Newcomer / Intro What are you up to?

[aRJay]

Would you recommend the iCourier or Chieftain for a CZ? I had thought of using my Courier so I’m not a ‘big fish’ but the Chieftain has more modules to go defensive with and the shields come back pretty quickly, plus when they are down it has a better hull to keep me going whilst looking to get away.

I probably just need to go and have a look as you say....and swallow some rebuys when the time comes[knocked out]

I would pick the Chieftain from those two, but I am biased because a) I like the Chieftain and b) I don't have access to the iCourier.

The last CZ I was fighting in I was alternating between my all laser FdL and the Krait II and Challenger that I was evaluating, the Challenger annoyed me as I could rarely get all the guns to bare at the same time but it worked the Krait was better thanks to the SLF, both had mixed cannon & laser weapons the Fdl was still champion probably helped by me having much more experience in it and infinite ammo, though the cost of a rebuy is always on my mind when the shields go down, still it is less than 10 million (just).

Much as I like the Chieftain it is possibly a little fragile for CZs but the ease at pointing the guns on the target is great.

 

[Chris Simon]

Would you recommend the iCourier or Chieftain for a CZ? I had thought of using my Courier so I’m not a ‘big fish’ but the Chieftain has more modules to go defensive with and the shields come back pretty quickly, plus when they are down it has a better hull to keep me going whilst looking to get away.

I probably just need to go and have a look as you say....and swallow some rebuys when the time comes[knocked out]

I would pick the Chieftain from those two, but I am biased because a) I like the Chieftain and b) I don't have access to the iCourier.

The last CZ I was fighting in I was alternating between my all laser FdL and the Krait II and Challenger that I was evaluating, the Challenger annoyed me as I could rarely get all the guns to bare at the same time but it worked the Krait was better thanks to the SLF, both had mixed cannon & laser weapons the Fdl was still champion probably helped by me having much more experience in it and infinite ammo, though the cost of a rebuy is always on my mind when the shields go down, still it is less than 10 million (just).

Much as I like the Chieftain it is possibly a little fragile for CZs but the ease at pointing the guns on the target is great.

As a counter-argument, I always felt more secure in iCourier than in anything else. iCourier lacks firepower, but she's small, quick and inconspicuous. And great at being everywhere at once and steal all the kills.
Anything bigger than that feels unsecure and vulnerable in CZ. At least to me. And especially big hulking things with weak shields.

(Just to be clear, here, I really like the Chieftain (and the likes) as well. Quite a lot, in fact. Just not in CZ)

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yesterday I acquired myself an Asp Explorer, which I named Discovery since I plan to use it for exploration. I immediately A rated the FSD and I installed the Advanced System Discovery sensor in preparation for a run into the black. These purchases did a significant hit to my bank balance, so I am going to do some cargo runs in and around Sol to continue grinding my Federation Rank and make some cash while doing so. The Asp has much more cargo space than my Viper Mk VI did, so I should be able make back credits quickly. Then I will properly outfit the Discovery for exploration and head out into the unknown.

Excellent! Have fun in your Asp and take your time, enjoy the sites...don't doze off during a jump and fly into a star o7

 

[Chris Simon]

Excellent! Have fun in your Asp and take your time, enjoy the sites...don't doze off during a jump and fly into a star o7

That's what the alarm is for.

We desperately need a COVAS with strong German accent. FEUERALARM! FEUERALARM!

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

That's what the alarm is for.

We desperately need a COVAS with strong German accent. FEUERALARM! FEUERALARM!

LMAO!!!

 

[Shir]

Spent an afternoon outfitting and mildly engineering an Imperial Courier. I reckon might as well board the Gnosis since its a one time thing, and use a cheap, disposable but capable ship for that. Plus this ship can run,,, Never did any Thargoid combat, so going just for the ride. Got my Asp explorer parked on the nearest detention center and flying towards the Gnosis tonight

 

[Speedcuffs]

Baiting people and getting ganked in my unarmed Python while doing dodgy tourism runs.
Loving it.

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

I got Palin to level 5 so now I can remote workshop G5 thrusters, And then I see the requirements in mats for both dirty and clean and wonder how in the name of the God of Thargoidia am I ever going to get them.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I got Palin to level 5 so now I can remote workshop G5 thrusters, And then I see the requirements in mats for both dirty and clean and wonder how in the name of the God of Thargoidia am I ever going to get them.

