer within a few percent of the total system population for non-anomalous systems.

 

[Rochester]

Well, I sort of agree. I took Alliance space as lying within 66ly of Alioth. Now the Alliance bubble should have been smaller at the game's release, however it would not have been a regular sphere, there would have been fuzziness of the boundary and isolated systems within the boundary would have been Independent, & possibly Federation. However I deliberately set this boundary definition wide enough to ensure capture the Raxxla system from the Elite Legacy clue...I didn't want any bias in my own thinking to affect the early phase of the analysis; though of course in the final stage my preference for those two systems is bias, based on my view of MB's love of Paradise Lost symbology and my perception of similarity between the Toast and Dahan's system map.

The one proviso I have about this theory is that both OT Serpentis and Dahan are below the floor of @Rochester 's Empyrean, but I thought God had moved Paradise into the Empyrean (@Rochester -where does this idea come from? Haven't seen it in Paradise Lost, but then I skim read poetry) after the Fall of Adam & Eve - so I would have expected the Raxxla system to be located above it. They are both, however, above the level of Sol. When conducting this analysis I bookmarked the candidate systems and the spatial spread was interesting, and I did remark in my table notes that one candidate (Tacana, 64 from Alioth, 135 from Sol, 59 above Fall on the Empyrean floor ) is particularly high, though I didn't see anything particularly interesting there.

The livestream of Edifying Will Flanagan: Exo (at 31mins40, m.youtube.com/watch?v=46QzuI83v0c ) seems to strongly hint that the solution is hidden in a planetary ring somewhere, and I think I've narrowed the choices down significantly- three ringed bodies in two systems only some 25ly apart. BUT searching planetary rings is a long slow job (which I find quite tedious!) and I suspect MB made the actual reveal rather difficult. It could be based on an RNG function (remember how difficult they were set early in the game!), and I strongly suspect from MB's first Fiction Diary livestream (at 7mins30, m.youtube.com/watch?v=O6z5OK8J5pg ) that carrying Trinkets of Hidden Fortune is also necessary, but they're pure pirate bait, so an ironaass ship & maybe a wing of searchers might be a good idea.

Just found in my notes that during the old (long since deleted) Elite missions at Shinrarta- Cmdr Dop3fish killed a wanted Hauler in Chakpa and it dropped loads of Trinkets of Hidden Fortune...so perhaps the real purpose of those missions was to hint that Trinkets are required for the solution?

Edit:
@Rochester -you might want to look at my table above and see if any candidate systems stand out (intentional pun! ) wrt mountains!

@Han_Zen wrt to distance from Alioth: A thought has just occured- Raxxla is /was a rumour. And as @Ian Doncaster suggested the other day could have started by a dying explorer mumbling some words on his deathbed after returning to civilisation. If that explorer was based in Alliance space then the distance of those two systems from Alioth is explainable, ~60ly is a reasonable distance for deep space exploration in the early days after the colonisation of Alioth in 2452 ...Alliance was founded in 3230, Elite Legacy is set in 3301, so the rumour might well have passed to Julia that something valuable/unusual called Raxxla had been found in Alliance space long ago.

Well I think the concept is insinuated rather than described narratively. I think it’s alluded that was the original objective of the ‘big plan’ before the fall. But not entirely sure if it actually happened?

The entire theology is rather odd, especially when it’s identified that everything ‘happens’ outside of time, but everything happens chronologically, many parts are I suspect intentionally in opposition and a contradiction, as Milton states some things are beyond man’s ken.

I’m no theologian.

So originally I suspect it was to be raised above everything, as the new heaven, that was the ‘original plan’ but then Satans fall occurred - but ironically everything is pre-known and by gods own design, no one has free will. So it’s technically all laid out to fail from the outset… it raises more questions than answers. I think that’s the point. Because Milton paints god as rather negatively and manipulative (although that’s probably a 21st perspective).

So in theory yes, it was ‘going to be raised up’ but the last we see, it’s still on earth as Michael evicted it’s tenants and the pendant globe is fixed in place by Satans viaduct.

So if represented in game alongside a Miltonian model, it logically should be just below the Empyrean, or just on the outer rim of Chaos, or both; probably on the North / Eastern wall?

 

[Macros Black]

OT Serpentis was a bust for me. Searched the belt clusters, little activity with miners/pirates nothing major. System has lots of degraded emissions threat 0 only.

Sending Silent Sphere Song to Dahan...

