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I have one contact who has spent a few thousand dollars already. He is starting to become: "disillusioned", his word. I don't think I am bashing SC because I don't like the cockpit, but I am interested in reality for other gamers, as I am one myself.
Drilling down on the details of SC -- I am a funder -- is truly important work. I just want to say that the debate in here has been educational for me. I have been a moderator in RL and in gaming for a total of fifty years.
As a moderator, what strikes me and makes me smile is the level of mutual respect I'm feeling in this community. It's the very first thing you recognize. And after years of trying to be the big fat boss, and the prison guard version (I wore fake eyelashes and lots of makeup to hide my fear), I came to a simple truth: the Golden Rule.
Once the Golden Rule is in place, great fun ensues:
I was able to step down from my fearful control of people and become one of the group. By being involved with the conversation I learned to be the example, not the cop. In the 35 years of bartending I only had to bar TWO people. There was never a fight, and no one ever got into a car accident after leaving me.
I know this won't feel good, but in reality if you have to threaten to close a thread or threaten people with black marks, you have already failed. I was a total failure at it for the first couple of years, but I was so cute, they let me live. Then I got it: I had to treat people the way I wanted to be treated.
That meant people could love me and we could all have tons of fun. I was trusted to be loving, generous and funny...and respectful. And I was consistent: the rock!
Aleksei has potatoed me twice so far. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! If he gets out the whip, we're going to have a word.
I hate pain.
Drilling down on the details of SC -- I am a funder -- is truly important work. I just want to say that the debate in here has been educational for me. I have been a moderator in RL and in gaming for a total of fifty years.
As a moderator, what strikes me and makes me smile is the level of mutual respect I'm feeling in this community. It's the very first thing you recognize. And after years of trying to be the big fat boss, and the prison guard version (I wore fake eyelashes and lots of makeup to hide my fear), I came to a simple truth: the Golden Rule.
Once the Golden Rule is in place, great fun ensues:
I was able to step down from my fearful control of people and become one of the group. By being involved with the conversation I learned to be the example, not the cop. In the 35 years of bartending I only had to bar TWO people. There was never a fight, and no one ever got into a car accident after leaving me.
I know this won't feel good, but in reality if you have to threaten to close a thread or threaten people with black marks, you have already failed. I was a total failure at it for the first couple of years, but I was so cute, they let me live. Then I got it: I had to treat people the way I wanted to be treated.
That meant people could love me and we could all have tons of fun. I was trusted to be loving, generous and funny...and respectful. And I was consistent: the rock!
Aleksei has potatoed me twice so far. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! If he gets out the whip, we're going to have a word.
I hate pain.
From what I can tell, that really depends on exactly why you think it's cheating.
- SC is intending 'some' areas (of the universe?) to force PvP.
- the rest of the universe you have the option of "online, PvE only" which is probably safer than Elite's "solo only".
IMHO both models are flawed in different ways.
The reason why space citizen will be dumbed down is simple.
The majority of the video game audience are people who do not think much, and seek instant fun from video games. That is why the market is dominated by FPS games. They are easy to learn and to play, and most people feel the insant reward of killing an enemy. If CIG were to make a non-dumbed down and complicated version of star cititzen that has a very realistic flight model, and release it at the same time as the newest call of duty shooter, with the same media spotlight as the call of duty game, this would happen:
The two games would be very poplar in the first weeks, but then it gets unbalanced. Many players would start complaining how hard and complicated star cititzen is. Half a year later, the call of duty game would have much more popularity and players than star citizen, as the shooter is much easier to learn and does not require complex thinking or coordination. Eventually, star citizen would have a player base that is tiny compared to the call of duty game.
If star citizen would be easier and more dumbed down, then it would have gotten much more profit and players.
It's the falut of the community.
The majority of the video game audience are people who do not think much, and seek instant fun from video games. That is why the market is dominated by FPS games. They are easy to learn and to play, and most people feel the insant reward of killing an enemy. If CIG were to make a non-dumbed down and complicated version of star cititzen that has a very realistic flight model, and release it at the same time as the newest call of duty shooter, with the same media spotlight as the call of duty game, this would happen:
The two games would be very poplar in the first weeks, but then it gets unbalanced. Many players would start complaining how hard and complicated star cititzen is. Half a year later, the call of duty game would have much more popularity and players than star citizen, as the shooter is much easier to learn and does not require complex thinking or coordination. Eventually, star citizen would have a player base that is tiny compared to the call of duty game.
If star citizen would be easier and more dumbed down, then it would have gotten much more profit and players.
It's the falut of the community.
I dont like this sort of thing myself but I wouldn't put it under the category of dumbing down, rather pandering to what some people pejoratively refer to as carebears, which I have no doubt CIG will pander to bigtime as well.
Dumbing down is things like the AC's big orange arrow, follow the mouse flight control, zero order mouse gunnery, wall to wall gimbolitis, etc etc. When it comes to dumbing down I'm afraid AC currently has no equal. Fingers crossed this will change over time.
