Would you people stop trying to impose your selective interpretation of immersion/RP/simulation onto others?
- Thread starter BurnyBurns
- Start date
Actually....
"Dumbing down the game" would only apply if you had no choice but to use the 'dumbed down' feature.
For example if FD said : "All ships now have docking computers and you CANNOT turn them off." That'd be dumbign down the game.
If FD said "All ships now have docking computers and you can turn them off." That'd be a QOL improvement.
But you are ignoring the effects it has on :
Powerplay
FSD meta
Ship roles (long range fighter Vs Short range fighter)
The BGS
You can not ignore a feature like that.
Because if I got lost 450LY away from ''home'' and I just want to get back , I will just magic in my ASP and get back.
And to me , thats removing a lot from the game. I would used to have to adapt to the current situation.
It makes the game more simple , dumbed down.
Before , if you wanted to bring a fighter to a far away system you had to get the beast there first.
Now the preperation phase is out , no longer do you bring multiroles to far away fights , you bring your A game no matter how far or near you are.
In a sense you no longer play a pilot , but a mouse cursor from a RTS.
I do find it a bit sad that immersion and Roleplay are considered non-argument these days and shouldn' play a role when designing a Game. Guess this is one of those "I'm getting old" moments...
... but chances are good I'm younger then some people telling me that, which at least makes it a funny moment
... but chances are good I'm younger then some people telling me that, which at least makes it a funny moment
If your idea of fun in ED is flying a short range ship a long way - I guess you have a bigger netflix backlog than I. There is nothing "hard" about it. It's tedious.
Next you'll tell me that grinding to Duke is also a "challenge"
Last edited:
Worse still, rather than people actually debating elements of the game, you are trying to group, segregate players based on your interpretations and personal bias.
Furthermore, immersion isn't this dirty word it's become in the last week. Immersion is the essence of any simulation. Don't play it up as if it's evil.
As for the whole ship transfer, it's not simply an immersion issue, gameplay issues are a major part. People have naturally cited, with good reason why they feel it CAN damage immersion for a player, and in many respects immersion and gameplay are inter-tied. If a ship starts to feel like an asset number in an inventory due to how the gameplay changes, that will break immersion for particular players. There's no suggestion it would damage it for anyone, but as soon as people don't have a voice because it can't be homogenous to every player, there's no point in talking.
Really, reactionary and finger-pointing threads really don't help at all. Some people have issue with certain elements, some don't. That's how it goes. However a LOT of people have an issue with ship-transfer for many reasons. If you don't, fine. If you want to build a guild or tent or whatever to exact that point, bully you. Doesn't change the fact a lot of loyal Elite players have legitimite issues that have been expressed and defined.
Immersion, as it stands, is a fascinating thing. I really don't like how it's being twisted since all Elite players use it to different degrees.
Beyond snark, "Guilds" don't work so far as there are different types of players but their habits, opinions and choices don't mix. The sad thing is when we start getting negative over all this. Some play Elite for more arcade reasons, others enjoy the simulation strategy, others the exploration. Some spend long hours, some spend short. But none of this is entirely separate.
What I've found fascinating about the ship transfer is it is exactly that - you're seeing many voices, voices I've seen disagree on past issues (myself included), all behind one particular issue. It's not a facet of a games forum complaining. It's not Role-play freaks, or Immersion Freaks, or Elite Hardcorers... it's different players from different walks, all with the same issue.
But not everyone. Something everyone should be able to deal with, but seemingly can't.
So, everything in my list of "convenience features" would be a-OK as long as there's an on/off switch in the options menu?
No it's not. It's your individual attitude. That's not the same thing at all.
I do think we'd all be much better off for it - but I've felt that way about forums and comments sections for a long time.
We all shut up, FDev make the game they want without having to accommodate our relentless griping, and we just get to choose whether we want to buy the game they made.
It would make things a lot easier.
OP, would you please stop trying to impose your selective interpretation of what's fun and should be in open to me ?
So, everything in my list of "convenience features" would be a-OK as long as there's an on/off switch in the options menu?
List of strawman features? Please you're listing massive game mechanic changes as convenience.
Like what Bomba luigi said ''I do find it a bit sad that immersion and Roleplay are considered non-argument these days and shouldn' play a role when designing a Game. Guess this is one of those "I'm getting old" moments...''
Lore and immersion as well as gameplay alone should be all you need to understand why this feature is not perfect.
My issue is this : Before when there was say a war in a far away system , you would look at all your ships (tools) and pick the right one for the job.