 

[Louis Calvert]

First and foremost I am certainly not trying to dissuade you from your investigation. If investigations reveal a clearer signal that has a similar intensity and clarity as the LS itself which proves beyond doubt there is something there, that is beneficial for everyone. I no longer have my own recordings because there was nothing to me that showed any noticeable improvement in the signal readings - this included tweaking the spectrogram settings. I am aware that does not help your investigation, so I apologise for not considering sending those through at the time.

Some clarification on what I actually did, so as to mitigate any misrepresentation:
I took multiple ~5-10 min recordings around 2000-2500 LY both east and west of the bubble.
They were pointed directly toward Sag A* and were in high quality FLAC format.
My camera was over 1000 metres from the ship, located far away from the local star and placed the star behind me to avoid any potential interference.
I had also studied your siren recordings from 2023, even the ones facing away from the signal. This included checking left and right channels independently.
These are the recording file names so you can check the audio I'm referring to:
A
A1
A1:2
A1:4
A1:-2
A1:-4
A1:A
A1: D
A1:-Y
A1:-W
B1
B
C1
C1:2
C1:4
C1:6
C1:8
C1:B

I would advise that your specified of 8192 window size in my view is hindering any potential visibility because a higher window size only enhances the very low frequencies.
1024, 2048, and 4096 are the sweet spots for the upper, middle and lower zones of the signals respectively.

I also checked dozens of your hyperspace recordings of 28 Nov 2023 to see, like you say, if hardware was a factor in somehow revealing it differently, and to independently look at it with different eyes. Nothing was visible to me in the background noise that wasn't a product of pareidolia. So at the very least, you can take this information as a data point for your investigation regardless of its validity in your eyes.

Thanks for the reply.

I suppose time will tell.

 

[Ataxia]

Bringing a few things across..

For a few science things I'm working on, some defimately require a tin hat...

Systems and signals to check;

Due to a rabbit hole about thorn turning to TZO stars;
NR - not found at this time,
Likely cannidates found listed (found from edsm)

I will be planning a tour for any bubble local objects and include distances as well as signals found in the area's.

I also plan to check the landscape signal from the reacheable locations.

BD+61 2536 (TIC 470710327)
NR

GRO J1655-40
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/53353/name/V1033+Scorpii>

VZ Sagittarii
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/41408/name/V4641+Sagittarii>

U Aquarii
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/19359/name/Upsilon+Aquarii>

KN Cassiopeiae
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/2301735/name/Kappa+Cassiopeiae>

IO Persei
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/17724/name/Iota+Persei>

V595 Cassiopeiae ** location issues **
Based on a parallax of 1.37, V595 Cassiopeiae distance from Earth can be calculated at being 2,380.75 light years away or -9090.91 parsecs.
?- V509 Cassiopeiae (V509 Cas or HR 8752) is one of two yellow hypergiant stars found in the constellation Cassiopeia, which also contains Rho Cassiopeiae.

HV 11417
- in small magellon cloud

HV 2112
- in small magellon cloud

---------

As for the station ae signal, there is a decoder script for it, trying to find it - seems to elude me at this time.

It breaks the symbols down into alpha numeric A-Z, 1-0.

I have the hex dump of one stations audio tx that I've looked at and it could be a cypher but until some kind of comsistancy can be found decrypting this one will take more time.


Found it..

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

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Long ago cmdrs noticed the signals inside the stations near the back on the axis. I remember reading this and everyone thought that this was in reference to the numbers written on the outside of the stations. Reading it now it is pretty clear this is in reference to the code in the antenna since numbers painted on the outside of the station are not "transmitted". It is unlikely that the characters are the only encoded message.

Interesting comment by DB about Stations

In the PS4 launch media circus : “I think the last game I completed was perhaps Everybody’s Gone to the Rapture. It’s quite a strange, very relaxed game, but by the end I was desperate to know what was going on. I’d gotten a bit hung up on the strange number sequences you get during the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

To record (need to provide better details):
1. Dock at station and remain on the surface
2. Turn off all in game music
3. Go into free cam and move toward the back of the station at the center
4. Open Audacity and record using a loopback
5. set the track to Spectrogram

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

When i hear Alliance space in that context, I think of the Old worlds / Lave region. It would be a bit strange if FD made the Raxxla mystery without any connection to that part of space.
The Old words were moved up where they are now, between FFE and ED. They probably had a reason for doing that, other than the leet Right ascension of Lave.
Right ascension: 13h 37m 12.643s / Declination: -36° 46'56.66''

Perhaps Raxxla is at 76?

