The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

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CryEngine is a very eye-candy current generation gaming engine.
It's not next generation and doesn't look like it will be.
However I'm not in the mood for a debate.
Well cry engine and many more support the latest hardware features and
api. The engine you mention are those of old fame. but not ,or very late upgraded. They are well know and often used by other devs. IDsoft and valve choose not to support dx10 or opengl feature equivalent but stick what similar to consoles. So it not the right engine if you want to push your game with the latest featurers. Often these are gFX related. But hardware testalation is one of those that stand out. Depending if your game can use it at decent up scaling of detail.
Maybe you can teach me based on your expert knowledge of DirectX.
the expertise is that any of those engine you can make great games. but you need a GREAT Game designer with a great vision who can execute it vision to reality as implemented.

The greatness of half life is not the engine that is it foundation. But the game design its execution thus implementation. And polish. Also a game with strong story. is not relevant for a engine. Most of those game's can be implemented on all those engines.
Maybe read the post I was replying to.
I have read many post trashing the cryengine. just like yours
You liking or not liking them doesn't really matter though does it.
They are all proven examples of excellence in PC gaming.

So give them a other engine and not much changes.

Ghost recon advanced warfighter used a other engine then console version. It tweaked different for PC gamers and uses Havok and PhysX SDK.

So My vision is that game engines are a foundation which carry the game. but not make the game. Licensable engine are with out exception of much higher level then in-house. The difference is the tool chains is also primary part of engine.

Next to game engine is middleware. Some SDK systems are more then 5 years of evolution of these SDK. It not possible to get on that same level in house in meager 2 years from scratch.

Also Valve uses quake as there first engine and the source engine is there branch of of IDtech.

Just like SC has the full source code license to there engine and is also a fresh branch of. But a SC specific one. Even Valve did not start from scratch.

If you look up the family tree of all ID tech based engines it huge.
 
I have read many post trashing the cryengine. just like yours

That specific quote wasn't about CryEngine remember? It was about calling SC a racing genre game among others. Please read.

Also I'm not thrashing CryEngine, I'm just calling it a non-next-generation engine, because it isn't.
 
Maybe is just doing... what their asking him to do ;)

Check the latest track for the Racing maps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k53T_GxHs-0

Or some stuff he made in 2011 like the "Awakening City": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfRiGrye8dQ

Or on another note is Requiem of "Inês de Castro" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UYux-nfh4Y

Is very versatile and has as much passion for music as for gaming. (he has five PCs and 176 GB of RAM wich he built himself, cause of the cabbling, noise reduction has to be perfect etc)

He did has a degree in classical music from the National Conservatory that normaly takes 8 years, but it took him only 4 years (A+ grades every single year).

You might know is work already since he made the soundtrack of may iconic old games as Monkey Island and Civilization 5 or the main them for the upcoming Witcher 3.

Lol. I'm not criticizing the guy, good for him if he has a musical degree. Music goes well with cinematic stuff but not something I would like to play on the radio of my ship.

I also play guitar, compose and record music and have no musical studies what so ever. :D
 
I also enjoy Pedro's music. He's getting to be one of my favourites, along with the likes of Jerry Goldsmith (+ his son), James Horner and John Williams.
 

Mu77ley

Volunteer Moderator
You might know is work already since he made the soundtrack of may iconic old games as Monkey Island and Civilization 5 or the main them for the upcoming Witcher 3.

No he didn't/isn't.

The Monkey Island music was composed by Michael Land, and the Civilization V music was by Michael Curran and Geoff Knorr.

Plus the music for Witcher 3 has been composed by Marcin Przybyłowicz.
 
Oh your throwing "Elitism Card", how cute.

Just cause people didnt backed doesnt mean they didnt follow it for has long. Your "reason" is flawed and COD'ish to say the least.

But your right, i mixed my Dates/Figures, BUT, if you read this interview:

“We’re a little different to some of the crowd-funded [games] that go way over [their target] the game was never actually a $2 million game,” said Roberts.

“It was, at the smallest version, it was a 12 to 14 million dollar game.

So the deal I originally did was I had investors lined up for $10 million, and that money triggered if I raised between two and four million on crowd funding.” Chris went on to explain that they were expecting to “at least get to two [million] to prove there was a demand” for space sims on the PC to make a comeback.

The plan from that point was that [Star Citizen] would launch it a bit sooner and think of it like Minecraft where Notch had it, and you had the Alpha where he was using money from Alpha sales to finish the game.” Roberts went on to point out that doing it that way helped the folks at Mojang bring in around $40 million (and counting.) “So, ultimately the big game that I wanted to make was approximately $20 million on the minimum side.”

