The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Thargon]

heh yeah. Sadly, when sources tell you what you can|cannot release, you have to respect that - or no more sources

Some people wonder why I have been 100% adamant and certain that this project was ; despite all the warning signs I've predicted and shown since July 2015. It's been a slow burn E.L.E. But not much longer now. One thing I can promise, is like with death, you never know what form it will take. But I know - and I can tell you that - it's amazing and will be like they detonated a nuclear bomb in the middle of the community.

Anyone who still has money in this, or who keeps giving them money, will only have themselves to blame.

Thanks for the heads up, but...

Aren't you opening yourself up for a lawsuit? If they fail they could blame it on you for scaremongering? I realise you may be telling the truth. Not that I think CiG would lawsuit you, cause they'd be spending backer money to do it. Nonetheless...

 

[Jezzah]

Thanks for the heads up, but...

Aren't you opening yourself up for a lawsuit? If they fail they could blame it on you for scaremongering? I realise you may be telling the truth. Not that I think CiG would lawsuit you, cause they'd be spending backer money to do it. Nonetheless...

I have no doubt at all that when this does go the way of the Dodo be it slowly in the form of a rubbish MVP or quickly in whatever form that may take, Mr Smart will feature very heavily in any "contrite apologies" that Crobbler makes after the fact.

 

[Asp Explorer]

That's just it though.

Without CIG really putting their heads down and grinding out the groundwork to put gameplay mechanics on top of - there's simply not even going to be an "MVP".

Years of handwaving and talking about "fidelity" and various roles for all the lovely jpeg space chariots to perform - but they have no way of implementing any of them. Everything so far has been a build up to an event, a disappointing show, ship sales, and more ship sales.

Their entire game is still at the concept stage

 

[Stigbob]

Thanks for the heads up, but...

Aren't you opening yourself up for a lawsuit? If they fail they could blame it on you for scaremongering? I realise you may be telling the truth. Not that I think CiG would lawsuit you, cause they'd be spending backer money to do it. Nonetheless...

After Chris Roberts spent eight hours writing a reply to the escapist that named Dr Smart twenty four times despite him not featuring in the story ?, no he's laughing because CIG flung poop at him first publicly via the media arguably triggering all the hate Derek's been receiving ever since.

If you pick a fight and lose, you don't automatically become the victim you are just an idiot who picked a foolish fight.

 

[Jezzah]

That's just it though.

Without CIG really putting their heads down and grinding out the groundwork to put gameplay mechanics on top of - there's simply not even going to be an "MVP".

Years of handwaving and talking about "fidelity" and various roles for all the lovely jpeg space chariots to perform - but they have no way of implementing any of them. Everything so far has been a build up to an event, a disappointing show, ship sales, and more ship sales.

Their entire game is still at the concept stage

Oh I completely agree. Any MVP he maybe releases as "the product" will be rubbish, disjointed, buggy nonsense with the caveat from crobbler that if people continue to support him it will magically get better over time. It'll be caned to an inch of its life by reviews and die slowly and painfully. BUT as far as crobbler will be concerned....he will have delivered and then blame all round him as to why it failed.

 

[Marak]

Aren't you opening yourself up for a lawsuit? If they fail they could blame it on you for scaremongering? I realise you may be telling the truth. Not that I think CiG would lawsuit you, cause they'd be spending backer money to do it. Nonetheless...

Seriously? If it only takes one guy shouting loudly to derail a $150m project then there has to be serious problems with that project. You can't blame the guy pointing out the problems.

I personally don't agree with everything Derek posts, and CIG are free to ignore his posts and produce the game they promised.

If they get so upset about DS's posts that they can't produce the game then that is on CIG, Not the guy pointing out the problems.

CIG could counter all DS's arguments by releasing quality content in a timely manner, but they choose to string this farce out for as long as they can, 'cos JPEGS and dreams = cash.

 

[Thargon]

Seriously? If it only takes one guy shouting loudly to derail a $150m project then there has to be serious problems with that project. You can't blame the guy pointing out the problems.

