With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!

[Mohrgan]

Nice post as ever, sir.

I hear, read, understand and agree with everything you have to say ... until you reach the implication that we should log instead of pilot.

Nah.

We try piloting.

If it doesn't work.

We die.

I agree with everything you say until you come to the part where... Nope, you have to agree with that. It is simply ridiculous to cheat in video games.

I am just mystified at how much energy is expelled over combat logging. It's cheating, and childish, but it brings out craziness in some.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I agree with everything you say until you come to the part where... Nope, you have to agree with that. It is simply ridiculous to cheat in video games.

I am just mystified at how much energy is expelled over combat logging. It's cheating, and childish, but it brings out craziness in some.

I'll point out that at no time ever in the history of my being on these forums have I ever advocated for 'combat logging'. Not once.

 

[jasonbarron]

Ah, jason. Always missing my point

No, I do get your point. I happen to think it's a valid one from your perspective, but a little unreasonable. Technically speaking, I'm in the right.

You might not be "exploiting money" but I've never met a Cutter pilot who didn't use some form of at least a mild money exploit to earn and outfit their ship (the exploit you use is an exploit; the exploit I enjoy is no exploit at all!), and now that you've got your Cutter credits flow like water through a floodgate, so there is simply no financial reason to fear the rebuy screen. So that leaves pride and attachment. I get that those two things are very real to many of you, and I agree that it leads to many melodramatic exchanges on this forum, where hysterical billionaires are screaming their heads off because some dirty ganker, well, ganked them. I've lost track of how many discussions I've had with PvE players have become detached from reality and more or less espoused your point of view: "Our spaceships aren't just pixels that we can easily replace, so you are a terrible human being in real life (the other real life) for blowing me up!"

One party is being reasonable. One party is simply not. This is a game, and our spaceships are indeed quite make believe.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

This thread still going on and no word from the one really matters... Mr. S.S. I still get hopes of seeing him reply to it

 

[Riverside]

This thread still going on and no word from the one really matters... Mr. S.S. I still get hopes of seeing him reply to it

You could just PM him.

 

[Gunnet]

No, I do get your point. I happen to think it's a valid one from your perspective, but a little unreasonable. Technically speaking, I'm in the right.

You might not be "exploiting money" but I've never met a Cutter pilot who didn't use some form of at least a mild money exploit to earn and outfit their ship (the exploit you use is an exploit; the exploit I enjoy is no exploit at all!), and now that you've got your Cutter credits flow like water through a floodgate, so there is simply no financial reason to fear the rebuy screen. So that leaves pride and attachment. I get that those two things are very real to many of you, and I agree that it leads to many melodramatic exchanges on this forum, where hysterical billionaires are screaming their heads off because some dirty ganker, well, ganked them. I've lost track of how many discussions I've had with PvE players have become detached from reality and more or less espoused your point of view: "Our spaceships aren't just pixels that we can easily replace, so you are a terrible human being in real life (the other real life) for blowing me up!"

One party is being reasonable. One party is simply not. This is a game, and our spaceships are indeed quite make believe.

The only semi-credible justification I've ever seen for somebody not being happy with a victory regardless of whether or not their opponent sees the rebuy screen is that inflicting financial loss potentially provides them with an advantage in the future.

If credits are irrelevant, why do we see so many melodramatic exchanges where gankers are "screaming their heads off" because they weren't able to cost some billionaire one percent of their bank balance?

 

[Tarman]

The only semi-credible justification I've ever seen for somebody not being happy with a victory regardless of whether or not their opponent sees the rebuy screen is that inflicting financial loss potentially provides them with an advantage in the future.

If credits are irrelevant, why do we see so many melodramatic exchanges where gankers are "screaming their heads off" because they weren't able to cost some billionaire one percent of their bank balance?

We have elements in each "society" of Elite pilots that are bat-guano insano and super-loud. They constantly derail actual discussions between "camps" of Pretend Spacemen who might otherwise have had more rational discussions, and the signal gets lost in the static blasts. Add in people who play the forum as their main game to instigate the most crazyloud and voila, forum WAAAAAAGH.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

The only semi-credible justification I've ever seen for somebody not being happy with a victory regardless of whether or not their opponent sees the rebuy screen is that inflicting financial loss potentially provides them with an advantage in the future.

If credits are irrelevant, why do we see so many melodramatic exchanges where gankers are "screaming their heads off" because they weren't able to cost some billionaire one percent of their bank balance?

