The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Ian Doncaster]

Quite a few things seem to prefer nebulae. Out in Colonia, we have Electricae as well (to answer the question above, yes, they're much wider in reach than just Inner Orion Spur) ... and we also have the Umbrella Molluscs and other NSP lifeforms.

If the underlying explanation is some sort of "higher density of materials" in or near the visible nebulae - and of course supernova remnant nebulae might be particularly good for that - then it's perhaps not a surprise that lots of varied lifeforms show some preference for them. Possibly the meta-alloy processing can only be done efficiently there.

That might well indicate that Regor is the Guardian homeworlds, because they happened to evolve not near a nebula - and then like humans and maybe even Thargoids have placed pretty much all their other settlements near one for convenience - though humans have not yet figured out what to do with nebulae, other than where Thargoids have already established meta-alloy processing to steal from.




There is of course the Doylist consideration that anything Frontier wants to actually be found, if otherwise relatively rare in the galaxy, be that Guardian ruins or some NSP mollusc minding its own business, has a much better chance of being discovered if there's a visible-from-1000s-of-LY beacon encouraging explorers to visit the region.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Quite a few things seem to prefer nebulae. Out in Colonia, we have Electricae as well (to answer the question above, yes, they're much wider in reach than just Inner Orion Spur) ... and we also have the Umbrella Molluscs and other NSP lifeforms.

If the underlying explanation is some sort of "higher density of materials" in or near the visible nebulae - and of course supernova remnant nebulae might be particularly good for that - then it's perhaps not a surprise that lots of varied lifeforms show some preference for them. Possibly the meta-alloy processing can only be done efficiently there.

That might well indicate that Regor is the Guardian homeworlds, because they happened to evolve not near a nebula - and then like humans and maybe even Thargoids have placed pretty much all their other settlements near one for convenience - though humans have not yet figured out what to do with nebulae, other than where Thargoids have already established meta-alloy processing to steal from.




There is of course the Doylist consideration that anything Frontier wants to actually be found, if otherwise relatively rare in the galaxy, be that Guardian ruins or some NSP mollusc minding its own business, has a much better chance of being discovered if there's a visible-from-1000s-of-LY beacon encouraging explorers to visit the region.

Adding to this: I wasn't saying the nebulas are bad. But we need to be looking for younger, stable stars. There is a balancing act - not too near supernova and novas which can devastate life, stars which are neither too cold nor too hot, resources need to be plentiful. However, that isn't the whole story. Per "Alien World: A Complete Illustrated Guide" parts were built on airless worlds. There will be hubs based on system types, resouces, and how long the infrastructure has to last. In theory, if this follows Holdstock, the ultimate goal was centered around a globular cluster.

Raxxla is likely big. Consider that we may well have found components. Look at the bigger picture.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Forgot to mention Cete is an interesting choice of name and associated with the Andromeda myths... "Mother of Galaxies" hypotheses mentioned previously a few times... just a thought

FYI, the Cete is a reference to Cetacean (whales), Herman Melville wrote Moby . <-- this word is being auto censored apparently, you all know what it is.

The Guardian 'truth' is our Melville's white whale (it killed him in the end after he became obsessed and endangered his crew, etc. etc.)

 

[Louis Calvert]

If you are looking at wolf-rayets you are seeing where Guardians used to live but not how the system was at the time. Wolf-rayets are too hot to support life.

I don't know anything about WR stars, but the Guardian History tells us this:

"Their earliest records tell of a great upheaval caused by climate change, and although the exact cause isn’t recorded, there are references to a dimming of the sun. Whatever the cause, the effect was a drop in global temperature."

Does the above tie in with anything known about WR stars? If not, then WR stars probably aren't important to Guardians based on biology. If it does, then that's more supporting evidence.

That might well indicate that Regor is the Guardian homeworlds, because they happened to evolve not near a nebula - and then like humans and maybe even Thargoids have placed pretty much all their other settlements near one for convenience - though humans have not yet figured out what to do with nebulae, other than where Thargoids have already established meta-alloy processing to steal from.

