Why Frontier are wrong to keep nerfing high credit earning methods.

[jonluv]

I have been playing for a very long time —being retired I normally play 2 hours after lunch. and from 7pm to 9pm—- have many billions and all the ships that I want but today having just come back to Jameson’s after a Guardian hunt lasting a few days the Mission board is not how I left it———- full of Wing Missions that are really poorly paid and missions I-would normally have taken are now worthless.

I am fortunately Elite so would expect high paying missions

I flew a Dolphin on the Guardian hunt and it is now totally ruined —- heat problems that you would not believe—- completely ruining what was in my mind the best run about in the game—-at the Guardian/Ancient sites duplication everywhere—- I scanned the same beacon(s) up to 5 times and in all honesty a storyline which is being ruined by bad production

I really cannot follow ED’s logic concerning the changes they make it is almost as if they have a death wish at every change something gets screwed up( I think “Nerfed”) or is not a completed scenario

It is a great game and fantastic value for money —- perhaps FD should do annual updates and charge for them, perhaps this would improve the quality and “playability”of the changes

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

you have a point on which i can agree in that having the notion that simply getting a corvette will suddenly make you enjoy the game may well be misguided.. i,m sure in some cases its true.. however that doesnt mean me you or anyone else should feel entitled to say therefore its not a valid point of view to have. my main concern with all these things is simply the whole idea of a group of long term players on forums coming up with this group think idea of what is the "correct " or acceptable" notion of what is or isnt needed to find fun in the game. and therefore seeking to make sure that any way for people to progress towards their own preferential way or enjoying the game be slowed down or hampered.

the game has plenty of grinds left there to make sure everyone "earns their fun" ( if thats what concerns you) like naval ranks and material grinds etc.. credits alone isnt the only time gate to stop newcommers having nice things.

i simply despise elitism in games and on forums in all its guises . and will always speak up against anyone trying to impose their ideas of what should and shouldnt be fun on anyone else.

I don't think anyone is doing that though. Certainly not me. I didn't even know about the skimmer exploit or the removal of it until today. It just so happens that I think that FDev have done the correct thing in removing them, as they deemed them to be broken. It has nothing to do with slowing down other peoples "progression" whatever that may be.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have been playing for a very long time —being retired I normally play 2 hours after lunch. and from 7pm to 9pm—- have many billions and all the ships that I want but today having just come back to Jameson’s after a Guardian hunt lasting a few days the Mission board is not how I left it———- full of Wing Missions that are really poorly paid and missions I-would normally have taken are now worthless.

I am fortunately Elite so would expect high paying missions

I flew a Dolphin on the Guardian hunt and it is now totally ruined —- heat problems that you would not believe—- completely ruining what was in my mind the best run about in the game—-at the Guardian/Ancient sites duplication everywhere—- I scanned the same beacon(s) up to 5 times and in all honesty a storyline which is being ruined by bad production

I really cannot follow ED’s logic concerning the changes they make it is almost as if they have a death wish at every change something gets screwed up( I think “Nerfed”) or is not a completed scenario

It is a great game and fantastic value for money —- perhaps FD should do annual updates and charge for them, perhaps this would improve the quality and “playability”of the changes

Whats up with the dolphin and how has it changed? I saw nothing in the patch notes regarding that.

 

[Garand1987]

I have been playing for a very long time —being retired I normally play 2 hours after lunch. and from 7pm to 9pm—- have many billions and all the ships that I want but today having just come back to Jameson’s after a Guardian hunt lasting a few days the Mission board is not how I left it———- full of Wing Missions that are really poorly paid and missions I-would normally have taken are now worthless.

I am fortunately Elite so would expect high paying missions

I flew a Dolphin on the Guardian hunt and it is now totally ruined —- heat problems that you would not believe—- completely ruining what was in my mind the best run about in the game—-at the Guardian/Ancient sites duplication everywhere—- I scanned the same beacon(s) up to 5 times and in all honesty a storyline which is being ruined by bad production

I really cannot follow ED’s logic concerning the changes they make it is almost as if they have a death wish at every change something gets screwed up( I think “Nerfed”) or is not a completed scenario

It is a great game and fantastic value for money —- perhaps FD should do annual updates and charge for them, perhaps this would improve the quality and “playability”of the changes

I wouldn’t mind paid DLC if money for dev is an issue. I have the season pass but even at that if they came out with an annual $30 DLC I’d be more than happy if it meant they could do even more with the game than they already are. Between the hours on Xbox and now on PC I think the cost to play for me so far has been something like 3 cents an hour. Crazy cheap. I actually went and spent about $20 on skins and stuff for ships I don’t have (yet, they’re my goal ships so I’ll have them eventually. And it gives me an incentive) because money, unfortunately, makes the world turn.