All of this about the $23 million being the true budget was said in Nov 2013 when the entire scope of the game was changed. It was changed from a lets do core game play, to lets do everything at once. Nothing has changed since November 2013, the scope and the quality is still the same. "


Also on the engine, i believe CryEngine used by them is heavly moddified by now, it has to be, it was not made primarily for space/open games , but even if i dont know the technicalities behind it i have faith in the games, we already saw good progress in terms of netcode in the DFM.

Back to music, Pedro´swork is amazing, no wonder why is working for SC and Witcher3.

My fav Pedro´s song from SC is still the old launcher theme -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxapjbdQEqQ

I'm not bringing in Elitism into this at all. You are the one who stated it. All I stated was how long I have been following it. If you have been following it for just as long as I have, then you would of known the exact same facts I just told you.

It does not change the fact that CR/CIG stated that $23 million was the true budget for them to build the game with the current quality and the current feature set.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Dissapointing, but not necessarily surprising. They've missed deadlines like this in the past for much the same reasons.

Not excusing it, just saying it's kind of their style. :)
 
Dissapointing, but not necessarily surprising. They've missed deadlines like this in the past for much the same reasons.

Not excusing it, just saying it's kind of their style. :)

Just hope they do give us a surprise this time and actually implement keybinding on 0.9 (no presets not equal to keybinding)
 
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Let me state that this game looks like what I wanted as a kid: my own spaceship to walk around in! I can imagine that that requires a lot of effort.

Here I find that they needed $500,000 to make it:
FvRqKBo.png


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

They raised a hundred times that amount. So I'd expect them to make the stated goal for the old price, and then later use up the remaining 99% to add improvements.

No. Plus they are not making the stated goal for the timelines, not even close. So the extra money is being burnt on waste and rework. That is backer money and there is no accountability to investors for deal-breaking decisions like choosing a 32-bit game engine for a huge space game and not disclosing the risk or requirement that the entire engine would have to be re-written.

You need to read the full kickstarter page and watch the videos. The $500K was just to prove to investors with more money that there would be a market and an ROI for giving CR money to make the game. He targeted 10-14 million to make the base game and $23 million to make the full deal in two years time (with parallel development of multiple modules/features).

SQ42 was pledged in two years if the kickstarter succeeded at $500K and the full list if they got just $6 million from Kickstarter.

Where are they now? Almost two years and $54 million and lame AC with tiny play area, racing game coming with tiny play area and video of multiplayer in cloud-shrouded environment where main ship constantly turned to the right to avoid the simulation wall of AC. Where is the awesome actual gameplay they showed in the kickstarter video- why not just release that? It is a huge amount better than Arena Commander and what I was initially excited about.

CR is counting on 64-bit re-write of CryEngine to save the entire core concept. Delays past two years means CR needs more money than $23 million. Just get a calculator and paper and figure out what 250 employees at average cost of $100 K USD / yr totals (full burden with insurance, PC, phone, facilities, etc. and a contracting agency would charge quite a bit more than that). Hint, it is $25 million USD per year. Even with lower sourced wages in UK with tax breaks that means total two years max at the base $23 million USD funding level. This means the entire original estimate of $23 million will most likely be gone at the end of 2014. At $50 million funding level CR should have 2 more years so he could still make it happen, but at twice the cost of his original sales pitch.

This is where the discipline of having to answer to investors pays off in efficiency and eliminating waste. SC has delays and unexpected issues bordering on if not plainly showing incompetence (32-bit game engine for huge space game is the biggest and not being able to implement keybindings for a major commercial game engine is bizarre). Delays also mean the backer's money (your money?) is being wasted just to correct for these issues. In project management at a for-profit company any PM not having a glaring Risk matrix with 32-bit engine at the top of the list after working with it for a full year as CR stated his team had done, and whose project had so many long and unexpected/unpublished delays would be "spending more time with family".

Is CR the man for the job? He may succeed based on the talent of folks he brings around him, but like most high-flying execs he is not a "self-made man". He is hurting his own dream game with poor decisions, waste and too fast feature creep from the core concept.

The difference between the management of the Elite Dangerous project and Start Citizen is stark and should make a good MBA case study. Elite started kickstarter without even concept art, two months behind SC. SC had a full year of development such as at Kickstart they had slick video sold as in-game/ actual models and gameplay. Fast forward 18 months and Elite already has in public beta a 50 star system 1:1 scale 3D play area with no loading screens, settled flight model and control scheme with bindable keys, multiple playable ships, docking in massive space-stations, multiple modes of travel not involving loading screens, spot-on sound design, mission system, trade economy, etc. While you know what SC has and it ain't even close to Elite. When CR team fixes the 64-bit problem they still don't know how to get 1:1 but more like 1:100 scale, per developer video logs. The game will still require cut-scenes/loading screens and lobbies to manage entry to the various modules.
 