Good points, all. I don't think there's currently any Lore that supports Regor being the Guardians origin point, and I do think there's minor support for is not being, but you make a good point.

Which nebula(s) do you think might have been the one(s) that sparked the Guardian-Thargoid conflict, since there aren't any of significance near the Regor sector?

"Tens of thousands of years earlier, when the Guardians were still a non-spacefaring race, a group of Thargoids entered what would later become Guardians space looking for new systems to colonise. In addition to earmarking several systems containing ammonia worlds, they prepared a number of planets for occupation by seeding them with barnacles."

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Does the above tie in with anything known about WR stars?

Not obviously, quite the opposite - WR stars are incredibly bright, especially in the ultraviolet, and the majority are supergiant stars burning rapidly towards a supernova stage. They shouldn't last anywhere near long enough for life to evolve around them - though Regor probably did exist when the Guardians were about, maybe at a pre-WR supergiant stage of its life.

Which nebula(s) do you think might have been the one(s) that sparked the Guardian-Thargoid conflict, since there aren't any of significance near the Regor sector?

Tricky one. Elite Dangerous probably ignores long-term relative motion of stars: a civilisation which settled a smallish sphere two million years ago could find its ruins spread across thousands of LY by now, and Regor - and its accompanying semi-gravitationally-bound stars - might have been nowhere near them at the time. Similarly nebulae aren't in reality necessarily all that long-lived - Barnard's Loop itself is thought to be the remnant of a supernova explosion about 2 million years ago - at the time of the Guardians it might either not have existed at all, or been just a compact supernova remnant ... and many of the nebulae around then may have dispersed into the galactic background since.

Ignoring all of that and assuming the galaxy then and now were actually the same, though, one of the battle sites is in the Orion nebula complex which may have been where the conflict took place, and the other is (very vaguely) positioned between the Cone Nebula and Regor - perhaps to aid in interception or monitoring of Thargoids heading for Regor itself.

(The battle sites are of course a bit weird: the Guardian part of the site functions perfectly normally, suggesting that it "won" the battle or was recaptured and repaired afterwards ... but the Guardians apparently never bothered to clean up all the Thargoid wreckage around them. It's quite possible that lots of other Guardian sites were the site of battles with the Thargoids, but were maintained afterwards so it's not obvious nowadays. On that basis it could be any outlying Guardian nebula settlement area...)

 

[Emperor]

FYI, the Cete is a reference to Cetacean (whales), Herman Melville wrote Moby . <-- this word is being auto censored apparently, you all know what it is.

The Guardian 'truth' is our Melville's white whale (it killed him in the end after he became obsessed and endangered his crew, etc. etc.)

Interesting!

I was referring to this from Wikipedia

"In Ancient Greek ketos (κῆτος, plural kete/ketea, κήτη/κήτεα[1]), Latinized as cetus (pl. ceti or cete = cetea[2]), is any huge sea monster.[3] According to the mythology, Perseus slew a cetus to save Andromeda from being sacrificed to it. The term cetacean (for whale) derives from cetus. In Greek art, ceti were depicted as serpentine fish. The name of the mythological figure Ceto is derived from kētos. The name of the constellation Cetus also derives from this word."

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

I don't know anything about WR stars, but the Guardian History tells us this:


Does the above tie in with anything known about WR stars? If not, then WR stars probably aren't important to Guardians based on biology. If it does, then that's more supporting evidence.

Wolf-rayets are the hottest stars in the entire Universe. If one is present in a system with Guardian stuff, they left centuries to millions of years before it got that way.

How hot are the hottest stars in the Universe?

At their cores, stars can reach many millions or even billions of degrees. But even that doesn't touch the hottest of all.

bigthink.com

Wolf–Rayet star - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

though Regor probably did exist when the Guardians were about, maybe at a pre-WR supergiant stage of its life.

Thus, the importance of asymptotic giant branch evolution. Most of Pleiades region consists of these same stars at varying ages and stages of evolution. If a system has Technetium, it was created by S-process nucleosythesis in asymptotic giant branch stars.

