In Paradise Lost, Chaos is a realm but also a character, the 'womb of nature' (II.911), and holds the 'dark materials' (II.916) out of which the universe was created.

There are no systems I know of named after chaos, but which female creation or chaos deities exist close to the lost realms area?
 
From a quick scan of the Wikipedia article on chaos gods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_gods, have found the following chaos deities as system/planet names in-game.
No idea how close to the lost realms area they are or how relevant they might be.

Canaanite - Yam (Federation)
Egyptian - Apep (anarchy), Nu (Empire), Set (anarchy)
Celtic - Formorians (Anarchy)
Norse-Germanic: Nidhogg (world in the Nastrond system)
Graeco-Roman: Typhon (anarchy)
Persian Zorostarian: Angra Mainyu (anarchy)

Also, following on from Han_Zen's post, regarding names - maybe they aren't always that obvious. One of my alts is in a system called Edenapel...Eden Apple...Apple of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden... :)
 
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When you say that El Dorado is not in the game, I would say that it could be.
The Knowledge Base entry for Alliance > History has something to say about El Dorado.

Alioth was colonised.​

The crucible in which the Alliance was forged was Alioth, a system so rich in gas and mineral resources that early surveyors considered it as a stellar El Dorado. When the Federation established its colony on Alioth 5b in 2452, they gave the planet the less grandiose name of Fruitcake, as mineral deposits lay in the loamy soil as abundantly as raisins in cake. Later commentators would reflect, bitterly, that the world was well named because 'everyone wanted a piece'.
 
TB#117: Battlegroup disappearance

In 2924, a further conflict started up in the Alioth system, initiated by a squabble over its hydrocarbon resources. The Durn and Resnar Corporation applied for Imperial assistance to enforce its claim over a large swathe of the system's mining rights. A small force of Imperial cruisers and their support ships arrived in the system and rapidly deployed to enforce these claims. They vastly outnumbered the mustered Federal units, and forced them out of the entire system within a year. But then, withouth warning in 2925, the Imperial battle group disappeared. Federal vessels returned and Hassoni-Kruger appropriated the system's mining rights. Within month all assets of the Durn and Resner Corporation were seized by the Emperor. The reason for the strange events has never been discovered. Federal intelligence sources were later to accuse the Duvals of instigating a cloning programme to breed specialised infantry units.

Okay, may not be relevant. This sounds like "The Emperor's Own" in Laedla. That, however, does confirm the Imperial Clone supersoldiers were actually a thing.
 
Pure speculation here: I am increasingly leaning towards "The Emperor's Own" being The Pilots' Federation founded in 2805. Facece has come up far too often as has Jaques and Peter Jameson. Besides, we have Peter's Wreck and Peter's Base in Facece. In that case, the Elite force protecting Raxxla is the Elite Pilots' Federation (of which TDW is a clique of that organization).

There's also the comment made by Raffe Zetter (possibly another alias of Jaques/Jameson):

Rafe nodded. ‘That’s right, Alex,’ he said softly. ‘You can be deadly, you can be dangerous, and you can end up as pet food in orbit around a dog’s ass-of-a-world like Isveve. But if you’re Elite, and you die, then there’s a reason for your death…’

You betray the EPF/TDW: you end up dead ☠️.
 
If that is the case, we have full control of Raxxla. See snake symbolism cropping up with TDW and any ships linked to police forces and Galactic Navy (Federation). The ships are the following manufacturers:

Lakon Spaceways
Faulcon Manspace/Faulcon Delacy
Zorgon Peterson 🤔

I think TDW very much has had full control of Raxxla since 2805. This being the core reason for their secrecy. Just a guess: the point of the "personal journey" rediscover who you are and how very powerful that makes you. We need to stop looking externally. We clearly have the answers. We got the invite which means we're all at minimum grandchildren of Peter Jameson who leads The Dark Wheel.
 

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I very much agree that the EFP (Elite Federation of Pilots is how it's called, according to a ShinDez tourist spot) controls Raxxla, specifically through the real TDW.

The main difficulty here is, we lack any clue whatsoever whether we even began the necessary journey to reach it.
 
Thinking more on ‘female chaos deities’ as a potential Miltonian metaphor for the entity in Paradise Lost ‘Chaos’ the womb of creation.

