What is always absent from these types of thread, is this:
Define combat. Define it within the context of this game.
Define combat. Define it within the context of this game.
I do not believe that it should be possible to leave combat except via piloting: meaning you kill, you die, you jump, or you self-destruct.
I do not agree with a menu quit option that permits a ship with 0% FSD or 0% Drives (or both) to be teleported to safety by handwavium.
Therefore I do not believe that it should be possible to exercise the menu quit option at all whilst in combat (or other danger). If RL calls you away, you leave your ship to its fate.
If, however, as I expect, the menu quit timer remains in game, I believe that its duration should be elevated to longer than a piloted exit could ever take.
In other words, if we assume a guy fights the interdiction, fails it, waits out the long FSD cooldown, then gets hit by a Yuri Grom missile, then has to wait out that second cooldown, and then has to charge FSD for highwake and achieve highwake ... the menu quit timer should, for reasons that I hope are obvious, be made longer than that total time.
In other words, longer even than 60 seconds.
It should also be accompanied (as an FSD charge is) by a clear indication to the enemy of what is taking place.
I do, however, entirely agree with those who say that once activated, it should not require a second press at the end of the timer. If it's going to stay in game it may as well have a reasonable UI.
However, my fundamental concern as both a pilot and a customer is that as a matter of principle I do not believe it should ever be advantageous to us an out-of-game quit option to escape peril, over in-game piloting.
I do not believe that it should be possible to leave combat except via piloting: meaning you kill, you die, you jump, or you self-destruct.
I do not agree with a menu quit option that permits a ship with 0% FSD or 0% Drives (or both) to be teleported to safety by handwavium.
Therefore I do not believe that it should be possible to exercise the menu quit option at all whilst in combat (or other danger). If RL calls you away, you leave your ship to its fate.
If, however, as I expect, the menu quit timer remains in game, I believe that its duration should be elevated to longer than a piloted exit could ever take.
In other words, if we assume a guy fights the interdiction, fails it, waits out the long FSD cooldown, then gets hit by a Yuri Grom missile, then has to wait out that second cooldown, and then has to charge FSD for highwake and achieve highwake ... the menu quit timer should, for reasons that I hope are obvious, be made longer than that total time.
In other words, longer even than 60 seconds.
It should also be accompanied (as an FSD charge is) by a clear indication to the enemy of what is taking place.
I do, however, entirely agree with those who say that once activated, it should not require a second press at the end of the timer. If it's going to stay in game it may as well have a reasonable UI.
However, my fundamental concern as both a pilot and a customer is that as a matter of principle I do not believe it should ever be advantageous to us an out-of-game quit option to escape peril, over in-game piloting.
Can we get an Amazon Delivery/Child spilt drink on TV button though for us people who have to leave the game quickly sometimes!
No menu log in combat, would make RES of limit for me. I've logget out of countless fights that I was winning, because of RL.
Never menu logged on a player though. If that situasjon came up, I would hi-wake first and then menu log.
I do not believe that it should be possible to leave combat except via piloting: meaning you kill, you die, you jump, or you self-destruct.
I do not agree with a menu quit option that permits a ship with 0% FSD or 0% Drives (or both) to be teleported to safety by handwavium.
Therefore I do not believe that it should be possible to exercise the menu quit option at all whilst in combat (or other danger). If RL calls you away, you leave your ship to its fate.
If, however, as I expect, the menu quit timer remains in game, I believe that its duration should be elevated to longer than a piloted exit could ever take.
In other words, if we assume a guy fights the interdiction, fails it, waits out the long FSD cooldown, then gets hit by a Yuri Grom missile, then has to wait out that second cooldown, and then has to charge FSD for highwake and achieve highwake ... the menu quit timer should, for reasons that I hope are obvious, be made longer than that total time.
In other words, longer even than 60 seconds.
It should also be accompanied (as an FSD charge is) by a clear indication to the enemy of what is taking place.
I do, however, entirely agree with those who say that once activated, it should not require a second press at the end of the timer. If it's going to stay in game it may as well have a reasonable UI.
However, my fundamental concern as both a pilot and a customer is that as a matter of principle I do not believe it should ever be advantageous to use an out-of-game quit option to escape peril, over in-game piloting.
I think there might be a solution to this problem and perhaps even to much of combat logging generally ...
... NPC controlled high-wake.
I (as hypothetical aggressor, eg Powerplay) don't have a problem with my enemy hitting a 'get me outta here!' key and then either watching tensely or even going AFK while their ship, on autopilot or via crew member, clears any mass-locking bodies and then high wakes.
NPC's already do this all the time, so the AI is already in game.
My only stipulation would be that said 'auto high wake' be reasonably slow - nothing like as fast as a skilled, experienced player, more at the level of a flustered newcomer - to give pirates and PvP attackers a fair chance to do their thing.
In other words, it should never confer an advantage on the player using it (because they would have been better off high waking themselves) but it would give them an option of escape that wouldn't break anybody's immersion.
This is all well and good but no one has answered my previous reply on this why should solo and private groups be forced to endure a much longer logout to satisfy the PVP players in open if they want this then the timer should be removed from the other modes, also the things that kick the timer in should be changed as well would should I be forced to wait the 60 seconds or more to logout just because I am fuel scooping by a star or my SRV is near a base although I am not being fired on in solo or a player group.
One thing I don't believe lengthening the logout timer will do is actually help these players get what they want I just believe we will see a increase in combat logging even with the proposed karma system, how long will it take for griefers to work out how much positives in game actions will be needed to out weigh a few negative combat logs or if they use a underpowered weaponless ship to combat log only suffer a lower drop as the pvper is in a much better warship, or worse still use the p2p exploits to kill players from their instance to save themselves so they are still connected to FD servers and so negate the karma points
Having an AI pilot take over your ship to clear masslock & simulate a high wake would work. It's a contentious issue though & I appreciate some may take a different view here. This is the part that could make the proposal unworkable.
On the actual time it takes (ie changing from the current (15secs) you have a point, it's subjective. For some it's already too long, for others it's not long enough. whatever happens (even if nothing changes) some will be unhappy.
However if the confirmation to exit is moved from the end of the timer to be beginning (with an option to cancel) I'd say arguing against an extended timer is harder to justify. You can just walk away from the computer.
Unfortunately, this is currently unworkable, due to the P2P design of the game. There's no way for the AI to seamlessly take command of a player's ship, once the connection is severed. As a programmer, it seems like it might be possible to inject an NPC to substitute for a player, but FD doesn't seem to want to go down this route.
Keep the timer as it is, just have it reset whenever you take damage (and as others have said, have an option to confirm it then walk away rather than waiting the 15).
That way it's not a cheap escape route from any situation but its still easy to activate when real life calls
If using SR to get into a station, then shields can be replaced with extra cargo space.Might want to rethink your actions... doing smuggling with a ship with no shields should be a suicide mission anyway.
Leave the menu timer as is against NPC's. Increase the timer from 15 seconds to 30-60 against human players. Get rid of the "Accept" button at the end of the countdown.
Everybody wins
you cannot compare quitting this game to quitting a match in another game because of the asset grind and consequences. the current logout timer is fine imo a balance of can't just quit and need to pause.
Logging out is not supposed to be used to avoid consequences, whether it's against another player or an NPC. The fact you choose to grind and put so much importance on the accumulation of virtual property that you lose sight of the game behind is not a justification to use it so.
Leave the menu timer as is against NPC's. Increase the timer from 15 seconds to 30-60 against human players. Get rid of the "Accept" button at the end of the countdown.
Everybody wins
But as said earlier, you cannot establish context (like CLogging).