Asymptotic giant branch - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

s-process - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Isotopes of technetium - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

(The battle sites are of course a bit weird: the Guardian part of the site functions perfectly normally, suggesting that it "won" the battle or was recaptured and repaired afterwards ... but the Guardians apparently never bothered to clean up all the Thargoid wreckage around them. It's quite possible that lots of other Guardian sites were the site of battles with the Thargoids, but were maintained afterwards so it's not obvious nowadays. On that basis it could be any outlying Guardian nebula settlement area...)

It's awfully hard to lose when both sides are the same species (well other than having your society destroyed). Either these are the same species or one evolved into a slightly different version. Oresrians look like Thargoids. Coincidence? Doubtful.

Humans are either a species bio-engineered by Thargoids/Oresrians or we got along so splendidly that some humans are hybrids between the two or androids. See the Undine myths ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undine ).

 

[selbie]

Decided to reconstruct the codex logos while my brain processes things. The scan lines in the image proved to be very helpful to warp the original perspective fairly accurately.

Spoiler: Codex Logos!

To the jewel that burns!

 

[Emperor]

According to what we know, the Guardians were an already established spacefaring race with advanced FTL tech by the time the Thargoids started the war. It's suggested (though not explicitly stated) that the Guardians did discover Barnacles (much as we did), but it's unclear if they used them, and it's explicitly clear they already had FTL before expanding past their home system.

So from the Cannon site....

Guardians Data – History | Canonn Research Group

History Summary A sudden climate cooling early in the Guardians’ history meant these nomadic pack-hunters were forced to settle and develop tools and shelters. They swiftly domesticated animals for food, and had a remarkable understanding of inherited traits. This soon developed into...

canonn.science

"History 12: This data is incredible. The information regarding the Guardians first attempts at space travel are particularly interesting. Although the Guardians clearly had the capacity for sophisticated flight technology, they had not built anything more advanced than dirigibles, no doubt because airships were more in keeping with their ecologically conscientious philosophy. With rocket technology deemed environmentally unfriendly, they developed vast launchers that used electro-magnectic propulsion to catapult ships into space. Breathable gel cocoons helped pilots and passengers withstand the huge G-forces experienced on launch, and served as hibernation pods during long journeys. Having not yet developed faster-than-light technology, the Guardians constructed three large arks for their first interstellar colonies. Much like the Generation ships in our own history.

History 13: This data is extremely exciting commander. contained in this package is information regarding the guardians use of Faster Than Light Communication. Almost the entirety of the guardians’ society was devoted to researching interstellar travel and communication. A breakthrough in faster-than-light communication was made before the arks reached their destinations, but the information was transmitted to the arks while they were still in transit, allowing the colonists to establish faster-than-light communications when they landed. Consequently the interstellar network was developed extremely quickly. The arks kept the population at a manageable level long enough for the guardians to develop Hyperspace technology, which fueled their expansion into the galaxy. The project also cemented the cooperative city-state model, which would serve the Guardians until their ultimate demise."

Rough Timeline Sort of...
The Guardian home world/civilisation was heading for strife due to over population...

"they had not built anything more advanced than dirigibles, no doubt because airships were more in keeping with their ecologically conscientious philosophy" - They have airships and not much else....

"With rocket technology deemed environmentally unfriendly, they developed vast launchers that used electro-magnectic propulsion to catapult ships into space." - They didn't want to limit the population and cause issues at home so they go for space travel and colonisation of other worlds to keep their population down and develop their catapults for their initial space travel, I presume to other planets in their system as the pods don't sound like interstellar traveling vehicles and they go on below to mention interstellar colonies and arks....

"Having not yet developed faster-than-light technology, the Guardians constructed three large arks for their first interstellar colonies. Much like the Generation ships in our own history." - I presume they built these arks whilst in space rather than firing a massive space ship from the ground. And I guess they would head for the closest systems with planets they could inhabit... (Hopefully you're not on the B-Ark.... sorry couldn't resist it! ). Perhaps the planets they were looking for are commonly found in nebulas... who knows...

