The Quest To Find Raxxla
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Interesting indeed, thanks for supplying all the images.Remember how I said tourism stations were important...
I figured this should be shared. Feel free to copy images and discuss. It is possible interpretations may need fine tuning. Anyway, the more eyes the better.
Maps in Tourist stations – Google Drive
drive.google.com
Here's my initial thoughts: I feel like this venn diagram sums up what we're seeing:
The images you provided are interesting, and I'd like to know more, but right now I'm struggling to understand how to tell what's of signficance in the Raxxla hunt, and what's just a shape that people like to use in things. Could you elaborate on which bits you see as being important?
Because yes, I fully agree the interiors could show things like the milky way, where Colonia and the bubble are, Magellanic clouds, etc. that would actually be cool for 'Tourist stations' to have baked into the decoration.
Could you supply a little more info on your interpretations to help make sense of these:
- I'm struggling to see the "Guardian towers" as opposed to just a tower or monument.
- I'm also unsure how to correctly see the "map of guardian region" with capital and nebulas? Could you maybe show some comparison maps to help out?
- I'm not quite seeing "three civilisations linked" as opposed to "an entry hall to a main building, paths to a greenspace plaza and a monument plaza, and another side building or hall."
- I'm not really seeing "omphalos rift with starship beam" I'm seeing "a path through greenspace to a monument showing male and female human representations around a monument"
The "uncertain symbolism" one we looked at earlier in the thread, the largest circle is a very clear reference to Milton's "pendent world" universe interpretations, but the adjoining circles are unknown.
The ten lights circle could be symbolic of the ten homocentric spheres of the Babylonian universe
publicdomainreview.org
The ten lights circle could be symbolic of the ten homocentric spheres of the Babylonian universe
The Universe as Pictured in Milton’s Paradise Lost (1915)
In his final work, William Fairfield Warren set out to become a cartographer of the poetic imagination, mapping Milton’s cosmos in *Paradise Lost*.
publicdomainreview.org
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@Louis Calvert I have to get a few more screenshots that showcase some details but I should have a proper response on Sunday to your post.
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'The "uncertain symbolism" one we looked at earlier in the thread, the largest circle is a very clear reference to Milton's "pendent world" universe interpretations, but the adjoining circles are unknown.
The ten lights circle could be symbolic of the ten homocentric spheres of the Babylonian universe
The Universe as Pictured in Milton’s Paradise Lost (1915)
In his final work, William Fairfield Warren set out to become a cartographer of the poetic imagination, mapping Milton’s cosmos in *Paradise Lost*.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10284915
I have an update for you
Each sphere could be a 'zoomed-in' inner layer of Milton's description - The Cosmos, The Universe, and Earth.
Some of these connections / relationships are certainly based on me trying to "fit" his model with this design as well as seeing parallels with the ancient hebrew / old testament ideas, so it's more of an experiment.
System Info
System: HIP 18390
Station: California Freeport
Notable Factions: Sirius Atmospherics, Sirius Mining - contains all FSD injection materials
Astronomical identifiers: HD 24583, TYC 2365-2062-1, USNO-A2 1200-01839264, located in the Perseus constellation.
Idea 1 - Path runs from Heaven [Sphere 1] to enter the sphere of the cosmos [2], through the Jasper Sea, onto Earth [3], and down to the gates of Hell / Underworld.
Idea 2 - Satan's Journey (right to left) from Hell (the door is runic Haglaz / Hail / Hagl (sounds like Hell and the door "loops" from the hell side of Milton's cosmos to leave Hell), through the Chasm / Void of Chaos to Earth, the Pavilion of chaos (small circle?), 'over' the Universe, to The Empyrean / Heaven.
The question is, does it relate to anything in the game if the designers chose to represent this idea?
1. The pragmatic answer - it is a fictional celebration of Humanity's creation mythology turned into a garden landscape for tourists to enjoy. OR
2. It is a direct reference to Milton's pendent world - reinforced by MB's final tourist beacon reference. It is a clue for Raxxla. Which begs the question:
How are the other garden rooms related, if at all? Can they be tied by a common theme?
It’s open to interpretation but personally I believe it represents a real Miltonian Cosmological model and it’s represented in game!
