The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

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But I don't understand what is there to criticise about the AC map? There is a reason why it is the way it is.

Are you saying everyone should like it? How is it hard for you to understand that for every single thing ever, you'll have people who like it and people who don't.
Both sides can have legitimate reasons, you go with the ones that make more sense to you (maybe even comparing it to other projects you've followed or been part of).

If you refuse to use sound judgement and prefer to jump on the bandwagon of fanboism or haterism then that's your choice.
 
Are you saying everyone should like it? How is it hard for you to understand that for every single thing ever, you'll have people who like it and people who don't.
Both sides can have legitimate reasons, you go with the ones that make more sense to you (maybe even comparing it to other projects you've followed or been part of).

If you refuse to use sound judgement and prefer to jump on the bandwagon of fanboism or haterism then that's your choice.

Would people like driving on a highway that is being built? Not that much. But that's what I am saying. There is not a single thing that can be done about that and if there was there would be no AC for a while still.

You can like AC or not. I generally look at things from a bit more on the development side not the product side especially when we talk about map sizes or AC functionality.

I am not telling people to love AC or hate AC. People can do whatever they want. But with 32bit this is the map sizes they can push to. They can increase their maps at most %15 more with the current build.

Things are the way because that is their current engine situation and they are in the process of switching to 64bit. With that they will also add the multi crew ships and other scenarios to AC to test out PU stuff.

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Btw in the next month we will see some new stuff from the Idris frigate. Which I am very looking forward to. It's one of the significant Squadron 42 ships that we will get to test in AC 3.0. Which is ways off but seeing the Idris again with inside screenshots would be sweet.
 
And there is a reason they released it like that. They could have said nope we'll do the 64 bit implementation now so you guys will get Arena Commander in December 2014. And that's not the right choice at all.

Doing 64bit precision before any other coding first would have been the best choice.
It's only because they realized to late that they needed it that they did it the other way around.
 
Doing 64bit precision before any other coding first would have been the best choice.
It's only because they realized to late that they needed it that they did it the other way around.

So much for mature&professional development processes. Sometimes I wonder where all the software architects have gone.
 
Doing 64bit precision before any other coding first would have been the best choice.
It's only because they realized to late that they needed it that they did it the other way around.

Chris talked about double precision prettly early on even before the AC 0.8 release. They knew it all along. That's why they released 32bit now so people can get to play quicker and decided to add the 64 bit later for the bigger ships release AC 2.0. Which guess what... makes total sense? Right now for single fighters the maps are fine to have matches but bigger maps will be really needed for AC 2.0 with bigger multi crew ships.
 
Would people like driving on a highway that is being built? Not that much.

It depends on the highway.
I've played alpha's that were very very fun and I didn't mind the lack of features at all.


There is not a single thing that can be done about that and if there was there would be no AC for a while still.

But you assume that the AC as it is today came here without the developers taking any decisions at all. They could have made different decisions and produced a very different alpha version.

It still baffles me that you give 500k people the chance to play an early version of your game and you concentrate more effort on getting leaderboards done instead of keybindings.
However what baffles me even more is that there's people who will defend this as a sane approach.

I understand how one feature is multitudes more important for backend development of the project, however the other feature is multitudes more important for the enjoyment of the gamers.
If you're relying (to that degree) on the understanding and patience of your playerbase, you really aren't doing it right.
Jezus christ just delay it for another few weeks and get the keybindings done, especially when people are already used to your delays.


I am not telling people to love AC or hate AC.

Yeah but you call them "armchair CEOs" or refer sarcastically to their development experience when they criticize AC.
 
Yeah but you call them "armchair CEOs" or refer sarcastically to their development experience when they criticize AC.

Because let's face it it's always easy to criticise other people's work and tell them how to do it right. Especially when you are not doing what they are doing. That's why I try to refrain from telling people how to do things better unless they ask for advice. If I don't know about the subject, I start with ''I am not experienced in this field but these are my thoughts'' kind of sentence.

AC has several priorities. One of them being multiplayer which is just because SC is going to be a big multiplayer universe and the earlier they start working on the multiplayer the better. The other one is balancing and bug fixing. Which had several passes. A lot of the stability issues are gone there are still quiet a few remaining which will hopefully disappear soon.

But while a lot of people say keybindings and map sizes should be the priority I think they just think about themselves and not about the project as a whole. The SC production team looks at whats good for the project as a whole and decides the priorities according to that. Tackling MP issues head on being one of the significant ones as an example.

Leaderboards is another one which is not just about tracking how good you are between thousands of people but is going to be used as a metric tool for Star Citizen on the CIG side. To determine balancing issues, Kill death ratios and many many other statistics to observe data that is coming out from AC Single and Multiplayer.

More things will come soon which will satisfy other parts of the community.
 
You talk with great certainty.

You're sure on what all of AC's priorities are.
You're sure on where CIG is taking this game.
You're sure that every decision they've made is the correct one.
You're sure on which feature we'll get to test on which iteration of the client.
You're sure on features that will satisfy other parts of the community.
and so many other overwhelmingly positive comments you've made with absolute certainty.

You're either a CIG employee (a very very confident one) or you should be :)
(I meant it as a compliment)


I find it ironic that it's so early in development and people shouldn't expect many features but it's ok to expect every feature under the sun in perfect implementation later on in development.


