The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Louis Calvert]

@selbie @Louis Calvert

I'm doing some investigations with several aspects.

Here are the truths.

Raxxla Codex
Tourism Gardens (Milton)
Numbers stations (gathering data, need more data)
Brooks tour - "And fast by, hanging in a golden chain,
This pendant world, in bigness as a star
Of smallest magnitude, close by the moon."

I've included the raxxla icon for ease of comparison with the rear of the coriolis, the fact that the image 'fits' at about the distance you need to be to hear (see) the numbers is coincedental at this point. The design, I am waiting to see if there is a difference in tourism station 'rears', so far after 3 checks they are similar.

I do think it would be faster and more useful to check other stations for the signal first. It doesn't seem to be universal, and there's @Ian Doncaster 's point about the synchronising between players, which seems to me to be a quick and easy test and would go a long way to show whether Fdev considered the signal important enough to sync.

Then there's also the same question I ask a lot these days: Why?! Why is this a clue to Raxxla in the lore? It's a potential mystery, sure, but that doesn't mean it's anything to do with Raxxla.

What lore would need to exist to mean that signals broadcast from some station interior antenna at extremely close range contains impossible-to-break cyphers of (potentially) infinite non-repeating patterns of shapes that some people consider resembles scrawled letters and number? Would we assume that someone did this in order to... what? Leave clues to Raxxla? Why? How does any of this fit with the lore?

Genuinely interested in how this develops, but for me personally I need that lore connection to get invested.

 

[Ataxia]

I do think it would be faster and more useful to check other stations for the signal first. It doesn't seem to be universal, and there's @Ian Doncaster 's point about the synchronising between players, which seems to me to be a quick and easy test and would go a long way to show whether Fdev considered the signal important enough to sync.

Then there's also the same question I ask a lot these days: Why?! Why is this a clue to Raxxla in the lore? It's a potential mystery, sure, but that doesn't mean it's anything to do with Raxxla.

What lore would need to exist to mean that signals broadcast from some station interior antenna at extremely close range contains impossible-to-break cyphers of (potentially) infinite non-repeating patterns of shapes that some people consider resembles scrawled letters and number? Would we assume that someone did this in order to... what? Leave clues to Raxxla? Why? How does any of this fit with the lore?

Genuinely interested in how this develops, but for me personally I need that lore connection to get invested.

Here is one of the 'translation'

The 'numbers' are in plain text, just a pain to read lower frequencies. I don't think they are meaningless but the meaning may be a bit harder to understand. So far any data I've gotten is circumstantual, I'm waiting on a second 6 hr data translation to do a comparison on for similarities or repeating data.

 

[Pyroboros]

I don't suppose that using procedural generation from a table of the alphabet and 0-9 numbers you could, say, create a string of nearly random numbers for your sci-fi game stations to broadcast?

Linear-feedback shift register

 

[CMDR Davanix]

Thinking about this, @Ataxia and @selbie

We know that Elite 1984 was only possible due to procedural generation. Source is this excellent video on making the original game. We know Elite Dangerous does the same on a grander scale.

I don't suppose that using procedural generation from a table of the alphabet and 0-9 numbers you could, say, create a string of nearly random numbers for your sci-fi game stations to broadcast?

Just looking for ways this couldn't be any sort of code and could easily be explained - still don't really see why anyone would do that when a simple 1minuite loop of sci-fi code bleeps would be entirely appropriate for the job?!

Alternatively, that second vid I linked has Braben talking about how procgen works for Elite, and mentions several things which relate to using the numbers to find a location.

"So what Elite did, it ran these (numbers) ... for the whole galaxy ... and what you can do is just look in the sequence to see which ones are near you, and then plot them on a map..."
View attachment 396402

While he's talking about this there's a series of numbers along the bottom of the screen. I'm not saying it's any sort of clue, I just think... If I were making a clue to something that revolved around embedding long procgen number string hidden in the game and they led somewhere, I'd also then do a video where I explained how it all worked, nothing like hiding a secret in plain sight.

Could the date 2296 also be a direct clue number within this string

 

[Neestar]

nothing like hiding a secret in plain sight.

Bingo ^ yep THAT very notion is what i'm personally relying upon.

Anything more complex or deep , i leave up to some of the very dedicated/brilliant minds posting within this massive thread.

 

[selbie]

I agree, I've not seen this tested on the forum thread(s) yet strangely, but the youtube vid I watched where someone talked about this said that they believe the sound is instanced for the individual "client side" (4:20 in the linked vid), but they were not specific about any other details and didn't sound like they'd tested it.

I've seen no actual tests for this yet.

He also says the signal doesn't appear in all stations, actually none he checked in the Empire "at all", and some elsewhere. He's not specific about how many he checked.