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10281101
The pivotal aspect of this design I believe is the utilisation of a North/South alignment, normal galactic north doesn’t seem to apply certain identified systems but when we apply the Greek wind compass (in game), our axis of perception shifts, and it begins to correlate.
Firstly close to the northern point are various systems named after deities that represent northern aspects or ‘upper gods’, such as Boreas. Likewise at the southern point you’ll start to see a plethora of systems all named after deities of the underworld.
In between these two upper and lower areas, as within John Milton’s model, is the zone of Chaos; this actually forms a bubble around Sol, I identified this via a quote from Paradise Lost, signifying the lowest aspect of Chaos, and that it’s circumstance is outlined by systems named after ’Storm/Thunder’ gods.
In the image below I’ve shifted the axis so it aligns, and illustrated each zone boundaries.
I’ve identified in the image above that that Norse Norns, Greek Fates and the Morrigans may represent an area between the Empyrean and Chaos. This just so happens to be the location of the Shamash system.
If we are to accept the Miltonian graphic within gardens is accurate, it’s possible then that Milton’s Paradise aka our Raxxla, ought to follow suit and be located in this general area.
But there is a noticeable degree of interpretation, although the Pendant world hung from the brow of the Empyrean, it was also identified to be within its western aspect, close to where Satan first fell.
Again if we trust the Greek wind compass in game as accurate (albeit abstract due to obfuscation), we can use it to also identify West, this might allude towards the area populated by the systems Demeter and of Fall, note that area may also encompass some elements of the Morrigan‘s systems!
This hypothesis is made unusual due to the existence of the Lost Realms, being in the totally opposite direction, we have to consider what is missing that might marry these theories together.
It’s important to note that Paradise Lost is full of accurate albeit metaphorical spacial imagery and dimensions; but how much did Brookes interpret correctly or choose to include or omit?
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10281101
The pivotal aspect of this design I believe is the utilisation of a North/South alignment, normal galactic north doesn’t seem to apply certain identified systems but when we apply the Greek wind compass (in game), our axis of perception shifts, and it begins to correlate.
Firstly close to the northern point are various systems named after deities that represent northern aspects or ‘upper gods’, such as Boreas. Likewise at the southern point you’ll start to see a plethora of systems all named after deities of the underworld.
In between these two upper and lower areas, as within John Milton’s model, is the zone of Chaos; this actually forms a bubble around Sol, I identified this via a quote from Paradise Lost, signifying the lowest aspect of Chaos, and that it’s circumstance is outlined by systems named after ’Storm/Thunder’ gods.
In the image below I’ve shifted the axis so it aligns, and illustrated each zone boundaries.
I’ve identified in the image above that that Norse Norns, Greek Fates and the Morrigans may represent an area between the Empyrean and Chaos. This just so happens to be the location of the Shamash system.
If we are to accept the Miltonian graphic within gardens is accurate, it’s possible then that Milton’s Paradise aka our Raxxla, ought to follow suit and be located in this general area.
But there is a noticeable degree of interpretation, although the Pendant world hung from the brow of the Empyrean, it was also identified to be within its western aspect, close to where Satan first fell.
Again if we trust the Greek wind compass in game as accurate (albeit abstract due to obfuscation), we can use it to also identify West, this might allude towards the area populated by the systems Demeter and of Fall, note that area may also encompass some elements of the Morrigan‘s systems!
This hypothesis is made unusual due to the existence of the Lost Realms, being in the totally opposite direction, we have to consider what is missing that might marry these theories together.
It’s important to note that Paradise Lost is full of accurate albeit metaphorical spacial imagery and dimensions; but how much did Brookes interpret correctly or choose to include or omit?
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Wow I was looking into Shamash while working on the images too!
A sun god but also a divine judge of the dead / underworld - a Satan-like figure?. There is a stone tablet of him, known as a Stele or Stela. Some even have spirals
If there is a Sin and Ishtar system anywhere nearby that would be very interesting.
I'm currently 1.65ly from Juemae WC-E C1-437 with the nose pointed directly at the signal. I haven't had to adjust course in the last .35lys. I think I have to be in the system that this signal is tied to. I've heard that we can't supercruise into the next system. Come to find out, I'm heading closer to Stuemeae JM-W C1-5825 So I think I will not find anything as I have started from a different system. I also think that IF the L. signal has been found, those explorers have been asked to be silent. I just can't imagine I'm the only mug out here doing what I am doing.