It's the nature of the type of animal you are. A duck is going to be a duck and do duck things and think duck thoughts. A koala is going to be a koala and think koala thoughts. Make one of those animals PvE players and one PvP players. A duck will never understand the reasoning of a koala. I don't know maybe a platypus could figure it out.

 

[Tarman]

It's the nature of the type of animal you are. A duck is going to be a duck and do duck things and think duck thoughts. A koala is going to be a koala and think koala thoughts. Make one of those animals PvE players and one PvP players. A duck will never understand the reasoning of a koala. I don't know maybe a platypus could figure it out.

BY OUR POWERS COMBINED

I must be one, I frequently understand points of view and pastimes I don't currently share.

 

[Riverside]

BY OUR POWERS COMBINED

I must be one, I frequently understand points of view and pastimes I don't currently share.

Me too. I'm now wondering if I'm a Duala or...

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

No, I do get your point. I happen to think it's a valid one from your perspective, but a little unreasonable. Technically speaking, I'm in the right.

In reality, we're both correct.

You might not be "exploiting money" but I've never met a Cutter pilot who didn't use some form of at least a mild money exploit to earn and outfit their ship (the exploit you use is an exploit; the exploit I enjoy is no exploit at all!),

Um, no not at all. I usually just play the game, a lot of my credits were earned through exploration, but I dabble in a bit of bounty-hunting here and there (as I started off the game as a bounty-hunter), and I've mostly been back in the bubble for months now, doing passenger missions mostly. Oh yeah I did earn a big wodge of cash in an Empire CG last year I think it was, but I've not participated in a CG since.

and now that you've got your Cutter credits flow like water through a floodgate, so there is simply no financial reason to fear the rebuy screen.

Again, no, not really. Not for me. I've only got just under 37M in cash and my rebuy for the Cutter is 11M. So I very much don't particularly wish to have my ship blown up, thanks.

So that leaves pride and attachment. I get that those two things are very real to many of you, and I agree that it leads to many melodramatic exchanges on this forum, where hysterical billionaires are screaming their heads off because some dirty ganker, well, ganked them.

I take pride in Not Dying Anymore. I've died a total of 14 times in this game since Premium Beta. Twice due to another player - the 1st time in an ExploraClipper paper ship in Shinrarta Dezhra (foolish and naive), the 2nd time when making my little Anatomy Of A Gank video (to make a point to Sandro about the weak station weaponry which got that changed). I've self-destructed at least 3 times for various reasons, and the rest were either to an NPC in various scenarios or when I splatted against a canyon wall in my superfast iEagle (good cheap fun that).

But on the whole, after playing for, what, 3 years now? Only getting blown up 14 times over that period is something I do take some pride in.

Yes, my assets are only 670-odd million credits over that time. That's basically sunk into a Conda, a Cutter, a brand new Fer de Lance which I'll need to RNGineer at some point, a Diamondback Explorer, and an iEagle. I have never even reached 1 Billion in assets let alone credits.

Attachment. Yes, like I mentioned, I do get attached to the Conda & Cutter. The others maybe not as such. I've sunk a lot of time and effort into the big 2, and I value that time spent doing that. So yes indeed they are mere virtual pixel spaceships, but they're avatars for the time and effort I spent into trying to enjoy the game. They're my 'wages' if you like. Damn straight I'm attached to them

I've lost track of how many discussions I've had with PvE players have become detached from reality and more or less espoused your point of view: "Our spaceships aren't just pixels that we can easily replace, so you are a terrible human being in real life (the other real life) for blowing me up!"

You're putting words in my mouth. You should stop that. I said some player types get attached to their ships, and to those, ships aren't just simple disposable things. I did not say 'you are a terrible human being'. I am pointing out an observation that the players who espouse a desire for PvP are more likely to consider their virtual spaceships as disposable assets, and that mixing these two conflicting attitudes towards the game, causes most of the conflict out of the game.

One party is being reasonable. One party is simply not. This is a game, and our spaceships are indeed quite make believe.

I posit that both parties are being reasonable, each in their own ways. Neither are wrong! I can see the PvP'ers point of view very clearly. I can put myself in their shoes and empathise entirely with their viewpoint. Similarly, I can see the point of view of those who become attached to their ships.

Like I say in another post - this game has at least two parallel universes. In one, players are playing the game in what they believe Frontier intended as being within the 'spirit of the game', which is to say, mostly PvE, forming an attachment with their ships, caring about being blown up. The other group of players are playing the game in what they believe Frontier intended as being within the 'spirit of the game', which is to say, a 'cutthroat galaxy', essentially CQC Galaxy.