I also can't believe you called people who want keybindings selfish.
Why do I even bother with conversations like these :S
 
Because let's face it it's always easy to criticise other people's work and tell them how to do it right. Especially when you are not doing what they are doing. That's why I try to refrain from telling people how to do things better unless they ask for advice. If I don't know about the subject, I start with ''I am not experienced in this field but these are my thoughts'' kind of sentence.

AC has several priorities. One of them being multiplayer which is just because SC is going to be a big multiplayer universe and the earlier they start working on the multiplayer the better. The other one is balancing and bug fixing. Which had several passes. A lot of the stability issues are gone there are still quiet a few remaining which will hopefully disappear soon.

But while a lot of people say keybindings and map sizes should be the priority I think they just think about themselves and not about the project as a whole. The SC production team looks at whats good for the project as a whole and decides the priorities according to that. Tackling MP issues head on being one of the significant ones as an example.

Leaderboards is another one which is not just about tracking how good you are between thousands of people but is going to be used as a metric tool for Star Citizen on the CIG side. To determine balancing issues, Kill death ratios and many many other statistics to observe data that is coming out from AC Single and Multiplayer.

More things will come soon which will satisfy other parts of the community.

This is very true, a project is always developed according to the goals the developers have for it. To give an example for ED too, the reason that FDEV put thousands of players in 5 star systems with a fast moving market when the first premium beta got out was to acquire data and test both the networking and the volatility rate of the economy under heavy pressure.

Moreover, the development process itself is a testing bed for different mechanics that can and do change according to the feedback acquired from the community.

For example, take a look at the way weapon targeting works in AC. When 0.8 came out, CIG clearly communicated to us that all weapon mounts would be converted to class 2 (gimbaled) status, and class 1 mounts would be reserved in the future for a couple of rare and special weapon types (like capital anti-ship weapons or very high DP weapons like the Scythes' cannon). After almost a month of feedback from the playerbase, CIG changed their design on the subject (communicated via Travis Day), so now we know that future iterations will have fixed mount weapons with leading indicators.

The same can be argued for ED too, concerning the way gimbaled weapons track and hit. We have gone through a couple of iterations at least on this mechanic, and more are coming too in the future fueled by player feedback from here and other sources.

Having said that though, I really don't understand why CIG has not put a bigger priority on key bindings in the first place (before even the MP AC rolled out). It seems like a very, very big priority to me..especially since we are talking about a space sim here.
 
Chris talked about double precision prettly early on even before the AC 0.8 release. They knew it all along.

AC 0.8 is not the same as 'all along'.
If they had known it all along, then that would mean before Kickstarter.
They could have saved themselves a lot of work had they known and worked on it all along.
 
Chris talked about double precision prettly early on even before the AC 0.8 release. They knew it all along. That's why they released 32bit now so people can get to play quicker and decided to add the 64 bit later for the bigger ships release AC 2.0. Which guess what... makes total sense? Right now for single fighters the maps are fine to have matches but bigger maps will be really needed for AC 2.0 with bigger multi crew ships.

Comment withdrawn in light of Dante's response below - which I have now read more thoroughly.
 
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We have talked about this in the past ianw. The original plan for SC was to have 32bit precision and use CRYENGINEs' "shattered worlds" approach to dynamic grid segmentation so as to depict the playing field. The plan was later changed to take advantage of DFPP, so CIG are working on it.
 
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We have talked about this. The original plan for SC was to have 32bit precision and use CRYENGINEs' "shattered worlds" approach to dynamic grid segmentation so as to depict the playing field. The plan was later changed to take advantage of DFPP, so CIG are working on it.

Dante - thanks for the reminder.

ETA - With your edit I see you have a better memory than I for this thread - are you keeping notes? :D
 
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We have talked about this in the past ianw. The original plan for SC was to have 32bit precision and use CRYENGINEs' "shattered worlds" approach to dynamic grid segmentation so as to depict the playing field. The plan was later changed to take advantage of DFPP, so CIG are working on it.

That makes much more sense. Unfortunately with SC you never know how the things really are, it's just all smoke&mirrors.
 
Dante - thanks for the reminder.

ETA - With your edit I see you have a better memory than I for this thread - are you keeping notes? :D

Its not that he has better memory its just that is looking at this project from a rational, infomative and fair perspective. Others should start doing the same. 😉
 
We have talked about this in the past ianw. The original plan for SC was to have 32bit precision and use CRYENGINEs' "shattered worlds" approach to dynamic grid segmentation so as to depict the playing field. The plan was later changed to take advantage of DFPP, so CIG are working on it.

Exactly. What Star Citizen was planned to be on the kickstarter campaign and what it plans to be now drastically changed mainly because of funding. Chris Roberts started talking about double precision as early as January this year.

What I meant with all along there was for AC. When they were developing it they knew the limitations already.

Dante is the monthly report today? That's what I am really looking forward to now. Hope for some more PU screenshots and content.
 
ETA - With your edit I see you have a better memory than I for this thread - are you keeping notes? :D

Hehe..no man. I remembered writing something about the subject before so I went here and found out the post. Then I saw it was actually a response to one of yours, so I edited it accordingly..:D

Dante is the monthly report today? That's what I am really looking forward to now. Hope for some more PU screenshots and content.

I think they did tell us its coming today, but most of the team was crunching on 0.9 in the weekend and had the day off yesterday (labor day in US). Thats also the reason we didn't get the latest 10FTC I think (together with some editing issues).

Hopefully they might have something up later today. Looking forward to more information about the Idris review myself, it seems that they are close to a content reveal on that (since it was fast-tracked for SQ42).
 
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