Why Frontier are wrong to keep nerfing high credit earning methods.

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So to sum up, should players be instant billionaires, NO, clearly not. But should players be able to sensibly earn the credits required to buy and build the ships in game, YES and the recent gold rushes prove the game does not currently allow them to do this.

Just food for thought.

CMRD Shin_Akuma007

Here's the rub, with the payouts as they are now, especially once you get good rep with a faction, you can easily become a billionair without using broken mechanics.

It seems to come down to how fast is acceptable, and there are at least a group that seems to constantly wants it to be faster, expecting to be in a top tier ship in around 20 hours.
 
Here's the rub, with the payouts as they are now, especially once you get good rep with a faction, you can easily become a billionair without using broken mechanics.

It seems to come down to how fast is acceptable, and there are at least a group that seems to constantly wants it to be faster, expecting to be in a top tier ship in around 20 hours.

It is not about building ships though. It is about rebuys on losing big ships too fast.
 
Realistically most of us just want to have some buffer money for events such as outfitting and Thargoids.

I am not a greedy man. I just want enough to live on and I love to play this game for hours at a time.

but not months to get one part for my ship.
 
Yeah, lots of players openly admitting they just play ED for end game ships and nothing else.

I don't think there's lesson you looked for.

No, it is about credits and human nature wanting something big and bad and skipping path to it.

When you have a spike in players, logging in exclusively to jump on the skimmer gold rush... and vanish again after it gets nerfed... you really have to question what it is that drives those numbers of players up and why. Cannot afford to not take notice, and find out exactly why players came in droves and did it... There's a good message in there if FDEV intend to take notice. Perhaps if mission payouts weren't so mc scrooge, it'll encourage more in. THEN they'd have to decide what is done after the ships are purchased. I always said give ships unique abilities.. make them unique, so it adds viability through the range, not just size of capacitor, or number of ever increasing gun size... then capping at.. well a cap... and not going further than that.

We have to admit it. Ships are character classes. Engineers are enchanters, and NPC's are various mobs. All we need are dungeons, and synergy between character classes.

;)
 
Yeah, lots of players openly admitting they just play ED for end game ships and nothing else.

I don't think there's lesson you looked for.



No, it is about credits and human nature wanting something big and bad and skipping path to it.



There's a whole lot of assumptions in this and I wont even go into how those assumptions are made in a very negative , judgemental way.


Not everyone that uses these jump right to a conda or vette. Some just like seeing thier cred stash grows and other just like to have a nice hefty amount so they can experiment and not have to worry about OMG I don't have enough to rebuy.....

Myself I plan on having every ship in my fleet and my biggest ship right now is the python, and I have been here on and off since betas, and I must admit these gold rushes are very enjoyable to me.

It's too bad some people feel like they must look down their noses at others from their high and might pedestal to elevate their own self worth.
 
When you have a spike in players, logging in exclusively to jump on the skimmer gold rush... and vanish again after it gets nerfed... you really have to question what it is that drives those numbers of players up and why.

I actually asked people around and they said they aren't interested in game except for big three ships.

Cannot afford to not take notice, and find out exactly why players came in droves and did it...

It is already found out.

There's a good message in there if FDEV intend to take notice.

There is. It has actually zero to do with actual game but way people approach games these days, which goes against idea of ED.

Perhaps if mission payouts weren't so mc scrooge, it'll encourage more in.

This argument doesn't hold any water. Missions pay well. They don't pay well to trash your engineered Anaconda three times an evening. Thus the breaks. It won't ever happen. And there won't be CQC with existing ships. That ship has sailed.

THEN they'd have to decide what is done after the ships are purchased. I always said give ships unique abilities.. make them unique, so it adds viability through the range, not just size of capacitor, or number of ever increasing gun size... then capping at.. well a cap... and not going further than that.

How this is anything to do with people getting billions in one weekend?

We have to admit it. Ships are character classes. Engineers are enchanters, and NPC's are various mobs. All we need are dungeons, and synergy between character classes.

;)

No, this is nothing to do with MMORPG tropes or how you approach them. That's why there are other games out there.
 
What made me chuckle was the player peak during the skimmer 'hack'. There's a lesson in there somewhere.
Which player peak?