Mmm, but IIRC someone at FD said ED is standalone, not reliant on any previous lore- I think they tried to align things with previous versions but I don't think they would have felt constrained by them.

Old Worlds

The Old Worlds are a historic region within the core systems that was first discovered and settled in the early 25th century. It found prosperity as a major producer of hydrogen fuel and developed its own distinct culture before becoming the nexus of the Galactic Cooperative. GalCop's collapse...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

In ED Lave is 144ly from Alioth, so a guesstimate of 66ly for Alliance space is fairly conservative, however Lave was the hub of GALCOP. From the Wiki "The demise of GalCop led to the decline of the Old Worlds, which remained stagnant well into the 3300's, but also fostered the eventual rise of the Alliance out of the Alioth system in 3230" -(sourced as Elite Premonition). So Lave in ED has no bearing on Alliance space.

In my analysis I wanted to stay away from any pre- or mis-conceptions from what may or may not be lore. I used what we have been given and fairly identifiable as potential clues.

I do suspect that Simulacrae might have a point- it may be worth reconsidering those other garden designs in Li Qing Jao to see if anything else Raxxla-related can be inferred. I focused on the obvious Paradise Lost garden & thought the other gardens were just decoration, but...?

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

Well I think the concept is insinuated rather than described narratively. I think it’s alluded that was the original objective of the ‘big plan’ before the fall. But not entirely sure if it actually happened?

The entire theology is rather odd, especially when it’s identified that everything ‘happens’ outside of time, but everything happens chronologically, many parts are I suspect intentionally in opposition and a contradiction, as Milton states some things are beyond man’s ken.

I’m no theologian.

So originally I suspect it was to be raised above everything, as the new heaven, that was the ‘original plan’ but then Satans fall occurred - but ironically everything is pre-known and by gods own design, no one has free will. So it’s technically all laid out to fail from the outset… it raises more questions than answers. I think that’s the point. Because Milton paints god as rather negatively and manipulative (although that’s probably a 21st perspective).

So in theory yes, it was ‘going to be raised up’ but the last we see, it’s still on earth as Michael evicted it’s tenants and the pendant globe is fixed in place by Satans viaduct.

So if represented in game alongside a Miltonian model, it logically should be just below the Empyrean, or just on the outer rim of Chaos, or both; probably on the North / Eastern wall?

If it's still on Earth and held in place by Satan's Viaduct I suspect it may be in North Yorkshire!

 

[Louis Calvert]

Bringing a few things across..

For a few science things I'm working on, some defimately require a tin hat...

Systems and signals to check;

Due to a rabbit hole about thorn turning to TZO stars;
NR - not found at this time,
Likely cannidates found listed (found from edsm)

I will be planning a tour for any bubble local objects and include distances as well as signals found in the area's.

I also plan to check the landscape signal from the reacheable locations.

BD+61 2536 (TIC 470710327)
NR

GRO J1655-40
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/53353/name/V1033+Scorpii>

VZ Sagittarii
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/41408/name/V4641+Sagittarii>

U Aquarii
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/19359/name/Upsilon+Aquarii>

KN Cassiopeiae
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/2301735/name/Kappa+Cassiopeiae>

IO Persei
<https://www.edsm.net/en/system/id/17724/name/Iota+Persei>

V595 Cassiopeiae ** location issues **
Based on a parallax of 1.37, V595 Cassiopeiae distance from Earth can be calculated at being 2,380.75 light years away or -9090.91 parsecs.
?- V509 Cassiopeiae (V509 Cas or HR 8752) is one of two yellow hypergiant stars found in the constellation Cassiopeia, which also contains Rho Cassiopeiae.

HV 11417
- in small magellon cloud

HV 2112
- in small magellon cloud

---------

As for the station ae signal, there is a decoder script for it, trying to find it - seems to elude me at this time.

It breaks the symbols down into alpha numeric A-Z, 1-0.

I have the hex dump of one stations audio tx that I've looked at and it could be a cypher but until some kind of comsistancy can be found decrypting this one will take more time.


Found it..

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.

discord.com

Long ago cmdrs noticed the signals inside the stations near the back on the axis. I remember reading this and everyone thought that this was in reference to the numbers written on the outside of the stations. Reading it now it is pretty clear this is in reference to the code in the antenna since numbers painted on the outside of the station are not "transmitted". It is unlikely that the characters are the only encoded message.