The client-side aspect may be a result of the game relying on Peer to Peer synchronisation. It may also indicate that it is based on your pilot status - thus, lore-related.
The video comment raises a good point:

What might be a reason that Imperial stations don't send to YOU in particular?
What's your standing with the Imperials...or their enemies?

It's a shame the creator didn't respond with his Fed and Empire ranks because it would have clarified that pretty quickly.
Regardless it would be fairly straightforward to test:
Does the signal appear in Empire stations with low rank? Does it appear with high Empire rank? Same deal for Fed stations.
Similarly for the local faction reputation. For example, one station controlled by Faction A with ally status could have the signal, but Faction B with enemy status within the same system doesn't.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

I can't remember. I think initially disconnected, though it didn't take very long for Alliance supporters to use expansions to join them up if so.

That doesn't matter. The clue comes from Elite Legacy which was released in 2014, so it was written before any players could start to manipulate the galactic balance of power!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

That doesn't matter. The clue comes from Elite Legacy which was released in 2014, so it was written before any players could start to manipulate the galactic balance of power!

Yes - the point is that it's very difficult (without doing fairly deep per-system checks) to determine what exactly was Alliance space (or nearby) in 2014 because the player-driven expansion was so fast afterwards.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

OT Serpentis or Dahan are very good candidates, falling as they do along the outer rim of chaos, very close to the ‘Morrigans’ and Sheela na gig, potential identifiers for the Empyrean, they are in the correct fulcrum - if we trust the Miltonian concept.

The codex logo still might identify some unknown elements. I still suspect the ‘dotted’ hexagon identifies “something” hidden, within something else?

The six points I can speculate relate somehow to six somethings around a certain body with a ring - if we accept the garden design.

Does it need 6 Cmdrs with 6 trinkets?

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10345356

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10343060

To my mind it must mean either:
1) 6 ringed bodies
2) 6 mineral hotspots - this is my favoured hypothesis, especially since planetary ring hotspots came out at the same time as the codex. And also wrt to: Beyond - Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal livestream 18Oct2018 : @1:29:58 Adam Bourke-Waite (Senior Designer) said “that thing we haven’t shown” (i.e. Raxxla codex entry) “there’s elements of that that are probably my favourite parts of this”
3) 6 moons of a ringed body.

But the garden design does seem to indicate in both middle and right panels 6 something's within a ring, hence preference for hypothesis #2.

@Ian Doncaster : we have had, several times over the years in this thread, the hypothesis postulated that "RAXXLA" might be Right Ascension 20 ... from Sol's viewpoint, HOWEVER what if the name is a clue to the positioning within its system? The seed for the planetary belt definition? It's location within the belt? I don't think Right Ascension can be directly applied in an alien system- no Vernal Equinox/Point of Aries to measure from??

Edit
I'm also strongly suspicious that Trinkets of Hidden Fortune are relevant to the solution. We might have to carry them in our ship's hold to activate Raxxla, but what if the TOHF name is somehow relevant to it's location? Or the TOHF description? That would indeed be obfuscation!

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Mmm, started out saying trinkets (not capitalised, so generic trinkets) then spoke of them as relics...
So alien relics rather than ToHF?
Might be a clue, might not.

Isinor has one of shielded surface ports - Charmas Terminal. Perhaps that may be relevant?

Trinkets of Hidden Fortune

This container appears to hold an assorted collection of low-value trinkets, knick-knacks and statuettes. Such trinkets are generally used by superstitious pilots to try and win favour with Lady Fortuna. However, these particular knick-knacks have a much more valuable prize hidden within.

Charnas Terminal in Isinor - station | Elite:Dangerous | INARA

The companion site for Elite:Dangerous with the game database, market data, trade routes, outfitting, engineers, blueprints, crafting, Thargoid war, squadrons, logbooks, galleries, galaxy information and much more...

inara.cz

 

[Neestar]

There are far more exotic investigations on the Canon thread,

Sorry for the newb question but... What/where exactly is this "Canon" thread?

 

[Rochester]

Typo - it’s difficult to type whilst flying.

Canonn Research Group | Canonn Research Group

Also known as The Canonn - Canonn Research Group are the premier player group in Elite Dangerous for everyone interested in the mysteries of the galaxy.

canonn.science

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The seed for the planetary belt definition? It's location within the belt?

The seed you wouldn't be able to pick up easily because that's likely buried deep in a sub-branch of the Stellar Forge code. Maybe the body ID, but even if that's true it implies that there was a pre-Journal means to find the right ring system another way so it could be corroborating evidence at best.


Location within a planetary ring has the major problem that planetary rings rotate and are attached to something which follows an even more complex course, so establishing a consistent landmark is going to be really tricky - background stars, other moons or planetary bodies, etc. would all only be usable if the target was powered and following an extremely rapid counter-rotational course (which should involve sufficient energy usage to be detectable!)

