I agree with you. It’s really commanders themselves that are the problem. And that is precisely why they must be destroyed.
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What do you think about notoriety?
- Thread starter johnliem
- Start date
I agree with you. It’s really commanders themselves that are the problem. And that is precisely why they must be destroyed.
You can't pay fines or bounties if you have even level 1 notoriety...
Well, I have played Mortal Combat a couple of times but today I got to see the brain of a sheep and a human & I didn't enjoy it...
What's notoriety?
But seriously, just as most people in the world live their lives without even spending their lives in prison, many people spend their entire gaming experience in ED without getting any notoriety, myself for instance. If you are partaking in activities where notoriety is possible then you have to accept it will sometimes apply to you, this is a choice you make, different paths, different results, I choose not to do stuff where I can get notoriety even accidentally.
Not really a fact, more your opinion, isn't it?
What has been your experience of the C&P system when playing as a criminal?
The response I gave was to a post that related to fines & bounties, not notoriety.
Your solution to bad gameplay is to just avoid that part of the game? That makes no sense at all.
(I'm not agreeing with the op by the way. Triggerdiscipline and all that. But your arguement is absolute hogwash.)
a) It's your opinion that it's bad game play.
b) It's your choice to engage in that game play
and
c) No I don't avoid it, it's part of the game that has never interested me. If I was avoiding it then I would have to want to take part in but wasn't because it was poorly designed. if I did make the choice to take part in it then I would accept it as it is and not try to change it except for obvious bugs.
The fact is it's rarely bad game play that's the problem, many other players indulge in the same game play you take part in but have no issues with it, it's just that it's not designed exactly the way you want it to be, therefore to you it's bad. Now the problem is every change made to the game, even if in response to your issue, would cause issues with other players, it would then become bad game play in their opinion. FDEV shouldn't attempt to micro-adjust the game to try and suit every player, there are some players who simply will never get the game play they want from ED because it's ED and not (insert other different game here). The number of times I have seen players demand a certain feature be added because EVE does it is remarkable, so why aren't they playing EVE?
FDEV have designed a game they want, it is never going to fully satisfy everyone, no game will without going down the rabbit hole of oblivion,but it's important that FDEV continue designing the game they want because if they stop designing the game they want and start designing the game you want then I expect they wouldn't do that for very long before losing direction and giving up.
Your opinion is noted and dismissed.
What Commander Varonica said makes a lot of sense, just not to you. Do you realise that there are a significant number of players who have never destroyed another ship (NPC or otherwise), for them notoriety, in fact any C&P is totally irrelevant because it will never impact them due to what they do in the game. And for me, I have never killed another player (I refuse to be THEIR game content) and whilst I am rated Deadly in Combat - soon to be Elite I hope - I have probably half a dozen 'NPC Murders' against my name. How the hell have I managed that you ask - simple really. I make sure of my target before I start shooting by scanning (then dependent on the ship, double scan with the KWS), I make sure I have a clear lane to the target and watch the scanner to make lessen the likelihood of some NPC flying into my weapon stream. I even go so far to add 'Smart Rounds' to my MC's, thus ensuring that no friendlies will take damage if the worst happens. And if I do screw up, and accidently hit a friendly ship (stuff happens in a game no matter how careful you are), I immediately STOP FIRING. I suspect too many just continue to hold the trigger down when that pesky Security Force's ship flies between you and your quarry don't think and don't release the trigger, thinking all the damage has already been done.
So no, you are wrong, players like Commander Varonica and myself aren't avoiding parts of the game, we just know how to play the game to lessen any problems that may arise.
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indeed.... this rings true with me as well.... Honestly i cant really comment with authority if it works perfectly because like above, i role play myself, if i was a pilot in the 33rd century ... (kind of... in truth if i was in that universe i would have made my billions years ago mining and ferrying cow manure and a few tourists and now be living on some luxurious beach resort for the rest of my life)... ... but i too try to always make the "moral" choices in the game.
its an imperfect universe of course so sometimes the line is a little blurred but i have never gained notoriety either afaik and my crimes are all low level skimmer ones.
The point of notoriety is really important however. For so long there was zero consequences for being a "baddie"... and that is not great imo, (and hell it would not be great for me either even if i wanted to be a baddie!. because consequences should be part of that gameplay). IF i murder someone i want there to be people hunting me.
hell the flip side is also true . as somewhat of a goodie 2 shoes it is a bit silly that pirate bases will still welcome me with open arms. I am pretty sure in the judge dread universe the criminal organisations there would not welcome Dread into their domain - even on his day off!!!.
Notoriety *is* "that part of the game." If you want to avoid "that part of the game," then yes the solution is to avoid that part of the game. The existence of notoriety doesn't wall you off from any part of what Elite has to offer. Notoriety is part of what Elite has to offer. You don't have to participate in it or anything else, but it's there for you if you want.
What I think about notoriety: "wanted" and "notorious" should be restored to "offender" and "fugitive".
As a concept, Notoriety etc. is fine. But the problem is that Notoriety isn't incentivised.
At the crux of it, C&P inconveniences (i.e 'punishes') "accidental criminals" the most, because they're unprepared for the consequnces of even a minor bounty. Conversely, career criminals are least affected, because they know exactly how to manage their bounty and notoriety (either keeping clean despite all circumstances, or embracing it and doing crime in places you don't care about, and ensuring you'll never respawn in an area where you're forced to pay off the bounty).