Tiamat - Mesopotamian goddess of salt water / sea; mother of gods and of chaos - (MB wrote a Drabble about her). Has brother and lover is named Apsu (also known as Abzu) - Tiamat is in game.

Kali - Hindu goddess of chaos and destruction in game.

Lilith, Lilit, Lilitu, or Lilis - Hebrew, possibly linked to destruction and chaos? In game.

Nyx - one of the earliest Greek gods to exist, as the offspring of Chaos alongside Erebus( Darkness), in game.

There are a few others as ‘bodies’ but I’m of the perspective that’s too wide.
 
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Nyx was a chaos goddess. There is a system in-game by that name. Her mother was Khaos.

 
Pondering the section within M Brookes book ‘Legacy’ which FD replicated in the memorial beacons, and which I suspect hold some similarity with Trinkets of Hidden Fortune…

For centuries there was a spacer tradition that if a body couldn’t be recovered, then an empty coffin would be filled with small tokens by those attending. The coffin soon filled with patches, glasses and a whole range of small items which provided some connection between the mourner and Hammer’

‘At the suggestion of the engineering chief, a cargo pod was transformed into an oversized coffin. The mementoes all fitted inside and a memorial plaque laser-etched into the surface. Lina wept openly as the pod launched into space’ - Michael Brookes Elite Legacy.

Now the pod was jettisoned in Artemis, but with the proliferation in game of Celtic references, and this being a very unique burial theme, I wonder if this tradition had a particular origin?

It also feels to that such references do pull particular focus upon Legacy. With this in mind, it too falls into likelihood, it may be the same book as the ‘children’s story’ alluded to in the Codex, simply due to the existence of various descriptions:

‘As a girl she’d even dreamed of being the first pilot to discover Raxxla. Her father disapproved of such tales when she’d been a child. Even so, the desire to head into deep space called to her

Her father had told her tales of the old gods of Earth, and in the gloom of her cell they seemed larger than life. Here, sat at a table in the middle of the room with his back to her, was a giant of a man. He looked like one of the old gods from the northern mountains, enjoying a break far from Earth’

I had no form of entertainment except for a book, a single book about a young man’s quest to save a princess from an alien dragon. My father must have bought it on the black market. He couldn’t have got it from anywhere else - I still have that book

The Beaumont system was a frontier world far below Achenar‘ - Michael Brookes Elite Legacy.

(*new find for ‘mountains - map’ Beaumont is French for beautiful mountain!)

In the absence of any other book without so many oddities and links to extrapolate from, what references could be pulled from Legacy?

I’ve re-read Legacy, and it does seem evident there’s a link involvement related to Artemis, Hecate and Demeter. An obvious ‘leap’ from there ought to be Persephone… but where from there?

There are a number of systems in the Lost Reslms with links to Persephone, especially a few with bodies, factions and a persistent NPC?

Something is missing here, there’s nothing necessarily in Persephone that’s glaringly obvious, so what else could there be the ‘Legacy’ what else could it hold - or does this collectively just take us the area of the ‘lost realms’.

Currently not in game, but when next available I may just try and grind my way through every system in that area… but I’m sure there’s something more we’re missing which ought to refine our search.
 
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Pondering the section within M Brookes book ‘Legacy’ which FD replicated in the memorial beacons, and which I suspect hold some similarity with Trinkets…

At the suggestion of the engineering chief, a cargo pod was transformed into an oversized coffin. The mementoes all fitted inside and a memorial plaque laser-etched into the surface. Lina wept openly as the pod launched into space’ Michael Brookes Elite Legacy.

Now the pod was jettisoned in Artemis, but with the proliferation in game of Celtic references, and this being a very unique burial theme, I wonder if this tradition had a particular origin?

I feels to me, the ‘children’s story’ alluded to in the Codex is likely to be Brookes Legacy, simply due to the existence of the description:

‘As a girl she’d even dreamed of being the first pilot to discover Raxxla. Her father disapproved of such tales when she’d been a child. Even so, the desire to head into deep space called to her’ Michael Brookes Elite Legacy.

In the absence of any other book to extrapolate from, what references could be pulled from Legacy?