Well I can cut your workload in half right off the bat, by reminding you how useless clean drives are.


Pharmaceutical isolators are found mainly in HGE USS.
That's the hardest one for dirty drives, and of the HGEs one of the easiest to find in my experience.
(Independent systems in outbreak)

Large combat ships like Corvettes and Anacondas have been dropping them lately too.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Just flown out to my first Guardian site, further than I thought it would be, and busy collecting materials. Next will have to figure out the puzzle bit. Will save that for tomorrow

 

[Rock Hunter]

I got Palin to level 5 so now I can remote workshop G5 thrusters, And then I see the requirements in mats for both dirty and clean and wonder how in the name of the God of Thargoidia am I ever going to get them.

Oh dear, yes I almost forgot how much despair I could feel in supercruise in the search for Pharmaceutical Isolators. My luck with RNG appears to be very much rock bottom.

Then, after much time, many credits, a great amount of help on the forums and some serious material gathering I finally had what I needed for a big ‘ole beefy Corvette. Now I just destroy everything whilst employing very little skill and send out my collector limpets to pick up the ****-tonne of Chemical Processors, Distilleries and Manipulators that come from big ships and use the material trader to get those pesky Isolators.

All of which I recognise is of little help nor comfort to you just yet, and in fairness you may find USS’s less of a troublesome mechanic than I seem to, but when the time or opportunity comes your way....don’t overlook it. My use of the materials trader as a result of what I can kill allows me to get on with things I really enjoy in the game. It’s odd though, I don’t find wombling around in my SRV, essentially doing the same thing, as frustrating as dropping in one USS’s with my fingers crossed.

G5 Dirty drives are still worth it though. I haven’t done any specific testing but I’d agree the benefits of DD5’s seem to come with a greater benefits to disadvantages ratio than clean drives. For that reason alone, my Corvette was worth the energy expended on buying it.










*Combat, because I know you’re dabbling, is still far more fun (IMO) in a smaller ship than in a big Murder-Hoover (TM recognised)

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

Well I can cut your workload in half right off the bat, by reminding you how useless clean drives are.


Pharmaceutical isolators are found mainly in HGE USS.
That's the hardest one for dirty drives, and of the HGEs one of the easiest to find in my experience.
(Independent systems in outbreak)

Large combat ships like Corvettes and Anacondas have been dropping them lately too.

Hmmm. I'm pondering putting my clean G3s into storage and buying a new set for some dirtiness. Are clean drives really just a waste of time and materials pursuing then? Under what circumstances are clean better than dirty?

To get Palin to level 5 access, I did shielded (?) 5As but fell short of mats to complete the G5 mod. Most if the mats I had anyway so it was a relatively cheap upgrade. However, I'm now wondering whether to keep them as is - and wondering what use they could be - or stripping the mod to make way for that dirty upgrade.

 

[aRJay]

Hmmm. I'm pondering putting my clean G3s into storage and buying a new set for some dirtiness. Are clean drives really just a waste of time and materials pursuing then? Under what circumstances are clean better than dirty?

To get Palin to level 5 access, I did shielded (?) 5As but fell short of mats to complete the G5 mod. Most if the mats I had anyway so it was a relatively cheap upgrade. However, I'm now wondering whether to keep them as is - and wondering what use they could be - or stripping the mod to make way for that dirty upgrade.

Clean drives are fine just not as extremely quick as dirty drives, so if you aren't building a racing machine or an ultimate fighter they alright. The other time they are better is when you have a new ship that you want to put better drives on and are missing the mats for the DDs.

They might come in if you want to build an armoured ship though 5Bs would have been a better start.

For full access to an engineer and his blueprints you don't need to work on the G5 mod it just has to be unlocked which usually happens when you have 3/4s finished the G4 mod.

 

[Ashnak]

Clean drives are slower, use less power and generate less heat than dirty drives. So, depending on your overall goals for your ship, chose one or the other (or none). I haven't yet found a reason for not going to grade 5 in either case, though.

My combat and racing builds usually get dirty, while my exploration and smuggling builds get clean (together with low emissions power plants). In exploration, the lower heat helps with scooping, while for smuggling (that includes wanted passenger missions), the lower heat means I can leisurely cruise into the station in silent running.