 

[oznig]

I don't think anyone is doing that though. Certainly not me. I didn't even know about the skimmer exploit or the removal of it until today. It just so happens that I think that FDev have done the correct thing in removing them, as they deemed them to be broken. It has nothing to do with slowing down other peoples "progression" whatever that may be.

then you havent read the whole thread methinks. or the exact same one regarding the passenger missions when they got nerfed a few months ago.. its always the same out come the "elite" rank forum dudes telling everyone how long they took to get their billions and fleet of ships, lots of anecdotes about how they enjoy the game and still explore the galaxy in a sidewinder etc etc... maybe mixed in with some generic crap about "entitled millenials "

always boiling down to the same narrative. which is " we dont need xyz to find the game fun so why should anyone else" which is to be of the opinion that somehow the problem isnt the game makes certain goals odiously long (dependant on which goals you set yourself) and thus players choose to seek and use any means necessery to speed that process up. rather the players themselves are the problem because they dont share the same opinion of what is necessary for them to have fun as you.

in a game where everyone is encouraged to set themselves goals its completely idiotic to then start to impose our goals and ideas of what should be fun and shouldnt ,, and even worse start seeking to or supporting measures that make it much harder for others to achieve those goals simply because we dont happen to share them..

this is the elitism thats rife here. and its on display for all to see.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Don't!

I had a mouthful of tea when I read that.

Tea? Meet monitor and keyboard!

 

[Saool]

I'm pretty ambivalent on the whole issue. I have no need to do this sort of thing, as I have all the ships I want right now and have about 600m in the bank. So money is not a need at the moment. But even if it was, I would find this sort of game play soulless. Indeed, it would highlight more and more that it is a game, not the space experience I enjoy. But that is me.

If someone else want's to spend there time getting hundreds of millions of credits in a few hours, doing a repeat action that lacks realism within the game world, then that is up to them. It has no effect on me. I would hate that. I love the early parts of games where you have very little. Every tiny gain is exciting and enabling. I can't see any fun in jumping to having millions overnight. It would be like going to a gold seller in another game, why?

But again someone else might not like the low end stuff, the fun of trying to survive with a small ship and a single laser, and trying to sell that small cargo for a enough to upgrade something. They might find joy in having the biggest and baddest of everything. I think that is shallow. They might find my way dull.

Ultimately it does not matter. As long as it does not impact how I want to play and how I have fun, fill your boots.

 

[oznig]

I'm pretty ambivalent on the whole issue. I have no need to do this sort of thing, as I have all the ships I want right now and have about 600m in the bank. So money is not a need at the moment. But even if it was, I would find this sort of game play soulless. Indeed, it would highlight more and more that it is a game, not the space experience I enjoy. But that is me.

If someone else want's to spend there time getting hundreds of millions of credits in a few hours, doing a repeat action that lacks realism within the game world, then that is up to them. It has no effect on me. I would hate that. I love the early parts of games where you have very little. Every tiny gain is exciting and enabling. I can't see any fun in jumping to having millions overnight. It would be like going to a gold seller in another game, why?

But again someone else might not like the low end stuff, the fun of trying to survive with a small ship and a single laser, and trying to sell that small cargo for a enough to upgrade something. They might find joy in having the biggest and baddest of everything. I think that is shallow. They might find my way dull.