When you have a spike in players, logging in exclusively to jump on the skimmer gold rush... and vanish again after it gets nerfed... you really have to question what it is that drives those numbers of players up and why. Cannot afford to not take notice, and find out exactly why players came in droves and did it... There's a good message in there if FDEV intend to take notice. Perhaps if mission payouts weren't so mc scrooge, it'll encourage more in. THEN they'd have to decide what is done after the ships are purchased. I always said give ships unique abilities.. make them unique, so it adds viability through the range, not just size of capacitor, or number of ever increasing gun size... then capping at.. well a cap... and not going further than that.

We have to admit it. Ships are character classes. Engineers are enchanters, and NPC's are various mobs. All we need are dungeons, and synergy between character classes.

;)

I just checked steam charts and it doesn't look like there was a player peak on the 3th or 4th.
 
Let me preface this with: Nothing I am About to Say is Personal

The very first thing I have to ask when I hear "[...] but when I hear people getting 3 billion and Admiral & Duke from no rank in 3 days. That is just absurd." is: Why? Because you couldn't?

Let's think and talk about this. It doesn't affect your standings, your rankings, or what you can or cannot do in any way. It doesn't effect how you play at all if someone does manage to do this. I don't think it should be impossible to pull off a meteoric rise through the ranks like this. I don't think it should be easy or even all that exciting to do either. It should be an honest-to-goodness, 24-hours a day, non-stop grind that makes EVE look pale in comparison if someone really wants to do this. By the time they're done they should be hating life, perhaps in need of a new set of controls, and a week long break from Elite.

I liken this to the time I wanted to raise a very large sum of cash to purchase a very expensive boat, and did so by working three jobs, seven days a week, 16 hours a day, plus putting in some extra time during what little time off I did have to complete some side projects for extra-extra-extra-extra money. Six months of this, and I was utterly exhausted, but I'd raised the funds I needed to buy what I wanted, bid a very fond farewell to job #2 and job #3, and found myself too exhausted to actually enjoy the fruit of my labors for a couple weeks - which was OK because there were delivery times and a few other special arrangements to be made, so I made use of my downtime.

I hated every minute of it, but kept my eye on the target and pushed through. In the end, my efforts were rewarded.

I don't see any problem with being able to do the same here - but it shouldn't be through board-flipping, mode-hopping and every shortcut method available. It should be work, hard work - something only the most dedicated would be willing to put in, and that dedication should be rewarded.

The "Gold Rush" is a separate matter entirely... these are actually good things, if they're regulated properly, and can be a great opportunity to lure people out of comfort zones and get them involved in other aspects of Elite they might not otherwise engage in without the promise of some brass ring.

The trick comes in finding just the right balance - and that is something that would likely take a fair bit of trial and error. All the developers and QA-staff in the world are never going to be able to look at something from all the angles that a player base will. They may think they have something that's air-tight and just right, only to discover, an hour after release, that we've found some shortcut or means of circumventing their intentions, because we don't go to the staff meetings, we don't participate in the internal discussions - we see things very differently and we look at things in ways they may not ever think to do, and all that effort goes to waste.

Then they try to "fix" it, and the player base reacts like a frog dropped into boiling water.

Dont worry I dont take anything personally especially from the internet.

If someone wants to do a Grind Fest 24hrs a day for 3 days thats fine. I agree they should be hating life after, but rewarded for their efforts. My last 2 Fed ranks I played for I think like 10 hrs straight grinding them out and I was so toast I didnt even think about Imp ranks for about 3 months. I'm mainly talking about some post I've seen on the forums here and other ones I'm on. Some of these guys with the Skimmer exploit Got the 3 bil and Admiral & Duke (Both) from zero playing casually 3-4 hrs a day over the weekend starting on Friday.

That is what I think is absurd (meaning people saying it isnt a exploit) I play the game at my own pace. With 3.0 I've found a spot doing 3-4 Wing cargo missions with close one hop systems making decent money and I pick up small other data packages and cash them in for Rank towards Duke. The new reward system makes it pretty easy not completely stick your face to the grind wheel and get increasing rank pretty quickly.
 
When you have a spike in players, logging in exclusively to jump on the skimmer gold rush... and vanish again after it gets nerfed... you really have to question what it is that drives those numbers of players up and why.

I see folk are questioning your "spike".

But assuming there is a spike, and let's just ignore that any "spike" would have coincided with the release of 3.0.

There's a gold rush every few months, always has been and likely always will be.

If it was gold rush 100% of the time all day every day it would not be a gold rush.
 