Interesting comment by DB about Stations

In the PS4 launch media circus : “I think the last game I completed was perhaps Everybody’s Gone to the Rapture. It’s quite a strange, very relaxed game, but by the end I was desperate to know what was going on. I’d gotten a bit hung up on the strange number sequences you get during the...

forums.frontier.co.uk

To record (need to provide better details):
1. Dock at station and remain on the surface
2. Turn off all in game music
3. Go into free cam and move toward the back of the station at the center
4. Open Audacity and record using a loopback
5. set the track to Spectrogram

I saw a youtube vid recently, they said they were unable to find any Imperial station broadcasting those sounds. Interesting if accurate. They said not every station broadcasts it, but they suggested it wasn't related to type or interior type. Not sure how accurate that is.

I'm unsure if they mean anything (or even if they're numbers and letters) but it's very interesting and clearly someone during development decided to create this system rather than just have literally any other type of "sci-fi code bleeps" on loop. If nothing else it's yet another highlighting of the depth and complexity of audio use in the game.

I do think Raxxla is an audio signal (to us) that's broadcast across the galaxy (in one form or another), so this may well be related in some way.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

OT Serpentis was a bust for me. Searched the belt clusters, little activity with miners/pirates nothing major. System has lots of degraded emissions threat 0 only.

Sending Silent Sphere Song to Dahan...

Yes, I've spent a week or so investigating both systems...but OT Serpentis ABC1 A ring has 33,863km - 46,455km radii, so mean is 40,159km, so mean circumference is 252,326km. At a speed of 400m/sec in normal space it would require 630,815 seconds (i.e. 175.22 hours) to fly round. Honking occurs every 16 seconds, during which time at that speed you've travelled 6.4 Km. I don't believe the range of the scanner is "infinite" for Raxxla, I think it will be very close; how close do we think we have to be to detect it? And then you have to shift over your track by the width of that detection distance and travel around the ring again....& repeat as required to cover the whole belt. And what if Raxxla has an RNG function built into it's detectability? Maybe it needs N honks to show up, where N could be totally arbitrary.

Basically I think I've found the system it's in (either OT Serpentis or Dahan), but I think actually finding it will be pure fluke...UNLESS we can get more information from the garden designs and/or logo!

 

[Rochester]

OT Serpentis or Dahan are very good candidates, falling as they do along the outer rim of chaos, very close to the ‘Morrigans’ and Sheela na gig, potential identifiers for the Empyrean, they are in the correct fulcrum - if we trust the Miltonian concept.

The codex logo still might identify some unknown elements. I still suspect the ‘dotted’ hexagon identifies “something” hidden, within something else?

The six points I can speculate relate somehow to six somethings around a certain body with a ring - if we accept the garden design.

Does it need 6 Cmdrs with 6 trinkets?

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10345356

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10343060

 

[Ataxia]

I saw a youtube vid recently, they said they were unable to find any Imperial station broadcasting those sounds. Interesting if accurate. They said not every station broadcasts it, but they suggested it wasn't related to type or interior type. Not sure how accurate that is.

I'm unsure if they mean anything (or even if they're numbers and letters) but it's very interesting and clearly someone during development decided to create this system rather than just have literally any other type of "sci-fi code bleeps" on loop. If nothing else it's yet another highlighting of the depth and complexity of audio use in the game.

I do think Raxxla is an audio signal (to us) that's broadcast across the galaxy (in one form or another), so this may well be related in some way.

I found 10x 4 character long sequences that appear twice each in the file.

• YBYC: 361 characters
• 39LG: 179 characters
• C7L7: 3680 characters
• 8NVT: 1871 characters
• G1WL: 3883 characters
• Y7CG: 1381 characters
• 40ZR: 1129 characters
• R95B: 1806 characters
• AHF2: 84 characters
• 9P13: 601 characters

Each pair is seperated by the number of characters listed.

This is from a 'translated' 6 hr audio file from one of the stations.

their combined hex is - 16 9b 3e 60 74 ff 2b 56 54 69 70 e5 42 59

 

[Ataxia]

Does it need 6 Cmdrs with 6 trinkets?

I'll have to search, but wasn't there a comment from Braben about just needing a regular sensor but more people would be better?

 

[Hanerib]

You don't need any of those scanners, FSS, DSS, etc. for exploration, just carry a Thargoid probe

The Thargoid Probe | Canonn Research Group

The Thargoid Probe: Introduction Only recently discovered, these mysterious artefacts are believed to be probes, but of unknown origin. Their physical appearance makes them likely to be related to the unknown artefacts discovered in 3301. Such mystery only serves to make these objects more...

canonn.science