I personally don't agree with everything Derek posts, and CIG are free to ignore his posts and produce the game they promised.

If they get so upset about DS's posts that they can't produce the game then that is on CIG, Not the guy pointing out the problems.

CIG could counter all DS's arguments by releasing quality content in a timely manner, but they choose to string this farce out for as long as they can, 'cos JPEGS and dreams = cash.

Yeah I agree. Just wanted to look out for Mr. Smart. Don't want him to 'overextend' and get punished more for it.

Quality content in a timely manner. In the same sentence as CIG Seriously?!!! My lulzbuckets overflow.

 

[metatheurgist]

Thanks for the heads up, but...

Aren't you opening yourself up for a lawsuit? If they fail they could blame it on you for scaremongering? I realise you may be telling the truth. Not that I think CiG would lawsuit you, cause they'd be spending backer money to do it. Nonetheless...

Never heard of a case going to court for scaremongering. Libel yes, defamation, yes, scaremongering no.

 

[Thargon]

Never heard of a case going to court for scaremongering. Libel yes, defamation, yes, scaremongering no.

Fair enough, good point [knocked out]

 

[Soopyyy]

If someone says a project will fail, and then that project fails. That person told the truth, so how do you sue someone for speaking facts?

 

[SuperG]

If someone says a project will fail, and then that project fails. That person told the truth, so how do you sue someone for speaking facts?

It isn't just someone. It a fellow developer. With a hate campaine. All the dev in the world do not publicly citisize fellow devs. But hate campaine wil have its result. It does can have a major influence if people are going to back it or not. He is the front man of large hate campain against CiG by hate campaine community.

MMO in the league of near triple A a 5 to 10 years productions till release where 5 are the older and 10 are the future. There are MMO with a 7 year production time. Because PC got powerfull so games can become bigger and complexer. Much more is possible. But al that need to be produced. And interworkings of features need to be work out.

So I expect at least a 7 year production and with dev who want to do it well and have it done wenn it done menality. Which is doable wenn you got financial backing. It is how that production roles.

How ever this finacial backing is undermind by a hate campain. And people do get influence by it.

So it could be that this campaine can be be SC downfall.

But then again listen to so much hater I got the impression they canceld in 2016. But mij impression of SC that there is large progress in large underconstruction game.
I see the Reclaimer is in asset production.

My take on it. This huge game it make no sense to check progress every hour even not every day. Not every week. A month its on the edge. A 3 months. Unless you are a backer that want to contribute to it production 3 month check is enough up to 6 month.

My own situation I need to build a modern game rig as mine is 8 years old. With early quadcore in it.

2020 is date where you could expect large progres of a release , as that is a 7 year cycle of full production of big mmo that CiG has burn through.

It is normal dat you hear more from MMO wenn they are far into production as then its time to marketing is en for regular communnity feedback. These production have many years silently in production.
Where hate campain started early on after the got more then indy game of fundings.

That can't be good for marketing.

 

[Memnoch]

Wait for a free-play weekend, and if you can manage to even download it in time, see what you think then.

However, if you're in it for the space flight - I wouldn't bother - the flight model is FPS in space and is quite frankly, awful.

I may have get completely burned out with ED, sick to death of repetitive missions etc. but the one thing they got nailed from the very beginning was the fantastic flight model. That's just one of the things that has me concerned about SC. Reading comments from people stating that it flies best with a mouse and HOTAS just doesn't give the accuracy needed to fight effectively is alarming to me.

If you go out of your way to create such a vibrant looking world, with unparalleled detail in your ships, going so far as to model the linkages between ships systems etc., why would you then settle for some POS flight model that caters for the mouse?

The model used in ED allows you to "feel" the inertia, you move the stick and the ship moves, depending on its mass, and has some drift to it. It "feels" right. That's what I want from SC, not an FPS in a ship.