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The data show more people play when the gold rush was in full swing. Develop whatever psychological profile you want about the motivations of the participants, but the bottom line is the game is a BUSINESS. Hours played translates into microtransactions, continuing game interest for future monetized offerings.

Touting the goldrush as a sploit, or something for win-button players is MISSING THE POINT!

FDEV broke the game and reduced the number of active players.

They can learn from this and build in gold rush events, or simply be satisfied with pre-gold rush numbers.

If I was the CFO at FDEV, I would be calling people into my office YESTERDAY and asking are you doing? We had a 20% boost in active players in 48 hours and you killed it? Do you realize how many additional microtransactions we pulled in that period with new purchased ship kits, paint jobs, commander customization, etc. (barring Paypal lol).

You self-denial puritans need to go get real jobs, earn real money and understand this is a BUSINESS. Maybe not though. Maybe it's a niche indy hobby for a math guy.

FDEVs response was very weird IMO.

I see folk are questioning your "spike".

But assuming there is a spike, and let's just ignore that any "spike" would have coincided with the release of 3.0.

There's a gold rush every few months, always has been and likely always will be.

If it was gold rush 100% of the time all day every day it would not be a gold rush.

Dude, look at the Steam data I posted. The spike coincides with the goldrush, not the 3.0 release.
 
I see folk are questioning your "spike".

But assuming there is a spike, and let's just ignore that any "spike" would have coincided with the release of 3.0.

There's a gold rush every few months, always has been and likely always will be.

If it was gold rush 100% of the time all day every day it would not be a gold rush.

The spike begins on the 27th/28th which was 3.0 release. The Skimmer exploit became famous on the 3th of March. Just saying...

Dude, look at the Steam data I posted. The spike coincides with the goldrush, not the 3.0 release.

No, it doesn't. Unless you are saying that more people play on the weekends. Yes, that's true. For every weekend of the year. #Still not a spike
 
I don't think it's very nice calling Frontier: self-denial puritans who need to go get real jobs, earn real money and understand this is a BUSINESS.
 
Reduction in active players are people that try to think ED is something it is not. They get bored and move on. I know what type of game ED is and so do others. That is why we have been playing the game for so long. Its the main reason I bought it.
 
Exploit is abusing game mechanics by forcing the game to do something or act in a way that it would not normally through normal play.

Not quite. An exploit is taking advantage of unintended gameplay for your own gain. You're not necessarily having to force anything.

Good making method is the game working as the devs designed it, which may not be the way they intended it, but that's their problem and why they have PAID QA Testers.

Not at all. Good money making methods can be the result of intended or unintended gameplay. You can't just label it as 'their problem' and because it is their problem it's ok and legit to do it. That's not correct.

Now we've got that out the way let’s looks at some facts.
Do you mean opinions ?


Unlike games like Grand Theft Auto and many others, the base currency cannot be bought with real world cash. So players earning large amount of credits is not costing Frontier additional sales.

Irrelevant. What players earn does affect the organic flow of the game in several ways and that's a good enough reason for Frontier to stem the bleeding. Elite: Dangerous is not pay to win and if it ever hints at becoming that way, I'm first out of the door.
Besides, players who only see credits when they play, in my opinion, don't understand the concept of Elite Dangerous.

I would be interested to see as a result of the weekend Gold Rush, how many players got there first Anaconda or Python, and then went on to buy ship kits and paint packs. I'd say it's a fair assumption that this weekend’s Gold Rush made money for Frontier.

Again, your missing the point and seemingly just looking for reasons for justify get rich quick exploits. If Frontier were concerned about how many people bought paints and kits over how their game is played, they could just make all the ships free or all the mission rewards in the millions. This has nothing to do with the Frontier Store.


Some may argue that by allowing players to afford end game ships will cause them to lose interest in the game.
Yes some may argue that and for some that is the case. I know a player in my Discord, for example, who tells me he regrets progressing too quickly in the game. I can fully understand why and I guarantee he isn't alone. Some people don't care about the journey and are only concerned about having the biggest ships with the best loadouts so they can pew-pew. If they go in with that mentality of 'I want and I want it now', then the grind awaits them and the whinges come soon after when they realise how steep the wall just got.
Everything in this world now is geared towards being instant. Unfortunately Elite doesn't work that way and it's a shock to some, particularly the Call Of Duty type of player. With Elite it is designed for you to put in the time and the work. Some just want to find the fast path because they feel entitled to it.