I have an update for you
Each sphere could be a 'zoomed-in' inner layer of Milton's description - The Cosmos, The Universe, and Earth.
Some of these connections / relationships are certainly based on me trying to "fit" his model with this design as well as seeing parallels with the ancient hebrew / old testament ideas, so it's more of an experiment.
System Info
System: HIP 18390
Station: California Freeport
Notable Factions: Sirius Atmospherics, Sirius Mining - contains all FSD injection materials
Astronomical identifiers: HD 24583, TYC 2365-2062-1, USNO-A2 1200-01839264, located in the Perseus constellation.
Idea 1 - Path runs from Heaven [Sphere 1] to enter the sphere of the cosmos [2], through the Jasper Sea, onto Earth [3], and down to the gates of Hell / Underworld.
Idea 2 - Satan's Journey (right to left) from Hell (the door is runic Haglaz / Hail / Hagl (sounds like Hell and the door "loops" from the hell side of Milton's cosmos to leave Hell), through the Chasm / Void of Chaos to Earth, the Pavilion of chaos (small circle?), 'over' the Universe, to The Empyrean / Heaven.
View attachment 381577
View attachment 381578
The question is, does it relate to anything in the game if the designers chose to represent this idea?
1. The pragmatic answer - it is a fictional celebration of Humanity's creation mythology turned into a garden landscape for tourists to enjoy. OR
2. It is a direct reference to Milton's pendent world - reinforced by MB's final tourist beacon reference. It is a clue for Raxxla. Which begs the question:
How are the other garden rooms related, if at all? Can they be tied by a common theme?
Hopefully this provides some inspiration as it came from Michael Brookes (R.I.P.), himself - Paradise Lost - The greatest story ever told
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Fixed. Sorry about that.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
And I treasure it dearly
It was during the first 24hr Christmas Livestream that Frontier did, and it was for guessing what Mike's favourite book was. (also included was his drabble from the livestream)
Did a similar experiment in Aug. 2020
From STUEMEAE JM-W C1-5825 several hour Supercruise in a straight line, but no change from where to where the signal was detectable.
Also a 16 hour Session from STUEMEAE KM-W C1-7529 same result. Turned ~90° and another hour no change.
That close to the source it should have a noticeable Parallax. Had done more Systems with shorter Sessions due to the realization that Parallax should be a thing that close. But no System had shown any sings of Parallax. If i remember correctly i may have never tried a System in a different Boxel like JUENAE. Hope you have better luck.
Thank you for that. At the moment I'm 2.65ly from Juemae WC-E C1-437. At this point, I have intersected the line between Stuemeae JM-W C1-5825 and Juenae UY-J A8-49 with no change in course. I've started to stop every .10ly now as discouragement is grabbing my heart. The intersection is important as it is defined geometry to reference to. Meaning that after I exhaust the fuel tank (leaving enough to get back to Exp. Anchorage for repairs) I'll head back to Stuemeae JM-W C1-5825 and orient to the signal. My known path will have a defined vector in the galactic map and having a new course, I suspect this new course will intersect the traveled path. This will prove my theory of starting from the system that the L. signal is tied to. Should this be the case, which I believe it is, The next step is to travel from nearby systems and intersect known travel paths and find what system this signal is tied to. I'll know when I pass a traveled path by using the distance from the starting star.
One thing of note is that I am around 8ly from CMDR Seventh_Circles defined origin. This contradicts the CMDRs claim of it being .07ly accurate. I'm not saying its wrong, just why is there such a discrepancy? Universal spin with speed of sound accounted for? Sag A's gravitational pull distorting sound? I dunno, only I admit I am quick like rock, sharp like marble.
There is also the very real issue that this may be just a game sound that needed to originate from somewhere with no meaning.
And I treasure it dearly
It was during the first 24hr Christmas Livestream that Frontier did, and it was for guessing what Mike's favourite book was. (also included was his drabble from the livestream)
What was his favourite book?