Open connectivity mode is what joins these two universes together. They collide, and the end result is a massive popcorn & salt machine. And at the end of the day the fault lies squarely with Frontier.

 

[jasonbarron]

In reality, we're both correct.



Um, no not at all. I usually just play the game, a lot of my credits were earned through exploration, but I dabble in a bit of bounty-hunting here and there (as I started off the game as a bounty-hunter), and I've mostly been back in the bubble for months now, doing passenger missions mostly. Oh yeah I did earn a big wodge of cash in an Empire CG last year I think it was, but I've not participated in a CG since.




Again, no, not really. Not for me. I've only got just under 37M in cash and my rebuy for the Cutter is 11M. So I very much don't particularly wish to have my ship blown up, thanks.





I take pride in Not Dying Anymore. I've died a total of 14 times in this game since Premium Beta. Twice due to another player - the 1st time in an ExploraClipper paper ship in Shinrarta Dezhra (foolish and naive), the 2nd time when making my little Anatomy Of A Gank video (to make a point to Sandro about the weak station weaponry which got that changed). I've self-destructed at least 3 times for various reasons, and the rest were either to an NPC in various scenarios or when I splatted against a canyon wall in my superfast iEagle (good cheap fun that).

But on the whole, after playing for, what, 3 years now? Only getting blown up 14 times over that period is something I do take some pride in.

Yes, my assets are only 670-odd million credits over that time. That's basically sunk into a Conda, a Cutter, a brand new Fer de Lance which I'll need to RNGineer at some point, a Diamondback Explorer, and an iEagle. I have never even reached 1 Billion in assets let alone credits.

Attachment. Yes, like I mentioned, I do get attached to the Conda & Cutter. The others maybe not as such. I've sunk a lot of time and effort into the big 2, and I value that time spent doing that. So yes indeed they are mere virtual pixel spaceships, but they're avatars for the time and effort I spent into trying to enjoy the game. They're my 'wages' if you like. Damn straight I'm attached to them





You're putting words in my mouth. You should stop that. I said some player types get attached to their ships, and to those, ships aren't just simple disposable things. I did not say 'you are a terrible human being'. I am pointing out an observation that the players who espouse a desire for PvP are more likely to consider their virtual spaceships as disposable assets, and that mixing these two conflicting attitudes towards the game, causes most of the conflict out of the game.




I posit that both parties are being reasonable, each in their own ways. Neither are wrong! I can see the PvP'ers point of view very clearly. I can put myself in their shoes and empathise entirely with their viewpoint. Similarly, I can see the point of view of those who become attached to their ships.

Like I say in another post - this game has at least two parallel universes. In one, players are playing the game in what they believe Frontier intended as being within the 'spirit of the game', which is to say, mostly PvE, forming an attachment with their ships, caring about being blown up. The other group of players are playing the game in what they believe Frontier intended as being within the 'spirit of the game', which is to say, a 'cutthroat galaxy', essentially CQC Galaxy.

Open connectivity mode is what joins these two universes together. They collide, and the end result is a massive popcorn & salt machine. And at the end of the day the fault lies squarely with Frontier.

Wow Genar, I'm going to hit you with rep just for the frickin size of that G5 wall o text you just dropped on my head.

Just a couple of thoughts, right off the top of my head: if you have a Cutter and only 37 million credits in liquidity you really need...you know what? I have nothing for that. Words fail me.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, but rather summing up the positions of people who I've conversed with who also look at their ships a little too realistically and are pretty unreasonable in their dialogue. You've always been pretty gentlemanly with your posts, so sorry to paint you with the broad brush.

I'll have to think about your post and get back to you with something worthy. Probably a tutorial on how to increase your wealth in 5 easy steps

 

[kinglemo2000]

Punctuation is your friend. Anyway, "I can stand there for minutes" is just an argument to make the timer a few minutes. Here's the argument this topic is about:

1) The timer is not for escaping stuff.
2) If you want to escape stuff, use hi-wake. It will end any timer. So if the timer is a million hours, a simple hi-wake will fix it. Using the menu is exploity.
3) This has nothing to do with pvp, salty, butt-hurt, evil, griefers, anything. This goes for all modes, for all reasons, in all circumstances.
4) If real-life emergences call your attention, by all means attend to them. We all do. Just dont complain your virtual space ship exploded.