In terms of things which rotate with the ring they all have a challenge being used as landmarks:
- hotspots have been re-rolled in terms of both position and content at least once since 3.3
- RES sites have been re-done at least twice since 1.0 (and would only apply to an inhabited system)
- NSPs are inconsistent about whether they show up at all (and I don't think there are any in the bubble, if that's your search area)
- visible stations/installations in rings [1] are rare and I think Colonia 4 is the only case which has two ring-reference-frame objects
(though Raxxla's position could be defined internally in terms of them and therefore automatically reposition if RES#1 and Hotspot#4 move)

The direct line between two hotspot centres or two RES sites is a much more practical search area (though still multiple hours per pair in a typical ring system), or you could use a single one to establish a line with the planet centre (or a radius, though that would be a much harder search!)


[1] It does occur to me here that in terms of "contained in a ring" and "somewhere near the bubble" and "secret" the Dark Wheel Station is in many respects a more likely candidate than Raxxla itself, especially since we've been given a direct hint that it's associated with a gas giant with particular properties. Still, getting access to their list of places Raxxla isn't could still be extremely valuable.

I don't think Right Ascension can be directly applied in an alien system- no Vernal Equinox/Point of Aries to measure from??

No - you could arbitrarily pick a planet, define its North relative to rotational direction as usual, establish a vernal equinox by analogy, and get an RA baseline to go from there ... but that seems excessive.

That said, I think the "Right Ascension XXLA" theory is probably about as plausible as my "we already found it but didn't recognise it because it was so unimpressive Ra X (XL) a" theory.

 

[Ataxia]

@Jorki Rasalas

https://www.reddit.com/r/Raxxla/s/p8sAbI8Ick

Found a reddit post addressed to you;

Ref trinket and pirate scan.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Minor discovery that may be relevant: all movements of the Frameshift Suite are either constellations or asterisms from Claudius Ptolemy's Almagest. Ptolemy was a Roman citizen during the era when Rome controlled Egypt. It may therefore be important to pay particular attention to the constellations as recognized then and not the modern version (especially given the Empire is modelled in the likeness of the Roman empire). This same text is where we got most of the information on Greek astronomy. An English translation of Ptolemy's Almagest can be found here.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

The seed you wouldn't be able to pick up easily because that's likely buried deep in a sub-branch of the Stellar Forge code. Maybe the body ID, but even if that's true it implies that there was a pre-Journal means to find the right ring system another way so it could be corroborating evidence at best.


Location within a planetary ring has the major problem that planetary rings rotate and are attached to something which follows an even more complex course, so establishing a consistent landmark is going to be really tricky - background stars, other moons or planetary bodies, etc. would all only be usable if the target was powered and following an extremely rapid counter-rotational course (which should involve sufficient energy usage to be detectable!)

In terms of things which rotate with the ring they all have a challenge being used as landmarks:
- hotspots have been re-rolled in terms of both position and content at least once since 3.3
- RES sites have been re-done at least twice since 1.0 (and would only apply to an inhabited system)
- NSPs are inconsistent about whether they show up at all (and I don't think there are any in the bubble, if that's your search area)
- visible stations/installations in rings [1] are rare and I think Colonia 4 is the only case which has two ring-reference-frame objects
(though Raxxla's position could be defined internally in terms of them and therefore automatically reposition if RES#1 and Hotspot#4 move)

The direct line between two hotspot centres or two RES sites is a much more practical search area (though still multiple hours per pair in a typical ring system), or you could use a single one to establish a line with the planet centre (or a radius, though that would be a much harder search!)


[1] It does occur to me here that in terms of "contained in a ring" and "somewhere near the bubble" and "secret" the Dark Wheel Station is in many respects a more likely candidate than Raxxla itself, especially since we've been given a direct hint that it's associated with a gas giant with particular properties. Still, getting access to their list of places Raxxla isn't could still be extremely valuable.


No - you could arbitrarily pick a planet, define its North relative to rotational direction as usual, establish a vernal equinox by analogy, and get an RA baseline to go from there ... but that seems excessive.

That said, I think the "Right Ascension XXLA" theory is probably about as plausible as my "we already found it but didn't recognise it because it was so unimpressive Ra X (XL) a" theory.

Thanks! Didn't realise hotspots, RES etc had been "reset" at all- do you mean they've actually moved location?

I remember reading (fairly recently) a rather prickly response by MB along the lines of "I've never said Raxxla has been discovered", though of course I didn't note the reference at the time and since then can't find it. Of course it might have been discovered since he left ED, but I suspect FD will loudly announce it's discovery, if that ever happens!

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

@Jorki Rasalas

https://www.reddit.com/r/Raxxla/s/p8sAbI8Ick

Found a reddit post addressed to you;

Ref trinket and pirate scan.