Quaero
Banned
I'm not sure of it's relative position, but there is definitely a system named Sin. I think it's pretty close to Mbooni and Viracocha
First point: Basis here is comparison between these on the tourism stations as compared both ancient and newer towers at Guardian Structures (though I believe these are quite old even still). The similarities start with geometric shapes which are sharp and angular. Next, we have the materials utilized: stone and metal. Stone and metal are building materials that are extremely durable and resistant to corrosion (especially alloys). Ram Tah claims we don't know the alloys they used. I am willing to say that statement is likely intentional misdirection. There's na alloy in the lore that has been canon since the first game: duralium (and has made consistent reappearances in the books). It is lightly bluish to dark blue-green and extremely strong. It goes by several other names including duralumin. It is used for shipping, airplanes, and spacecraft. The monuments in the tourism stations have the correct coloration to be this alloy (color is based on the mix of ores).
NOTE: Alien World: A Complete Illustrated Guide the preferred materials for producing the Talmor Lens (potentially another name for Raxxla) was stone and metal. In societies visited by the Oisir-Raxxlans stone megaliths and pyramids often were built following the interactions.
Duralumin - Wikipedia
Aluminium–copper alloys - Wikipedia
Second Point:
Region used by both Ram Tah missions (sorry this is huge area so you are best off consulting Canonn's map tool). The capital is either somewhere at the region furthest from The Bubble (approximately Cetus or possibly further out even). I believe the pool in the station is representative of location of the both the Ancient Sites and Guardian Structures (indicating the region depth and isn't just a flat level plane). The reason I stated in the first point that even the Guardian structures are quite old is the codex mentions shielded, domed cities which would obviously be much newer. We found these already: places like Vian Landing in Etain, Jeury Terminal at Major in Van Maanan's Star, and Ehrlich City on Mercury in Sol (probably the rarest of the surface ports and look like giant stadiums). They just weren't built by humans.
Third Point:
Our tech came from "Thargoids" per the Elite Pilot's Federation. Much of what we use predates our species. War has a habit of causing technological revolutions that parallel whatever is being fought (or was fought previously) - for better or worse a history of warfare linked 3 species: Humans, "Thargoids", and "Guardians". If you read Guardian Data - Technology, there are obvious parallels to Pilots' Federation core technologies. If you have ever interacted with comms arrays and similar systems, you'll be keenly aware that our comms systems mix secure and unsecured content, science and military, and trade.
Fourth point:
It's a 2-D representation of a 3-D structure just like the Raxxla logo. Think Citadel from Mass Effect and you'll have the approximate structure. Even the inside of stations is modified version of this concept. The version in the tourist station is overly simplfied with 3 planes instead of 6 from the Raxxla logo. Holdstock's cosmos borrows heavily from Larry Niven. Bascially, you have a huge ring at one or both ends then establish planes that may or may not interlock. Omphalos Rift here being the gigantic central ring with a gate between universes. A very similar structure is descibed in Tour of the Universe in which a starliner not unlike the Antares vanished on Christmas Eve of 2286. As best I can tell, this is the only true mis-jump in the lore (and it wasn't the only incident). Stargates in Holdstock's writings are large rings with a docking area arranged in several planes. I am presuming the Omphalos Rift is a very ancient structure and will look different from the more modern stations derived from the core structural shape.
More screenshots with much more details captured (note the hills to emphasize distance). Includes captures of the alien looking towers vs structures we encountered with the Guardians. There's another parallel I just remembered. Most of the books mention the chairs of the ships as some combination between a chair and a gel cushion (not unlike a bean-bag chair). The same imagery comes up in the Guardian codex and logs discussing their ships. I have included several other images like a galactic map of the permit regions for added context.
Detailed views – Google Drive
drive.google.com
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In light of the fact that ideas appear to be coalescing that will hopefully help enlighten this mystery, I bring forth a philosophical point raised by the settlers of Phekda. They more than others, seem to be the inspiration for the Elite Pilots' Federation logo. The logo matches their deity, the Akkadian deity Mummu. The problem, the renounced Earth and vowed to get as far as possible from it. The considered Earth to be not worth saving.