You can call it dumbing down if you like but I think you're just confusing the debate by mixing up a completely different but equally hot topic.
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Well, I kind of agree with Philux. It is sort of a cheat mode when you are able to enter Solo mode and ignore any players, make your money, then hop onto the All Server to do whatever you want.
But I do agree with you, follow the arrow, mouse flight, zero order mouse gunnery and the huge gimball ability are pretty much dumbing down, no matter how you want to spin it.
The mouse is point and click, you can't really spin that. The big arrow I think is in there mostly because the radar is not really all that functional, at least I hope that is the case. Because if the arrow remains, there is really no reason to use the radar when you have an arrow to point you to the destination, it takes skill to use the radar. Hell, even Frontier commented on this not long ago about how less immersive it became using the arrow and how dependent they became on it, even ignoring the radar all together because of the arrow.
The other issue is of course the gimbals currently in SC, they take up almost the entire screen and are independently amiable. I think that is kind of ludicrous, especially since it's an advantage for people who use a mouse and something like OR/IR5 for aiming. I mean I have only so many hands, the gimbal should be something like how it is implemented in Elite in all honesty.
Anyway the next few months will be pretty good indication of SC's gameplay when the flight model is more refined. I mean things such as multi-crew, FPS etc, are all just icing on the cake. The most important part is the flight and so far it takes no skill and there is no fun in it.
psyron
Banned
Yeah!
ONE question i really would hear to be answered by CR is how much time an average player has to spend in the game to be able to buy one of those new ships with in game credits earned by gameplay!!!
But i guess they will NOT talk about this question because
- either it will be feasible in a reasonable period of time and make those who have bought the ships with real money extremely angry
- or it will be extremely difficult and make the rest of the players upset!
What do you think? Or has this question already been answered?
I totally agree, for the purposes of debate I'm just making the distinction, one issue relates to the whole aversion to pvp effecting so many games, and in this particular case a mechanism for pandering to it that sounds badly thought out to boot, the other is the separate issue of plain and simple dumbing down.
As for this solo mode, I haven't tried it. I'm hoping it isn't as cracked as you guys make it sound. However I won't disagree with you if it really is a case of being able to jump in an out of PVP to suit.
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^^Thanks for the insight into your personal psychology
No problem. Again, I'm suggesting that it is incredibly useful to treat people the way you want to be treated and not the way you have been treated in the past. I'm not saying this stuff for me.
That's one answer I'm eagerly waiting for more detail on as well. Because of their finance model and lack of clarification I personally won't back the game beyond a basic package at this point.
I guess everything is in flux right now and until they iron out the details of a number of gameplay elements we won't hear how things are going to pan out with regards to in-game ship prices and expected UEC earnings p/h, atleast I hope it's that rather than an unspoken encouragement to cash in early.
As someone said above, it's expected to be around 60hrs to get enough to buy a Constellation... Of course that's not a definitive figure, because they haven't balanced the game yet. But that's the figure Chris Roberts gave as a yardstick.
the 60 hours of game play to get a connie was from CR but it was over a year ago during the 24 hour live stream
it comes up every now and then in the forums but has never been confirmed or denied in type as far as I know and I doubt it ever will as there are so many variables
how long does ED say it will take to get from a sidewinder to a mkIII or a boa?
I would guess and it is only a guess that it is still the plan for someone that has played the game well for 60hrs or so will be able to afford a connie after all the connie is supposed to be a fairly common multi use ship
I guess the problem is where real money can assigned to a product and therefore someone always gets the short end of the stick.
Say a Connie is $250, so 25 hours at $10 p/h. Hypothetically you're now talking '$600' for an in-game Connie
Perhaps with multi-crew ships a group of friends could pool their resources to pay for it?I don't think Elite can fall into the same comparison because there's no external value to compare, although Frontier surely have an idea of expected credits p/h.
Just to be clear I'm not criticising, It's just an idiosyncrasy and perhaps a by-product of their fundraising method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZqKNlRK7yg&list=UUxzC4EngIsMrPmbm6Nxvb-A
Scott Manley has done an update on SC - constellation stuff mainly, but has some interesting things to say. He's gone and blinged for the Phoenix but I guess seeing has he already has Rear Admiral, money is not a problem
Scott Manley has done an update on SC - constellation stuff mainly, but has some interesting things to say. He's gone and blinged for the Phoenix but I guess seeing has he already has Rear Admiral, money is not a problem
psyron
Banned
Right, otherwise there really would be people playing SC for 100+ hours and selling their account for 200-400$. This would be around 2-4$/hour, which still is a very good salary for many people in the world.
However you turn it - selling ships makes no sense other than for CIG to make money of course.
Once they would clearly say that all ships can also be acquired in-game nobody would buy them anymore. That's why they prefer not to discuss this point too openly.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Nice.
Did they talk about how they are going to handle that? Switching from 'tiers' to a system where you just choose your hangar?
I've been in love with that asteroid hangar they've shown tidbits of for a long time. Would love to have that, even for my Avenger.
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