 

[Voivod]

CIG started in 2011 but you should count from 2013 because it fits the narrative of "But Moooooom!! We had no 350+ developers before that!!!11"
MMOs/AAAs are usually made in 5-7 years (even though many are made sooner, shut up, keep believing) so 2018-2020 would be normal to expect release.

HOWEVER.

CIG is making two AAAA++ games.
So double that development time.
No refunds allowed until 2027.

Congratulations, now you understand a bit more of Game Development.

 

[Memnoch]

I don't believe I had seen the following page before, showing the results of a poll on what SC players want as far as input device support. It looks like the majority are using mice, but slightly behind are the HOTAS users. But it does show a lot of folks interested in HOTAS support. Although I read another page where people wanted HOTAS support while on foot. At least offer it as an option but I couldn't see myself using that at all.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14346-Star-Citizen-HOTAS

Hopefully they have all that sorted now because if not we'll end up with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9sqUHaJTG4

 

[Almighty Bob]

heh yeah. Sadly, when sources tell you what you can|cannot release, you have to respect that - or no more sources

Some people wonder why I have been 100% adamant and certain that this project was ; despite all the warning signs I've predicted and shown since July 2015. It's been a slow burn E.L.E. But not much longer now. One thing I can promise, is like with death, you never know what form it will take. But I know - and I can tell you that - it's amazing and will be like they detonated a nuclear bomb in the middle of the community.

Anyone who still has money in this, or who keeps giving them money, will only have themselves to blame.

I can imagine why you can not be specific as to the form as it may reveal your source(s)
Could you be more specific about when IE in the next week, month or even this year?

 

[McGlashan]

So I expect at least a 7 year production and with dev who want to do it well and have it done wenn it done menality. Which is doable wenn you got financial backing. It is how that production roles.

They don't have "financial backing". They have an assumption that backers will keep shovelling money into the project as long as necessary, even if that's indefinitely. So far they've been right, although it's hardly a sustainable business model, and shouldn't take the place of actual project management as it has done in CIG's case. And they haven't earned the right to have a "it'll be done when it's done" attitude. That's reserved for developers who have demonstrated that they're capable of doing it right in the first place. For all the suggestions of Roberts being a perfectionist, they've delivered nothing but junk so far. Even their specially-prepared and rehearsed show demos are becoming less and less polished. So we all wait with baited breath for 3.0, the first evidence of real progress since 2015, even as the release date continues to recede into the distance and it promises to bear little relation to the Gamescom 2016 demo.

So it could be that this campaine can be be SC downfall.

No commentator would have the power to affect the development if it was fully funded, but of course Roberts has since walked back on the lie that he had enough money to finish both games. But it's always worth remembering that it was Roberts himself who triggered and empowered this particular commentator. And it doesn't become a "hate" campaign just because you don't happen to like it.

I see the Reclaimer is in asset production.

Oh, well, I guess everything's fine, then.

 

[MTBFritz]

...lots of hate....

Games taking 10 years to develop arent really the issue here. The issue is that in year 6 of production there pretty much is nothing that would justify a 150 million dollar investment. Pretty much everything is in the R+D stage still, features are incomplete, unbalanced, non-existant and the devs talk about stuff in concept stage which "should" be ironed out by now. If you really think that games under development resemble a complete mess for 80% of the time then suddenly at the end come together in record time then you need to get your head into game development a bit or listen to the people who have experience with such things.

SCs development has been abnormal since 2013, people gave them a years time to get their things straight and start to ramp up stuff but soon after that suspicions grew and the non-answers by CiG only enforced those feelings. It has been a decline ever since. CiGs actions will be CiGs downfall...nobodies else. Pretty much EVERY game on the market had to handle nay-sayers and doom-gloomers from the start. Game X stinks, it will fail, lol see how they struggle etc etc. Star Citizen isnt the exception here. Skeptics are pretty much the norm.

How CiG has handled skeptics is horrendous tho and the absolute exception. The amount of alienation and unprofessional behavior from Chris Roberts and his cronies is unbelievable and will (hopefully) be investigated in more detail once this abomination of a game collapses.