I’ve re-read Legacy, and it does seem evident there’s a link involvement Artemis, Hecate and Demeter. An obvious ‘leap’ from there ought to be Persephone… but where from there?

Something is missing here, there’s nothing in Persephone that’s glaringly obvious?
Im just re-reading legacy (bought a new hardback as my old paper one is a tad worn!), hoping to find something i missed to.

O7
 
Raxxla logo disassembled...
RaxxlaLogo_optimized.jpg


Asteroid fields of Sol:
Greeks_Trojans_Hildas.png

  • Innermost layer is astronomical symbol for sun: ☉
  • The ring of the solar symbol additionally serves as the dividing line between terresterial planets and the gas giants.
  • The 3 arcs serves as representation for another oddity of Sol: the Greeks, Trojan, and Hildas asteroid fields that exist in addition to main asteroid belt.
  • Additionally, the arcs + inner ᳃ represents how many ringed gas giants are in Sol - a total of 4: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
  • Dashed line is the dividing line between gas giants and Kuiper Belt Objects (KBOs) - in-game reprsented by: Pluto/Charon, 90482 Orcus/Vanth, (307261) 2002 MS4, Salacia/Actaea, and Haumea/Hi'iaka.
  • The final 6 dark sections are representative of 6 largest scattered disk objects (SDOs): Quaoar, Makemake, (225088) 2007 OR10 or Gonggong, Eris, Sedna, and Persephone.

Additionally, it should be noted the Raxxla logo appears to look like how TDW's station is described: a spinning orbis station with lots of solar panel (the 6 dark zones of the logo). The Sol system is currently the record holder for number of 🌴 stations at four. Further, the Pilot's Federation symbol which is emblazened everywhere in stations, outposts, ports, and settlements is literally the symbol of Earth itself: 🜨

Better version of Earth astronomical symbol and Pilot's Federation symbol (in-game it is an orange circle split 4 ways):
Earth and Pilot's Federation Symbol.png


 
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I wonder if this tradition had a particular origin?


Good point - alot of cultures have grave goods associated with burial… The inclusion of figurines and “trinkets” reminds me of mingqi from China.

They were recreating the world (or was it galaxy) - from the trinkets and figurines symbolizing things and people to the shapes of the tombs indicating the cardinal directions and the dome of the sky. - all under a nice mound…


You could make the same argument with egyptian burials… among others
 
The burial sequence in Elite: Legacy is very reminiscent of the description of Trinkets of Hidden Fortune and I do wonder if it was pointing us towards them and the now-abandoned TDW missions. If so, then I fear it is a redundant clue but worth bearing in mind, in case the Trinkets have been repurposed with a different role - after all, when TDW mission were removed, it would have been a good time to remove the Trinkets - but they did not.

Even with Michael Brookes' own novel, I still think we have to be a bit careful as it was written before some things were implemented. For example, it mentions multicrew but the description seems to give more advantage to it than a real situation in 3309 would. Also, there is no Panther Clipper in game, or a module that prevents ships from jumping to either hyperspace or supercruise over a wide region...
 
Even with Michael Brookes' own novel, I still think we have to be a bit careful
Yes I totally agree. There are a large number of discrepancies in the book that don’t align with the game.

Eg: ‘Bring up the Beaumont insurrection from 3294. A map of a star system appeared from the holo-projector. The Beaumont system was a frontier world far below Achenar’ - Michael Brookes Elite Legacy

An initial search shows no system named Beaumont in game, interestingly it’s French for beautiful mountain - coincidence?

Generally my hypothesis is based upon only the presumption Brookes established the location of Raxxla at the same point of writing the book. It’s possible it’s actually a red-herring because certain points in the codex sound like they cast doubt on these rumours.

The existence of the ‘Lost Realms’ and the ‘Mountains’ areas is as I propose, evidence of a significant level of detail being built pre-launch; personally as someone with RL experience in GIS mapping - this is not difficult to do, complex certainly, especially if you’re building a game, doubly so if your not GIS trained, but it’s not impossible (and yes I accept my own GIS experience may be forming bias).

If the author had such intent its therefore not outside the realm of plausibility that they would want to mischievously spin a few hints into their other works… I’d be tempted too…

I once worked in the phrase ‘obfuscated on the outer rim’ into an official document, just for a jape myself ;).