Dont you find it all that none of 'you' are part of 'you'? They all claim 'most of us are in that situation' and 'I personally dont use the menu'. Dont get me wrong, I am not calling you a liar. But if none of you do it, whats the problem with extending the timer?

One problem my friend I am not escaping stuff in solo there is nothing to escape in solo, I just expect when playing a single player game to be able to turn it off when I want to, you know just like any other game I am playing at the moment.

If you are wondering way I am taking this stance on this 60 sec idea, blame the poster who brought me into this thread with the words I quote "Solo\PG pukes stay out of as it doesn't concern you" or words to that effect, he has since removed the offending post I have just checked this, that got my back up and made me angry why shouldn't solo players have a input on a idea. So solo players are second citizen's in open players eyes, sadly this attitude seems prevalent this weekend going by another poster in the hotel thread about solo players.

So I have taken a nice hard entrenched position on why should a open player idea be forced onto a solo player that has no bearing on a solo players game and adds nothing to his enjoyment or QOL, it is you and the other poster that responded to me that has taken a stance and decided to pre-judge me and accuse me of being a cheat without knowing me.

PS sorry about punctuation it is a pain replying from a phone as I am not on a pc

 

[Schmack]

Interesting how angry the pew pew crowd got when their god rolls were removed.

 

[Soliluna]

One problem my friend I am not escaping stuff in solo there is nothing to escape in solo, I just expect when playing a single player game to be able to turn it off when I want to, you know just like any other game I am playing at the moment.

I think the issue with solo mode, personally, is the lack of pause. If there's something going on in life (there invariably is with a baby), I need to go. I go and I lose ships, very regularly (which is why I have barely played the past 18 or so months).

Any reason to not have a pause in solo, is just poor design through and through.

 

[Stigbob]

In reality, we're both correct.

<snipped for brevity>

Don't disagree with anything you've written just a very quick pointer, the most lucrative (no exploits or grind required) thing I've found in the game is CZ's especially when allied to the local faction.

My corvette paid for itself and all modules through 2 wars my pet faction was in and about a week of dropping into any CZ where I already had lots of local rep, finding massacre missions for 20 million a pop is rare but will happen if you are returning for reloads and check the board each time. Two of them and you'll double your assets.

 

[joshman72nd]

yyyyaaaa no

your idea is terrible and you should feel bad.

15 seconds is fine maybe you should equip cascade torps? after all the target cant dodge them or anything while they wait for the menu count so they can at most drift one direction. again if its more than 15 seconds im yanking the cord at 15 cause thats the most time im willing to give and no i am not spoiling any ones fun since i stopped playing in open after seeing 8 of my attackers clear their bounty via suicide sidey and they dont face the consequences for their killing spree of joy we belong to the pilot federation you can play rever or pirate but lose the rebuy ability and have iron man forced on you(unless under contract from a faction to pirate another faction thats called being a privateer and is acceptable).

 

[Truesilver]

Can you outline where I even implied about logging?

Sorry G-H, it may be a misunderstanding or sloppy use of language on my part, or both.

I thought you were implying that by reason of attachment to their ship, a PvE guy might be justified in using a quit (whether FDev approved menu quit or impermissible disconnection) in order to save that ship via teleportation immortality handwavium when the physics of the game universe had otherwise determined that said ship was destined for destruction.

If so, I don't agree with that. A ship that should be destroyed should be destroyed.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

yyyyaaaa no

your idea is terrible and you should feel bad.

15 seconds is fine maybe you should equip cascade torps? after all the target cant dodge them or anything while they wait for the menu count so they can at most drift one direction. again if its more than 15 seconds im yanking the cord at 15 cause thats the most time im willing to give and no i am not spoiling any ones fun since i stopped playing in open after seeing 8 of my attackers clear their bounty via suicide sidey and they dont face the consequences for their killing spree of joy we belong to the pilot federation you can play rever or pirate but lose the rebuy ability and have iron man forced on you(unless under contract from a faction to pirate another faction thats called being a privateer and is acceptable).

Why should I fell bad Mr I know everything
...

BTW you quoted a loser, are you one?

 

[SaliVader]

Logging should be completely disabled when in combat. If Elite was server based, ideally your ship would stay floating in space if you logged out in combat (and the other player could destroy it with ease) but since Elite is p2p, this is the next best thing.

The lack of a karma system and combat logging (illegal or "legal", I don't care) are related and are both detrimental to the health of the game. FDev shouldn't just tackle one, they should adress both issues at the same time.