Ah, many thanks for that. I wasn't aware FilthyMick had been banned, but I was just reading a couple of his old posts during this past week & thinking I hadn't seen him on the forum for a while.

Please give him my regards...for some reason I can't access that Reddit thread, I can briefly read it before a banner pops up and obscures the text and then whichever option I take seems to close it. Bah, Technology! Things were better when I were a lad and all we had was our fingers and toes to do our sums on! (Said in a Jorkshire accent, of course, as per Monty Python's paper bag sketch!).

Can you also tell him that is common behaviour. Many pirates will recognise that you have yourself pirated a cargo of Trinkets of Hidden Fortune and give up the intercept with that message, however others are incentivised to attack...there seems no rhyme or reason behind the difference. Also, that mission objective message popping up seems to occur if you're in a system for any length of time and I don't think it's meaningful, it might HOWEVER be a means of locating Raxxla given the context and is worth checking out though I suspect it's just normal random gameplay. IIRC mission objectives show as blue (maybe orange?) in the Full Spectrum Scanner.

Perhaps someone else has a comment to make on the "mission objective" message popping up?

Unless we can figure out a means of getting a better location within the planetary belt for Raxxla I suspect we're doomed to a dismal search (we're doomed Cmdr Mainwearing! Doomed! )

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Didn't realise hotspots, RES etc had been "reset" at all- do you mean they've actually moved location?

That's really hard to tell. They've certainly changed types, which would make "ah, in Paradise Lost Satan goes between a Low RES and a High RES" a bit less reliable, but I don't know if they've changed location. Possibly not (and it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if they had so long as your target's location was derived from theirs rather than the other way round)

 

[Louis Calvert]

Here is one of the 'translation'

The 'numbers' are in plain text, just a pain to read lower frequencies. I don't think they are meaningless but the meaning may be a bit harder to understand. So far any data I've gotten is circumstantual, I'm waiting on a second 6 hr data translation to do a comparison on for similarities or repeating data.

and @selbie

The issue is that any 'random' set of anything will eventually show apparently meaningful clumping. That's the nature of random.

That's why Spotify doesn't use a 'random' shuffle - because it did originally and people complained that sometimes they'd hear the same song five times in a row, because that's what random means.

If you flip a coin, it's 50/50 right? So you'd expect if you charted those flips you'd not really find any 'patterns' in that data. But, because it's random, what you actually see is that sometimes you'll flip Heads 10 times in a row followed by 10 tails in a row followed by 5 Heads and 5 Tails... if you flip coins long enough that sequence will happen. Flip enough coins for long enough and you'll be able to find Morse code for S.O.S. or binary encoding for Pi in those coin flips...

"...dice don't know what the dice did last time" - Donna Noble

Numbers and letters generated by a random algorithm don't have memories, they don't know if they're making meaningful sense, and from what I've seen people are essentially 'transcribing' long strings of 36 characters from the station signals, that means you end up with strings of thousands(?) of characters for each hours-long recording, right?

I would challenge that if you put A-Z 0-9 into a random number generator and got it to output a string of equivalent length to the 'transcribed' station code then showed both sets to someone in a blind test - they'd be able to find some meaningful clumping in both sets of numbers, and more so they'd struggle to point out which string was from the stations and which from the random number generator.


The fact that it's apparently random means that (as I read on the main thread about this) the 'message' (assuming there is one) is encoded in something more than 4,000 characters long, presumably the longest yet-transcribed sequence.

And, again, there's no lore connection here at all to Raxxla that anyone has explained so far. That's very important because so far we've got:

• A random sound emitted from some stations can be interpreted as containing numbers and letters by some people when viewed in the spectrogram.
• There appears to be no meaning to this, the numbers and letters appear totally random.
• There's no consistency in the recordings (no-one has found matching sequences in different recordings indicating it's the 'same message' being broadcast).
• There's nothing in the Codex (the only in-game source of any real info on Raxxla) to suggest that we should be looking for stations spitting out code.
• The Myth of Raxxla as it's commonly known doesn't include anything on stations spitting out code either.
• There's no lore explanation as to why code strings from some stations might be connected to Raxxla.

So... I love the enthusiasm here, but I would ask that you turn this enthusiasm to the actual, literal, 'unexplained' artificial signal coming from near Stuemeae JM-W C1-5825 that's genuinely strange and requires people to examine much more closely than has been done so far.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

That's really hard to tell. They've certainly changed types, which would make "ah, in Paradise Lost Satan goes between a Low RES and a High RES" a bit less reliable, but I don't know if they've changed location. Possibly not (and it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if they had so long as your target's location was derived from theirs rather than the other way round)

The trouble is...we seem to have absolutely no information on the target location
Unless the logo/right hand garden panel are telling us something I don't have eyes to see nor ears to hear!!