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

Clean drives are slower, use less power and generate less heat than dirty drives. So, depending on your overall goals for your ship, chose one or the other (or none). I haven't yet found a reason for not going to grade 5 in either case, though.

My combat and racing builds usually get dirty, while my exploration and smuggling builds get clean (together with low emissions power plants). In exploration, the lower heat helps with scooping, while for smuggling (that includes wanted passenger missions), the lower heat means I can leisurely cruise into the station in silent running.

I was thinking along similar lines so I suppose I must be getting something right! I think I'll finish the clean ones on my Asp and dirty up my Cobra just for lulz and my Vulture which is a work in progress combat machine. This latter is something for the future though.

I'm not sure which way to go - if any - for my credit making mission/hauling T6. I want money ("that's... what I want... the best things in life are free, but you can give them to the birds and bees - I want money!" - showing my age again and not sure if anyone remembers that song!)

 

[Spaceman Si]

. I want money ("that's... what I want... the best things in life are free, but you can give them to the birds and bees - I want money!" - showing my age again and not sure if anyone remembers that song!)

Flying Lizard

Bought that on ye-olde 45rpm vinyl...

 

[Para Handy]

Flying Lizard

Bought that on ye-olde 45rpm vinyl...

Brits of my vintage will more likely associate it with the "fab four" although veteran Americans (and some eclectic Brits) will remember the original.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Clean drives are slower, use less power and generate less heat than dirty drives. So, depending on your overall goals for your ship, chose one or the other (or none). I haven't yet found a reason for not going to grade 5 in either case, though.

My combat and racing builds usually get dirty, while my exploration and smuggling builds get clean (together with low emissions power plants). In exploration, the lower heat helps with scooping, while for smuggling (that includes wanted passenger missions), the lower heat means I can leisurely cruise into the station in silent running.

No, clean drives have 1/3 greater power penalty; +12% vs +16%.
Dirty drives don't hurt scooping in themsleves.
Small OC powerplants make scooping VERY not.
The thermal load of the powerplant is way more important.
That 4% can be enough to require an OC PP.
My DBX with armored PP (read: low thermal load) and G5 dirty drives can crash into a star and barely overheat.

If high heat combat builds like a prismatic Vulture with an OC powerplant, plasmas and SCBs can run G5 dirty drives, of course exploration builds can use dirty drives too.

Silent running is a valid use, as are a few really hot running builds.
But exploration is a silly one.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

A little less than a month ago I ran some tests comparing Clean Drive Tuning (CD) and Dirty Drive Tuning (DD) as I was engineering my Asp Explorer for exploration and trying to lower the heat signature so I could fuel scoop for longer. It occurred to me that the extra power draw of CD could directly counteract the benefits of the reduced thermal load; which lead to my testing.

TL/DR: CD as a mod only has advantages in silent running and even then it doesn't significantly outperform standard drives in duration. The only reason it is better for silent running builds is because it has an optimal multiplier increase in addition to the similar duration in SR as Standard drives.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/358008-PSA-Clean-Drive-Tuning-is-NOT-for-Explorers

TL/DR: Clean Drives are useful for silent running, but only due to their increase to the optimal multiplier. Clean drives do not perform significantly better than standard drives in overall silent running time, but both clean and standard drives far outperform dirty drives. However, if you are not planning on spending lots of time in silent running there is no reason to choose clean drive tuning.

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I performed some experiments yesterday to see what the benefits of using Clean Drive Tuning over Dirty Drive Tuning, and to my surprise there was no significant difference in thermal load. The reduction of thermal load is supposed to be the selling point of Clean Drives which is not the case with my results.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/354115-Clean-Drive-Tuning-is-Pointless

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I'm gonna necro this because I want to change my tune. After Bob Lighthouse made his argument, and Qohen waxed poetic about dirty drives, I tried them out and discovered they don't make nearly as much of a difference as I feared.

Bob is correct about them not affecting heat during scooping, and I flew around a 9.77 G world with grade 5 dirty drives and had no heat problems at all. I'm now firmly in the dirty drives camp, and my Asp makes nearly 500 m/s on boost as a result!

Nothing like trying it for yourself.