But mij impression of SC that there is large progress in large underconstruction game.
I see the Reclaimer is in asset production.

Then one of us is grossly mistaken eh? Time will tell and I hope sooner then later. The longer this insanity continues the more some people will hurt once its over. If one thing is certain is that the ball definitely is in CiGs court and has been since the start of the project. We have yet to see a move from them that actually scores in the gaming landscape. Its visions and ambitions have been unmatched. People expecting results after many years is only normal I think.

Looks like today will be lots of sunshine.

...sorry, dont know why I typed that...it has nothing to do with my previous statement at all. Apologies, old age maybe

My take on it. This huge game it make no sense to check progress every hour even not every day. Not every week. A month its on the edge

I completely agree with you. Things and progress take time. You might want to check back with the previous versions of this thread tho. We are discussing things that has been issues back in 2015 and STILL ARE ISSUES. Arguments in favor for Star Citizen have been changed continuously to keep up with the companies failures and promise breaks. We have people reporting back after an hiatus of 6 months or a year and they admit there is little/no progress. So your "solution" is to stay back and keep a distance but on the other hand, if you dont follow SC every day, every hour then you dont know anything and should spend more time with it according to the haters in the SC community....some logic. Personally I have been waiting for YEARS now for CiG to come through on their promises and expectations. Lots of lies and deceptions have been uncovered in the meantime. The balance is strongly against CiG at this point yet they dont seem to feel its necessary to deliver on their promises.

2020 will be the 8th year of development for SC. Remember the golden Chris Roberts statement that everything past 2014 will begin to get stale? Boy it absolutely REEKS already in here. 2020 will be a hazard zone with lots of hot air and an explosive mood.

Whatever CiG releases at the moment or continues to talk about then NOT deliver....cant be good for marketing.

You can try to shift the blame all day long. Fact is that an individual simply cannot be responsible for a projects downfall of this magnitude. I m sure some people will believe that individual but it shouldnt make an impact. According to all the hate-cookies on the subreddit this individual is a loser, liar, failure, know-nothing and much worse.....and they have FACTS for all those claims.

Or maybe this individual speaks stuff that resonates much stronger through SC followers then they care to admit and he does have an impact. At this point its not a hate campaign anymore but a cause. And it starts to have an impact because it reflects the worries of many.

Personally I can make up my own mind. The biggest factors for me so far have been CiGs lies and deception as well as the SC communities utter toxicity. Mr Smart only wrote what I wanted to know myself, he doesnt "think" for me and whenever I read anything of his writings I m perfectly capable to make up my own mind. The quickest and most simple way to shut him up will be to start releasing quality and making progress. Anytime soon....in 2020 by your count. I suggest you come back in 2020 and tell me I was wrong about it. I ll be here. And your post will be too

 

[Thargon]

On that note, let's make some predictions. Let's hope the biggest Kickstarter failure project of all time doesn't bring down Kickstarter with it when it fails.

I reckon, things will start to fall apart pretty rapidly in a year or two. When the 3.0 Jesus patch never materialises, and reality kicks in. Why no process CIG after another year of development? Oh the usual - volumetric fog took longer to implement that originally planned! [money] Please shut up and take my money!!! [money]

So wait until July 2018 for the fireworks. That's my prediction. Could be wrong, but let's revisit in about a years time and see

 

[Stigbob]

Check this link to see if you made r/dereksmarts roll of honor. They seem particularly annoyed with MTBFritz.

Obviously it's crazy town so it's NSFW.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart...ev_its_amazing_and_will_be_like_they/di54rnd/

 

[Slythe]

...So wait until July 2018 for the fireworks. That's my prediction. Could be wrong, but let's revisit in about a years time and see

You're an optimist, I'd be quite surprised if they make it to January 2018 unless they can find a backer willing to make a large investment. The pool of cash available from the general public seems to have been drained almost dry.