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The difference between the management of the Elite Dangerous project and Start Citizen is stark and should make a good MBA case study. Elite started kickstarter without even concept art, two months behind SC. SC had a full year of development such as at Kickstart they had slick video sold as in-game/ actual models and gameplay. Fast forward 18 months and Elite already has in public beta a 50 star system 1:1 scale 3D play area with no loading screens, settled flight model and control scheme with bindable keys, multiple playable ships, docking in massive space-stations, multiple modes of travel not involving loading screens, spot-on sound design, mission system, trade economy, etc. While you know what SC has and it ain't even close to Elite. When CR team fixes the 64-bit problem they still don't know how to get 1:1 but more like 1:100 scale, per developer video logs. The game will still require cut-scenes/loading screens and lobbies to manage entry to the various modules.

While you raised some interesting points. I have to disagree with your last tid bit here.

For instance, Elite has been a skunk work project for a long time, we don't know how much got done in that time, it's full development started before/around kickstarter with a team of 100+ people. Not to mention FD is an established studio since 1990's with 200+ employees and an engine they build themselves and used in multiple games.

On the other hand we have CIG which was not even a studio, started with a team of 10 people working from homes. While FD was working full speed on their former skunkwork project before kickstarter with a full team of 100+ people. During this time CIG was building their studio and trying to find people to make the game. This time they lost in building the studio and finding the people to make the game is why there is such a drastic difference in how much got done, CIG lost months and months of time.

Altough now here they are 2 years later, they have 150ish CIG employees and 100 contractors working for them. That takes time to build up to. Where as FD had the team from day one. You can't compare a well established studio to a newly formed one. One has its kinks figured out long ago, and another one is still figuring them out.

Also CIG was never going for a 1:1 scaled universe like Elite is going for.
 
Ain't that 200 the whole FD's task force, but only half of them fully dedicated to ED development?

They're working on the funny rollercoaster game and probably some other games too.
 
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Ain't that 200 the whole FD's task force, but only half of them fully dedicated to ED development?

They're working on the funny rollercoaster game and probably some other games too.
AFAIK there are only around 80 people working on Elite. FD has other projects in the works besides Elite.
 

Tiggo

Banned
what i dont understand:

The idea behind having different studios doing different parts of the game is, that these can specialize in what they are doing.

now i always hear: Austin helps with AC, Squadron42 helps with AC and does bugfixing and Q/A, "we working around the globe 24h to make 0.9 happen"

i say asparagus? This is not how vertical sliced development works? What kind of chaos project is this, when other studios/departments have to constantly help Los Angeles to get INTERNAL deadlines right, and even then they still miss these?
 
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On the other hand we have CIG which was not even a studio, started with a team of 10 people working from homes. While FD was working full speed on their former skunkwork project before kickstarter with a full team of 100+ people. During this time CIG was building their studio and trying to find people to make the game. This time they lost in building the studio and finding the people to make the game is why there is such a drastic difference in how much got done, CIG lost months and months of time.


CIG should have done more skunkwork too.
It's just another sign that they went in unprepared for the job at hand.
 
We will be working around the globe through the holiday weekend to deliver on the promise of V0.9.

This should be enough fuel for the fanboys to white-knight vs critics all through the weekend :D


If they're struggling this much on the AC, just think that they haven't even started on the basic stuff for the PU which is by far the most complicated of the modules.

I mean when they implement the basic feature of keybinding, it's actually going to be an important accomplishment for CIG.
Compare keybinding to the myriad ones we've been promised and think how hard it's going to be for them to implement those.

I'm hoping the development eventually picks up speed but I'm growing less confident with every patch they try to put out...

late 2017 - early 2018 at best
 

psyron

Banned
And about the weekly video updates from SC?

Some say that it's one of the great thing that CIG takes time for their backers to explain everything.

Though sometimes ED fans wish to get more information about the coming features, honestly on this i share more the view of Kerrash Landing:

"David Braben is really patientanted about creating this fantastic game ... but it doesn't come across, you know, Frontier are so busy to make this game, they don't have a lot of time people to spare messing around making video all the time telling people where they are and things like that ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTEG2pIwYsA&t=10m

SC videos are very often commercials, not really informative and clearly targeting young people in the first place.
Though i have watched all of them, i never really got impressed - apart from some nice concepts shown from time to time.
 
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