I along with others set in motion events that cannot be stopped once started. Are we sure Raxxla isn't dangerous? My role is this has been an outsized one. This thought haunts my mind. Did I do the right thing or did I doom the very species I had vowed to protect? It cannot be undone at this point but lessons can still be learned.
At this point, I'd settle for cosmic enlightenment.
en.wikipedia.org
I along with others set in motion events that cannot be stopped once started. Are we sure Raxxla isn't dangerous? My role is this has been an outsized one. This thought haunts my mind. Did I do the right thing or did I doom the very species I had vowed to protect? It cannot be undone at this point but lessons can still be learned.
At this point, I'd settle for cosmic enlightenment.
Mummu - Wikipedia
Thanks for taking the time to elaborateFirst point: Basis here is comparison between these on the tourism stations as compared both ancient and newer towers at Guardian Structures (though I believe these are quite old even still). The similarities start with geometric shapes which are sharp and angular. Next, we have the materials utilized: stone and metal. Stone and metal are building materials that are extremely durable and resistant to corrosion (especially alloys). Ram Tah claims we don't know the alloys they used. I am willing to say that statement is likely intentional misdirection. There's na alloy in the lore that has been canon since the first game: duralium (and has made consistent reappearances in the books). It is lightly bluish to dark blue-green and extremely strong. It goes by several other names including duralumin. It is used for shipping, airplanes, and spacecraft. The monuments in the tourism stations have the correct coloration to be this alloy (color is based on the mix of ores).
NOTE: Alien World: A Complete Illustrated Guide the preferred materials for producing the Talmor Lens (potentially another name for Raxxla) was stone and metal. In societies visited by the Oisir-Raxxlans stone megaliths and pyramids often were built following the interactions.
Duralumin - Wikipedia
Aluminium–copper alloys - Wikipedia
Second Point:
Region used by both Ram Tah missions (sorry this is huge area so you are best off consulting Canonn's map tool). The capital is either somewhere at the region furthest from The Bubble (approximately Cetus or possibly further out even). I believe the pool in the station is representative of location of the both the Ancient Sites and Guardian Structures (indicating the region depth and isn't just a flat level plane). The reason I stated in the first point that even the Guardian structures are quite old is the codex mentions shielded, domed cities which would obviously be much newer. We found these already: places like Vian Landing in Etain, Jeury Terminal at Major in Van Maanan's Star, and Ehrlich City on Mercury in Sol (probably the rarest of the surface ports and look like giant stadiums). They just weren't built by humans.
Third Point:
Our tech came from "Thargoids" per the Elite Pilot's Federation. Much of what we use predates our species. War has a habit of causing technological revolutions that parallel whatever is being fought (or was fought previously) - for better or worse a history of warfare linked 3 species: Humans, "Thargoids", and "Guardians". If you read Guardian Data - Technology, there are obvious parallels to Pilots' Federation core technologies. If you have ever interacted with comms arrays and similar systems, you'll be keenly aware that our comms systems mix secure and unsecured content, science and military, and trade.
Fourth point:
It's a 2-D representation of a 3-D structure just like the Raxxla logo. Think Citadel from Mass Effect and you'll have the approximate structure. Even the inside of stations is modified version of this concept. The version in the tourist station is overly simplfied with 3 planes instead of 6 from the Raxxla logo. Holdstock's cosmos borrows heavily from Larry Niven. Bascially, you have a huge ring at one or both ends then establish planes that may or may not interlock. Omphalos Rift here being the gigantic central ring with a gate between universes. A very similar structure is descibed in Tour of the Universe in which a starliner not unlike the Antares vanished on Christmas Eve of 2286. As best I can tell, this is the only true mis-jump in the lore (and it wasn't the only incident). Stargates in Holdstock's writings are large rings with a docking area arranged in several planes. I am presuming the Omphalos Rift is a very ancient structure and will look different from the more modern stations derived from the core structural shape.
More screenshots with much more details captured (note the hills to emphasize distance). Includes captures of the alien looking towers vs structures we encountered with the Guardians. There's another parallel I just remembered. Most of the books mention the chairs of the ships as some combination between a chair and a gel cushion (not unlike a bean-bag chair). The same imagery comes up in the Guardian codex and logs discussing their ships. I have included several other images like a galactic map of the permit regions for added context.
Detailed views – Google Drive
