"But... but... it's that yucky, icky PVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Pretty much, if the git gud part was actually "get good" and not "do repetitive mind numbing task times > times your opponent did it".
ah, but how do you do it more times than someone else?
You "git gud" at it.
I was in Mobius group one day, in my 500T T9 that I had at the time. Bumped into another T9 doing the same trade run as me, so we jumped in to a wing together to get the trade vouchers on top of our trading.
I lost money that session (in comparison to what I'd have made if I has stayed alone) due to the other T9 not being as good at the turn around as I am. On average, I was waiting an extra 25 - 30 seconds each end of the A-B-A trade route for them to dock, sell, load, launch and line up for the jump. All that time over 4 hours adds up.
It's not just pushing PvE tokens about, it's about being good and being efficient at it.
Any idiot can A-B-A trade, but to be consistently good/efficient over a period of time, takes skill.
Just like any idiot can pew pew, but it takes skill to be consistently a winner.
Exactly. Skill is applied in different ways, by different people. Just as some carpenters still use a hammer instead of an airgun. They're still building, just using different methods to do so.
We ALL have to learn how to pilot spacecraft in this game- whether PvE or PvP. That's about as "basic" an assumption as you're gonna get here.
Goose4291
Banned
Pretty much this.
I dont equate
1. Go to mission board.
2. Stack all planetary assault missions for you chosen faction.
3. Switch instance.
4. Repeat steps one and two till you've reached maximum stack limit.
5. Fly to planetary base.
6. Fire one dumbfire missile at the objective.
7. Repeat till mission tab is clear.
8. Either fly back to the issuing starport, or suicide back there (as missions dont fail once they reach the complete stage.
9. Repeat till you've ran out of netflix to watch on the other monitor.
To engaging, intelligent or challenging gameplay. It just seems exploitey as hell regarding broken game mechanics.
For me, Horizons missions are what killed BGS play.
Neither do I, but if that is what someone enjoys then leave them to it.
Remember, how boring you find that style of play is how boring some people find PvP.
And lucky for all of us, we don't have to play together.
That's a good point and I dont see why this cannot be combined with pvp, example: wing of T9s carrying cargo/leaflets protected by a wing of FDLs while the enemy is trying to kill you. Great fights, you still get to trade, protected from murder and even if you are killed, it wasnt a gank but a legit attack.
This is content right there.
This is garabage game play.
Its done for credit exploits if one is not interested in PVE, just get rich quick method.
If the game was engaging with proper pay and dynamic content, people wouldnt want this horrible grindy gameplay to get credits and actually do what they really want in the game.
Goose4291
Banned
The problem is if it's done against a PF, the only option is to play in that exact same way if they don't want to surrender their sandcastle to a bunch of exploiters, forcing them to conform to that exploitative gameplay choice.
The whole BGS and indirect PvP it generates shows woefully how unprepared or experienced the FDev team were with a modern multiplayer game. Even now, it's still better for your faction in a BGS war to
1: Jump into CZ
2: Find easiest kill
3: Return to starport and hand in the 1 bond
Because the BGS is built around the number of transactions, rather than their value (well, with the exception of the change done to commodity markets to protect the big player groups interests, which I really dont want to get into due to the salt its going to generate).
I'd ask it was me but I don't have a T9, but I do know you've had to wait on me before when we did trade runs
Except for the exploiting part, I'd agree.
Frontier has taken steps to mitigate the unintended consequences of poor persistence, but they still have quite a way to go.
Well, Goose, I have to say your description of BGS work sounds neither fun, nor efficient. Thankfully, the way I perform BGS work is both.
Goose4291
Banned
Well, Goose, I have to say your description of BGS work sounds neither fun, nor efficient. Thankfully, the way I perform BGS work is both.
I agree its definitely not fun (which is why outside of an experiment I did in a medium population system out on the fringes, to confirm what I'd read, I don't do this sort of thing). But it is sadly super efficient as the Prismatic Imperium would testify (they have a planetary base in their home system, which people were using for mission stacking/rank grinding and it really screwed with their numbers, even though they're a big and well co-ordinated group).
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It was a random player I met while I was playing on my own one day.
I don't mind waiting for folks when I login for social play, which is most of the time.
That particular day in my example I was very close to getting my first Anaconda, so I was really focused on getting the money for it.
Figured the Wing vouchers would be a nice addition when I met the random player (nice player btw, was an enjoyable session and nice to have someone to talk with), though ultimately I was slowed down for making that choice.
If I knew then what I know now - I'd still join the wing. Because ships come and go, but making new friends is priceless.
I have no doubt it is effective, but so is anything if you through enough manpower into it.
But speaking as a BGS player, to paraphrase an old saying: simple, fast, or effective: choose two. The strategy you outline above works through sheer numbers, by moving one of the many levers of the BGS. As a player with limited time, I've always favored a strategy that will move several levers at the same time.
Goose4291
Banned
Who mentioned manpower? I'm talking about it on the individual player level.
Completing 20 influence++ missions in less than half an hour as an individual pilot will always trump playing the playing of the BGS the proper way as an individual pilot.
One player managed to tank the mobius PF rep by himself with only a couple of hours gameplay a week doing the above, while being opposed by folks doing it the 'proper' way. There are countless other examples of how BGS exploiting can only be beaten by returning in kind, unless you're a preferred player group with the devs on speed dial to patch stuff out (see: the 1t transaction exploit)
tl/dr: BGS is broken and exploitable, and if youre fighting against exploiters, the only way to do it and stand a chance is to exploit too.
I obviously misunderstood this comment:
Which is what I meant about manpower. When you invest a lot of effort into a system, so that it creates good missions, you kind of dread word getting out about it. A bunch of people descending upon a system can easily kill the goose that lays golden eggs. I thought you were describing one of those situations, not about a single player using exploits, like the one ton loss exploit, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
Which is what I meant about manpower. When you invest a lot of effort into a system, so that it creates good missions, you kind of dread word getting out about it. A bunch of people descending upon a system can easily kill the goose that lays golden eggs. I thought you were describing one of those situations, not about a single player using exploits, like the one ton loss exploit, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.