I posted in more detail about it here, but the abridged version of what needs to change.
- 0-notoriety bounties can be paid off anywhere, not just IF. This means the odd-stray-shot commander doesn't get too heavily taxed when it happens.
- Gate criminal activities behind Notoriety. Your average law-abiding citizen shouldn't be able to just rock up to the public mission board and find criminal activities.
- Notoriety acts like rep, and enhances credit rewards and the like, and maybe even provides a "Bounties for cops" facility, where you can "bounty hunt" Authorities/Military/ATRs. Enhance credit rewards.
- Don't make notoriety a time-based decay, make it an active activity, and scale it wildly between the levels. To ballpark some figures, Notoriety 1 should be able to be cleared almost immediately, but Notoriety 5, you're looking for up to a week, and notoriety 10, up to a month. Note most people wouldn't want to lose Notoriety under such a system, due to the incentives behind it. Such a system might be "You need to do X missions to clear your name up, but you can only do 1 a day" as a trivial example.
- Because Criminal activity has bigger rewards, we can then ramp-up the punishment. Notoriety 1 wouldn't be dissimilar to what we have now, but maybe Notoriety 10 denies access to any facility not owned by a faction you're allied[1] or owned by an Anarchy faction, makes most Authority responses virtually instantaneous etc..
[1] Because Criminal activity doesn't necessitate criminal actor. You may be an Imperial targeting Federal authorities.
A lot of the suggestions above are just fluff implementation detail though. It really still comes down:
- Good criminals know how to manage their criminality and minimise the consequences; while
- Accidental criminals don't, and (arguably) suffer more inconvenience.
What needs to happen is a system where
- Good criminals embrace their criminality and wear it like a badge of pride (already happens to some degree), and cleaning your name would create more problems than it would fix, for a criminal; and
- Accidental criminals can clear their name easily.... where good criminals wouldn't want to.
At the crux of it, C&P inconveniences (i.e 'punishes') "accidental criminals" the most, because they're unprepared for the consequnces of even a minor bounty. Conversely, career criminals are least affected, because they know exactly how to manage their bounty and notoriety (either keeping clean despite all circumstances, or embracing it and doing crime in places you don't care about, and ensuring you'll never respawn in an area where you're forced to pay off the bounty).
I posted in more detail about it here, but the abridged version of what needs to change.
- 0-notoriety bounties can be paid off anywhere, not just IF. This means the odd-stray-shot commander doesn't get too heavily taxed when it happens.
- Gate criminal activities behind Notoriety. Your average law-abiding citizen shouldn't be able to just rock up to the public mission board and find criminal activities.
- Notoriety acts like rep, and enhances credit rewards and the like, and maybe even provides a "Bounties for cops" facility, where you can "bounty hunt" Authorities/Military/ATRs. Enhance credit rewards.
- Don't make notoriety a time-based decay, make it an active activity, and scale it wildly between the levels. To ballpark some figures, Notoriety 1 should be able to be cleared almost immediately, but Notoriety 5, you're looking for up to a week, and notoriety 10, up to a month. Note most people wouldn't want to lose Notoriety under such a system, due to the incentives behind it. Such a system might be "You need to do X missions to clear your name up, but you can only do 1 a day" as a trivial example.
- Because Criminal activity has bigger rewards, we can then ramp-up the punishment. Notoriety 1 wouldn't be dissimilar to what we have now, but maybe Notoriety 10 denies access to any facility not owned by a faction you're allied[1] or owned by an Anarchy faction, makes most Authority responses virtually instantaneous etc..
[1] Because Criminal activity doesn't necessitate criminal actor. You may be an Imperial targeting Federal authorities.
A lot of the suggestions above are just fluff implementation detail though. It really still comes down:
- Good criminals know how to manage their criminality and minimise the consequences; while
- Accidental criminals don't, and (arguably) suffer more inconvenience.
What needs to happen is a system where
- Good criminals embrace their criminality and wear it like a badge of pride (already happens to some degree), and cleaning your name would create more problems than it would fix, for a criminal; and
- Accidental criminals can clear their name easily.... where good criminals wouldn't want to.
Very well said and thought out - repped.
The main problem with the system is there is no real penalty. Credits are easy to come by, so increased rebuy cost, paying extra insurance for the victims doesn't really hurt. The only thing I can come up with as a decent penalty is TIME. Not talking about sitting in some prison, I suspect too many do that whilst AFK anyway to be any real determent. What I would like to see is if a player has a Notoriety of 7 or above, when they get killed (and yes eventually they will get killed), the rebuy screen has a few less options for them. They can only buy back the stock equivalent of their ship, all their higher grade modules are gone, all their engineered modules are gone (including any grandfathered modules, they are GONE). The reasoning is since most of these types of players have meta engineered ships it will take them some time to re-engineer them again - and making them grind again I think is a suitable punishment.
Sure but my point stands, you can't always pay fines and bounties.
You become notorious for bad trigger control.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Personally, I have none, and at most have ever had 1.
What did I do? I painted some idiot NPC with Plasma, at a rather extreme range, because my target managed to evade, using that uniquely NPC evasion method of coming to a full and immediate stop for a fraction of a second before changing directions. Neat trick no human can do.
So what did I do? I pulled into my local IF station, parked and went to bed.
Were it not for the matchmaking server farting, I'd have paid my fine in the morning, logged out and gone to work, but nooo... had to come home, log back in and wait an entire 10 minutes before paying off my fine.