"Almost the entirety of the guardians’ society was devoted to researching interstellar travel and communication. A breakthrough in faster-than-light communication was made before the arks reached their destinations, but the information was transmitted to the arks while they were still in transit, allowing the colonists to establish faster-than-light communications when they landed." - So any discoveries when they arrived on the new worlds could be sent back to the home world in a short space of time (Like discovering Thargoid technology? Which is where the Nebula cross-over might have occurred?)

"The arks kept the population at a manageable level long enough for the guardians to develop Hyperspace technology, which fuelled their expansion into the galaxy." - So they sent more arks out to colonise other systems until they suddenly developed Hyperspace technology ;-) .... now could that have been on the back of discovering weird Thargoid stuff (Barnacle sites, etc).... And "into the galaxy sounds like in all directions"?

Then some time later the Thargoids pop back to check on their gardening and find all the meta alloys have been nicked and squatters have moved in....?

Edit: Additional thought, if they did discover Tharg stuff in a nebula early on they may have then searched other nebula for more stuff to nick?

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

By the way, the reason there are no ships other than Interceptors is the following:

• Winners don't leave destroyed ships especially if they are feared by everyone else.
• The Raxxlans were represented as giant reptilians. What are snakes ? Legless Reptiles. Those battles were the Raxxlans against another species or against themselves. Who has snake ships? Humans. Take a guess at who the Raxxlans really are.
• The Dark Wheel legends tells of species so universally feared that no one dared to challenge them.

 

[Emperor]

Nebulae?​

What's weird about this, now @Emperor pointed out nebula and it made me think about it... (and I think your point about Nebulae being related to the Toast is possible too )

"To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies!
To the whisperer in witchspace, the siren of the deepest void!
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts.
To Raxxla!
— Alleged toast of the Dark Wheel"

Mother of Galaxies... Which came first the Chicken or the Egg, or in this case the Stars or the Galaxies? (Protostars at the very beginning....)

Where are stars born.... Stellar Nurseries in Nebulas generally? - the Mother of stars and therefore galaxies?
Where's the nearest?

"The Orion Nebula, also known as Messier 42 (M42) or NGC 1976, is one of the most famous and easily recognisable celestial objects in the night sky. It is located in the constellation Orion and is visible to the naked eye as a hazy patch of light just below Orion's Belt.

Here are some key facts about the Orion Nebula:

1. Location: The Orion Nebula is situated about 1,344 light-years away from Earth, making it one of the closest stellar nurseries to our solar system.
2. Nebula Type: It is a diffuse emission nebula, meaning it is a cloud of gas and dust that emits its own light. Specifically, it is a part of a much larger molecular cloud complex called the Orion Molecular Cloud Complex.
3. Stellar Nursery: The Orion Nebula is a region of active star formation, where new stars are being born. Within the nebula, there are numerous young, hot stars called protostars, which are in the process of accumulating mass from the surrounding gas and dust. These young stars are surrounded by glowing gas and can be seen as the bright points of light within the nebula."

Other than references to Orion as a jewel and the nebula itself.... are there any other shiny things above the nebula?

Alnilam?

Just a thought!

 

[Emperor]

"To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies!
To the whisperer in witchspace, the siren of the deepest void!
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts.
To Raxxla!
— Alleged toast of the Dark Wheel"

Nebulae?​

Carrying on this mad thought of a theme... Where could the next Nebula be?

"To the whisperer in witchspace, the siren of the deepest void!"

So if we assume "whisperer in witchspace, the siren" are Thargoids.....

Do they hang out in Dark Nebulas? (Barnard 68's void is often confused with Bootes void for some reason!)

Dark nebula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of dark nebulae - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Thargoids | Canonn Research Group

The Return of the Thargoids Introduction The Thargoid Ship is an alien vessel of confirmed origin. Examples of this alien ship were first encountered on January 5, 3303; Commanders were interdicted by Thargoid Ships while travelling through hyperspace and pulled into deep space with their...

canonn.science

Over recent years Thargoids have re-appeared in several nearby nebulae – first the Pleiades, then California, Witch Head and finally the Coalsack. Non Human Signal Sources can be seen when in supercruise within a range of each nebula (the distance varies between the nebulea, and also changes over time occasionally).