Ultimately it does not matter. As long as it does not impact how I want to play and how I have fun, fill your boots.

see this ethos i applaud. well said that man. its about live and let live . if it keeps people playing the game and having fun . let them earn millions and have a big ship... i know 2 of my freinds who quit over the slow prgression to big ships came back and are playing and one even bought the horizons DLC. so he could do the skimmers and get some money. without this way for them to progress towards their chosen goals they were gone from the game. now i dont share their goals in game and expect nobody else to either. I would simply encourage folk to reflect on this guy right here's post and see if it can't be a wiser viewpoint to adopt on the matter.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

then you havent read the whole thread methinks. or the exact same one regarding the passenger missions when they got nerfed a few months ago.. its always the same out come the "elite" rank forum dudes telling everyone how long they took to get their billions and fleet of ships, lots of anecdotes about how they enjoy the game and still explore the galaxy in a sidewinder etc etc... maybe mixed in with some generic crap about "entitled millenials "

always boiling down to the same narrative. which is " we dont need xyz to find the game fun so why should anyone else" which is to be of the opinion that somehow the problem isnt the game makes certain goals odiously long (dependant on which goals you set yourself) and thus players choose to seek and use any means necessery to speed that process up. rather the players themselves are the problem because they dont share the same opinion of what is necessary for them to have fun as you.

in a game where everyone is encouraged to set themselves goals its completely idiotic to then start to impose our goals and ideas of what should be fun and shouldnt ,, and even worse start seeking to or supporting measures that make it much harder for others to achieve those goals simply because we dont happen to share them..

this is the elitism thats rife here. and its on display for all to see.

Maybe they were just pointing out ideas in how to enjoy the game. I have seen very few posts from people telling people how to play the game. I have seen loads with suggestions and opinions. Whether someone takes them up on that suggestion or agrees with that opinion is entirely up to the individual.

I talk about the way I play the game in the hope that it may help people that can't stand the grind. Whether they wan't to play the way I play is entirely up to them though and I am not going to be upset if they do or don't.

I just get sick of the moaning about the grind, when most of it is self imposed due to there own chosen playstyle and how they go about getting their goals.

 

[fitzsteve]

And I fly a shieldless ASP Scout, I'm prolly one of the 3 guys in ED using this ship lol

Really that many?

 

[Gun Star]

I dont mind gold rushes here and there, but If people say they will leave the game because they cant have big ships and billions in the bank after playing a couple of weeks. Good riddance. Most of those players get what they want and then complain there is nothing for them to do. Do I think pay scales need some adjusting. Yes, but when I hear people getting 3 billion and Admiral & Duke from no rank in 3 days. That is just absurd.

 

[Chaparral]

Steam chart elite dangerous active players

I guess FDEV does not want more people playing.

 

[Vorxian]

I dont mind gold rushes here and there, but If people say they will leave the game because they cant have big ships and billions in the bank after playing a couple of weeks. Good riddance. Most of those players get what they want and then complain there is nothing for them to do. Do I think pay scales need some adjusting. Yes, but when I hear people getting 3 billion and Admiral & Duke from no rank in 3 days. That is just absurd.

I got Serf to King in 4 days of very casual play - when you could stack 100 skimmer missions back at Shu Babasi - spent about 1 - 2 hours a night.

Best thing I ever did, and the best time investment so far in ED. After the nerfs and sawing off peoples legs so they couldn't run through the content, the same thing now would take me MONTHS!

I'm personally glad I don't have to go through any of that again. The sad thing is, I got promoted to King hauling 8t of agricultural stuff. Don't care what walk of life you're from... one should not get promoted to king hauling 8t of agricultural stuff.

I digress.

Rep walls, and content gates preventing fun leaves a sour taste for me. I'm happy with ED. I cheesed my way to opening all the content I need to keep me playing for years. If I didn't or hadn't, I'd have quit already locked behind a gate looking at all the beautiful stuff I can't get.

 

[Vorxian]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18BtwLws5xyJoxfTX8pwDBcaPZvKHP5Es
Steam chart elite dangerous active players

I guess FDEV does not want more people playing.

What made me chuckle was the player peak during the skimmer 'hack'. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

 

[Darty]

On my alt account I have just over 30M credits and have put 20-30 hours in at most. My current ship is a viper and I am saving for a clipper. I have made almost all my money (except for the money to upgrade from the freewinder to a hauler) from mining, which isn't the most profitable activity in the game. I haven't really felt like I was grinding, and having poor finances actually made the game more interesting and challenging than it is on my main account where crashing my cutter into a planet or dieing with my 50M powerplay chuck uncashed is more of an inconvenience than a real loss.

The issue isn't that it's too hard to make credits, it's that it takes hundreds of hours of gameplay just to figure out how to make credits. E:D has a major and persistent issue in this regard. In game information on what's the best or most efficient way of doing something is basically non-existent, and the information that players have accumulated is often spotty and inconsistent.

 

[ArchEmperor]

It is not about CREDITS. It is about removing FUN.