Such a ‘jape’ in Legacy, initially may originally not have been intended to be made public… I suspect it was a clandestine move, and only referenced (if true that is - this is just conjecture) only once the Codex was written…and incorporated as a method to embellish the myth or repurpose assets?

Of course it could be another book entirely…
 
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The burial sequence in Elite: Legacy is very reminiscent of the description of Trinkets of Hidden Fortune and I do wonder if it was pointing us towards them and the now-abandoned TDW missions. If so, then I fear it is a redundant clue but worth bearing in mind, in case the Trinkets have been repurposed with a different role - after all, when TDW mission were removed, it would have been a good time to remove the Trinkets - but they did not.
This sounds approximately like ancestor worship found any many cultures. So, allow me to propose something:

Our ships look like they have a Guardian-inpired interface. Additionally, crystals are a common component of Guardian materials and the same is true of multiple engineering-related human ship-board components. Further, Trinkets of Hidden Fortune are described as follows:

Trinkets of Hidden Fortune

This container appears to hold an assorted collection of low-value trinkets, knick-knacks and statuettes. Such trinkets are generally used by superstitious pilots to try and win favour with Lady Fortuna. However, these particular knick-knacks have a much more valuable prize hidden within.

I think we need to take these to human crash sites (orbital and planet-side) and the Ancient Sites and Guardian sites and see if they react to occupied escape pods and Guardian Caskets.

Mark my words: this goes back to pretty much every independent permit system there is with a special emphasis on the following systems: Isinor, Van Maanan's Star, Sol, and very possibly Peregrina.

Isinor (very close to Ryder home system):
This pastoral system supports an agricultural economy but doesn't welcome strangers. So much so that the governing council won't permit a starport in orbit for trading. The permit for this system can be obtained via the Chapter of Isinor faction.

Van Maanan's Star:
This system was given to the Guardians of the Free Spirit religious sect by the Federation in 2480. They believe in maximum hardship and live underground on several of the inner planets of the system. It is forbidden by Federal Law to enter the system without the permission of the Guardians. The permit for this system can be obtained via the Sublime Order of van Maanen's Star faction.

The next part connects to the planet Undine in Peregrina (an Earth-like). This is the Guardian home system. I cannot explain what they are easily, so just read the link about the Undines. They are complex beings. This I believe explains a good deal of what we see in CMDRs and what we are told about our alien friends.

We are Guardians or at the very least some sort of hybrid (if you still haven't read the Undine link do so now - nothing will make sense without it). We aren't humans - at least not traditional ones. Almost all of Humanity was wiped out during WW3 or the incurable plague that followed (though the population has likely blossomed over the past 1,000 years - covered by Frontier gazetteer). This is why we can shapeshift our appearance in anyway we wish including apparent age, skin tone, sex, hair, etc). We merely look human. This is why only CMDRs can pilot ships. As you well know, normal humans have fared poorly when interfacing with Oresrian technology.

Somehow Trinkets of Hidden Fortune activates something of very considerable importance. Raxxla, perhaps?

P.S. Note: Maybe we really did make ☮️ with the Traditional branch. If so, this is promising and may means we can ultimately fix the relationship with both. For the record, it isn't necromancy if the "dead" are not, in fact, dead. It is learning from the wisdom of the elders.


 
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Mother goddess of mountains?

In Greece, Cybele became associated with mountains, town and city walls, fertile nature, and wild animals, especially lions. In Rome, Cybele became known as Magna Mater ("Great Mother").
 
There are systems in-game along those lines:
Cybele
Magna Mater
Terra Mater
Dea Motrona
Matres
Tellus (Roman equivalent)
All of these girls are in the same relative Y coordinates. Except for Terra Mater.

IMG_7472.jpeg

These girls are also in good company, as in this area is also home to a plethora of gods and goddesses:
  • Danu - Irish The peoples of the goddess Danu.
  • Hadad - Canaanite storm god
  • Asherah - Hebrew fertility goddess
  • Gen - Egyptian god of earth
Personally I think these ladies don’t really associate with anything, however they are more likely part of a greater conglomeration of ‘older gods’, compromising of ‘celestial’ upper deities, and ‘demonic’ lower deities.

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10194675

Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10198372
 
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