Centres of the nebulae, and current radii:

• Pleiades: Maia 65Ly - Reflection nebula
• California: California Sector BA-A e6 60Ly - "The California Nebula (NGC 1499/Sh2-220) is an emission nebula located in the constellation Perseus."
• Witch Head: Witch Head Sector IR-W c1-8 75Ly - Reflection nebula
• Coalsack: Musca Dark Region PJ-P b6-1 55Ly - "The Coalsack Nebula (Southern Coalsack, or simply the Coalsack)[3] is a dark nebula, which is visible to the naked eye as a dark patch obscuring part of the Milky Way east of Acrux (Alpha Crucis) in the constellation of Crux." - YUP!

Just a thought!

 

[Emperor]

"Place that is not a place, door that is also the key"

Carina Nebula - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Keyhole Nebula​

The Keyhole Nebula is a dark nebulosity superimposed on the brightest part of the Carina Nebula.
The Keyhole, or Keyhole Nebula, is a small dark cloud of cold molecules and dust within the Carina Nebula, containing bright filaments of hot, fluorescing gas, silhouetted against the much brighter background nebula. John Herschel used the term "lemniscate-oval vacuity" when first describing it, and subsequently referred to it simply as the "oval vacuity". The term lemniscate continued to be used to describe this portion of the nebula until popular astronomy writer Emma Converse described the shape of the nebula as "resembling a keyhole" in an 1873 Appleton's Journal article. The name Keyhole Nebula then came into common use, sometimes for the Keyhole itself, sometimes to describe the whole of the Carina Nebula (signifying "the nebula that contains the Keyhole").

The diameter of the Keyhole structure is approximately seven light-years (2.1 pc). Its appearance has changed significantly since it was first observed, possibly due to changes in the ionizing radiation from Eta Carinae. The Keyhole does not have its own NGC designation. It is sometimes erroneously called NGC 3324, but that catalogue designation refers to a reflection and emission nebula just northwest of the Carina Nebula (or to its embedded star cluster).

"The Keyhole does not have its own NGC designation" - "Place that is not a place"

Just a thought!

 

[El Saico]

Oh, seems like all real-life nebulae present in the game are listed on the wiki: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Nebula

Also the Elysian Shore region is starting to look increasingly suspicious - at least four nebulae from the Cassiopeia constellation (mother of galaxies and all that) are located there: Bubble, NGC 281 (AKA Pacman Nebula, visible close to Schedar) and the Heart and Soul duo.

 

[SergMx]

Interesting!

I was referring to this from Wikipedia

"In Ancient Greek ketos (κῆτος, plural kete/ketea, κήτη/κήτεα[1]), Latinized as cetus (pl. ceti or cete = cetea[2]), is any huge sea monster.[3] According to the mythology, Perseus slew a cetus to save Andromeda from being sacrificed to it. The term cetacean (for whale) derives from cetus. In Greek art, ceti were depicted as serpentine fish. The name of the mythological figure Ceto is derived from kētos. The name of the constellation Cetus also derives from this word."

For some reason I always thought it wasn't a whale but a kraken, basically a large octopus ... What does a big octopus look like?

 

[Han_Zen]

FYI, the Cete is a reference to Cetacean (whales), Herman Melville wrote Moby . <-- this word is being auto censored apparently, you all know what it is.

The Guardian 'truth' is our Melville's white whale (it killed him in the end after he became obsessed and endangered his crew, etc. etc.)

We also have good old Ishmael Palin. Ishmael is of course the name of the first person narrator in the Moby D story.

 

[Emperor]

We also have good old Ishmael Palin. Ishmael is of course the name of the first person narrator in the Moby D story.

You are far better read than I

 

[Han_Zen]

You are far better read than I

This is old stuff. Check out the Wings release trailer:
Wings Trailer

First time we meet Cmdr Ishmael (Palin), a Jameson (Perhaps Lori?) and the elusive Unknown artefact.