It is not a game to immerse and inspire you, but a tedium to prolong your agony.

 

[Eldragon]

I agree with the OP. My frustration comes in several layers:

1- Earning 100 million credits an hour is reasonable when you're rebuy is 20+ million. Its absurd when your rebuy is 20,000. The game scales income very poorly and these gold rush zones happen because players are desperate for cash to finally get into the "big ships". The game only gets good when you can afford to fly the ship you enjoy the most.

2- Very often the tasks you find most fun are simply not profitable and often make no sense. Killing 10 pirate skimmers pays better than killing 10 pirate ships. Hauling 10 tons of garbage pays better than smuggling 100 tons of illegal goods.

3- The gold rush behavior is a missed opportunity for FDev to have effective community goals. A huge chunk of a the community rushes out to kill skimmers. Its damn shame FDev has failed to generate this kind of enthusiasm for rescuing people from stations, killing thargoids, or any other CG.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I dont mind gold rushes here and there, but If people say they will leave the game because they cant have big ships and billions in the bank after playing a couple of weeks. Good riddance. Most of those players get what they want and then complain there is nothing for them to do. Do I think pay scales need some adjusting. Yes, but when I hear people getting 3 billion and Admiral & Duke from no rank in 3 days. That is just absurd.

Let me preface this with: Nothing I am About to Say is Personal

The very first thing I have to ask when I hear "[...] but when I hear people getting 3 billion and Admiral & Duke from no rank in 3 days. That is just absurd." is: Why? Because you couldn't?

Let's think and talk about this. It doesn't affect your standings, your rankings, or what you can or cannot do in any way. It doesn't effect how you play at all if someone does manage to do this. I don't think it should be impossible to pull off a meteoric rise through the ranks like this. I don't think it should be easy or even all that exciting to do either. It should be an honest-to-goodness, 24-hours a day, non-stop grind that makes EVE look pale in comparison if someone really wants to do this. By the time they're done they should be hating life, perhaps in need of a new set of controls, and a week long break from Elite.

I liken this to the time I wanted to raise a very large sum of cash to purchase a very expensive boat, and did so by working three jobs, seven days a week, 16 hours a day, plus putting in some extra time during what little time off I did have to complete some side projects for extra-extra-extra-extra money. Six months of this, and I was utterly exhausted, but I'd raised the funds I needed to buy what I wanted, bid a very fond farewell to job #2 and job #3, and found myself too exhausted to actually enjoy the fruit of my labors for a couple weeks - which was OK because there were delivery times and a few other special arrangements to be made, so I made use of my downtime.

I hated every minute of it, but kept my eye on the target and pushed through. In the end, my efforts were rewarded.

I don't see any problem with being able to do the same here - but it shouldn't be through board-flipping, mode-hopping and every shortcut method available. It should be work, hard work - something only the most dedicated would be willing to put in, and that dedication should be rewarded.

The "Gold Rush" is a separate matter entirely... these are actually good things, if they're regulated properly, and can be a great opportunity to lure people out of comfort zones and get them involved in other aspects of Elite they might not otherwise engage in without the promise of some brass ring.

The trick comes in finding just the right balance - and that is something that would likely take a fair bit of trial and error. All the developers and QA-staff in the world are never going to be able to look at something from all the angles that a player base will. They may think they have something that's air-tight and just right, only to discover, an hour after release, that we've found some shortcut or means of circumventing their intentions, because we don't go to the staff meetings, we don't participate in the internal discussions - we see things very differently and we look at things in ways they may not ever think to do, and all that effort goes to waste.

Then they try to "fix" it, and the player base reacts like a frog dropped into boiling water.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

What made me chuckle was the player peak during the skimmer 'hack'. There's a lesson in there somewhere.

Yeah, lots of players openly admitting they just play ED for end game ships and nothing else.

I don't think there's lesson you looked for.

It is not about CREDITS. It is about removing FUN.

It is not a game to immerse and inspire you, but a tedium to prolong your agony.

No, it is about credits and human nature wanting something big and bad and skipping path to it.

 

[jonluv]

Whats up with the dolphin and how has it changed? I saw nothing in the patch notes regarding that.

You have to turn off as many modules as you can to allow fuel scooping and leaving planets that have gravity over 0.9 or thereabouts—- so using a Dolphin for sightseeing is now dangerous and may lead to rebuy