A war 200LYs away , well I will not use my Vulture for that. maybe I will use my combat ASP or a lighter viper? that is gone. now everyone will just use there A ship no matter what going on in the game.
Elite was advertised during kickstarter and alpha/beta as immersive , and built for role play. ship transfer goes against that.
The idea of elite is that its living in a science fiction universe , its slow because its slow for those who live in that universe.
Depth does not mean ''hard'' it just means depth. layers of gameplay that come into one to make an even better game
The transfer removes a few layers from the game. if you like that ; cool , I wish I coul
I have not done any military reserve ranking yet , as for 1 the current system is a placeholder and 2 there is no alliance reserve yet.
While many of the suggestions are straight-up jokes, some of them actually do hit really close on the arguments used for insta-transfer.
Ammo for example. Infinite ammo likely wouldn't be much more disruptive than insta-transfer, torpedoes aside. We even had a bug that introduced just that for a while. But if you ask me, I'd much rather be able to equip ammo racks, Battletech-style, than just throw ammo limits out the window.
The canopy is another one: losing canopy pretty much always happens entirely by accident, it's basically RNGsus saying "you're done, go back to base". We keep it because it's immersive and makes for fun stories.
Naval ranks are a big one: naval ranks lock a whole bunch of ships behind either years of gameplay or months of grind, for literally no reason except to facilitate immersion and roleplay. Naval ranks do need to be improved to be more sane and actually viable for combat pilots, but if we go with insta-transfer logic we should just nuke them from orbit instead.
The point here is that there is a better, more elegant way to do transfers, one that reaps most of the benefits while minimizing the downsides. Just making them instant because it's easier is a cop-out, and wouldn't be any better for the game than the "features" on that list.
What gets me is that its instant and at low cost.
As for ammo , it was bad they let the unlimited ammo bug stay in as long as it did and did not take creds off players who fell victim to this bug (like when they gave money to those who died to the AI)
The canopy however is based on hit points , if a weapon hits the front of the ship it does damage to your canopy.
Like you said , it makes for a good story , and ship transfer removes a lot of potential in that regard. you will only ever fly your best ship for that role instead of making a compromise based on what you are doing
This analogy isnt really correct. Those "highways" (wormholes, teleportation, etc.) are not yet discovered inside the game. This "highway" is placed by a deus ex machina totally out of consistancy within the gamelogic. It's your choice if you dont care about that fact or if you do find it chipping away some believability. Nethertheless its a fact that it's unlogical.
I'm grinding through naval ranks right now and I would literally rather have someone repeatedly kick me in the nuts this evening. The way it's implemented is an abomination.
In all seriousness, I don't like the idea of instant transfers, but I prefer it to not existing. Really what I'd want would be a way to 'disassemble' my ship for transfer and move it my self like you could move your own ships in EVE.
This is a good thread, Burny. Needed to be said. People seem to have lost their perspective.
The current military system is a placeholder.
I have no idea when they are going to give it some love , but as it stands its only there as a placeholder.
If they disassemble then the engineer mods and wear and tear need to be removed and then it would be ballanced.
But what gets me is : FD actualy had an alternate version with multiple options to pick within it. and they went with magic instead
Charming. I'd say on the same level as suggesting guild players to be fenced into a separate mode rather then enabling people with guild angst to join a guild free group. Even a little more classy maybe.
Thats the attitude we all ought to adapt as consumers of a mass market game. Our 40$ are the ones that count, everybody else ought to stick it!
Last edited:
As least with a dedicated mode you'd all perhaps be given larger instances to allow more people of group A to get together to do X in system Y. The tradeoff of that of course, is that you'll see fewer (or none) of people not in group A. If you are all in the same guild, you all want to be together, right?
If not, then what is the purpose of being in a guild?
I see a lot of discussion on how the insta-transfer will make it so everyone has 3 favorite ships. F:dev clearly stated that none of the numbers shown are balanced in anyway. I would assume, given no true credit sinks exist in the game, this will be one of our first major credit sinks. I also assume that MANY people will complain about whatever the balance is. But as far as people who are of like mind with the OP, I likely fall close to that camp. I don't care if they add it or not, however, I have started looking at how much time I spend during any given play session simply getting into the ship I want to fly and going to wherever it is that I want to do things, and to be honest, the time is prohibitive. So much so that often I spend an entire night just doing that. I don't feel that is very good gameplay with respect to just how much time you essentially spend on shipyard menus and FSD jumps.