To quote Obsidian Ant, "for many the game only truly begins when they get the ship they want and everything leading up to that is a grind". Over 100,000 follow him so it’s fair to say he has his finger on the pulse of the community.
I don't think it's fair to say that at all. I think his followers have their fingers on his pulse.
You will find CMDRs in this game with no YouTube channel who are far more knowledgeable with the in's and out's of Elite Dangerous.
And that's not a slight on Ant either, it's just how it is.


In addition to the above, one of the biggest complaints since day one has been Combat Logging. So let’s ask ourselves why do people combat log?

Numerous reasons. Loss of cargo, mission failings, not wanting to give griefers their next 'LOL'. Not wanting to play to the griefers timetable. Putting a finger up to griefers who have nothing better to do than spoil other people's games.
But again, this is off the point and not relevant to this topic.

Under the current economy is apparent that players are flying without rebuy, or with such low funds that the rebuy would wipe out too much progress. As a result they will easily combat log, or not play in open at all.

That is the players problem. You die without a rebuy and there's no-one to blame but yourself. Not playing in open until you can afford your rebuy is an option open to all. Most prefer to die at the hands of a role-playing pirate for non compliance than a griefer who just wants to kill you because he's insecure in himself and needs to feel better about himself.

Can you imagine if players had enough credits for 4 or 5 rebuy's, they'd be more inclined to stay in open and less inclined to log at the first sign of trouble.
Not so. I sit on 4billion CR. I can rebuy my entire fleet of 15 ships most likely. Yet I'm rarely in Open because I don't play to griefers timetables. I'm 100% ok with CMDR's who can and do properly role-play the pirate and bounty hunter, but griefers I have no time for. It's not a question of getting good either. I just choose Private Groups where griefers have no place.
Proper C&P that is strict instead of soft like we have in 3.0 would bring me back into Open. Without question.

So to sum up, should players be instant billionaires, NO, clearly not. But should players be able to sensibly earn the credits required to buy and build the ships in game, YES and the recent gold rushes prove the game does not currently allow them to do this.

Fine, on this we agree. But what is sensibly earning. With my ranks, rep and wealth I'm happy on 25m p/h max. But people who are expert or master should not be able to earn the same. Nowhere near. The missions rewards need to scale better but whatever Frontier do, they will NOT please everyone. If they try to, then they're lost.
The main issue is a lot of people need to realise that Elite IS a grind and it IS a timesink and if you cant put the same hours in as your mate then you don't get to progress as quick. Simple. People need to work for their earnings and stop exploiting the game and fast-tracking their way to what they think is some kind of space-nirvana.
I have no need for more ships or credits and am I having more fun now than I did when I was progressing ? No. And when I was progressing there were no engineers, power play or thargoids.

For me the mission board is mainly redundant, the AI too easy and I'm sat some days wondering what to do next. 3.0 has improved the situation a lot, thankfully.
 
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No, Ant is listening to a vocal minority who don't actually want to play Elite. They want a different game entirely.

And yet FD changed the roadmap because the mass decided the game isn't worth to keep playing, and that mass were enough to worry FD and leave the current way of development. Do you think a company does that kind of decision just randoly?.

However, some loads of ways we made money were unwanted exploids and it wasn't good. it was not good for the sake of the games balance, but I feel like FD lost control entirely about their balance thats why some tasks are worthless to do but take a long time and other "exploitable" constellations appear over and over. They lots the overview about the games credit currency, Surely one of the reasons why Engineers have gotten typical secondary currencuies like other grind MMO's do.
 
And yet FD changed the roadmap because the mass decided the game isn't worth to keep playing, and that mass were enough to worry FD and leave the current way of development. Do you think a company does that kind of decision just randoly?.

Which roadmap?

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To be fair also calling this latest skimmer trend "not an exploit" is a bit of a stretch.

It may not have involved board hopping or instance relogging but retreating to a safe distance so that more skimmers can spawn in the same base to complete a different mission seems entirely unintended gameplay

the skimmers respawn on a set timer around 30sec ish( did not time it just felt like it.) All I did was go there kill the guard ship kill the skimmers and wait for there natural respawn. Yes you can get them to respawn faster by backing up but it was completely unnecessary to do as they will respawn anyways. I can see them caping the payout per mission to about 2mill per as some where paying out 7.5+ mill.
 
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