Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.

[Markov Chaney]

It's funny how cmdrs are adamant that 10-20ly is the maximum and yet Frontier are pretty happy to start with 10 and increase if needed.

Maybe they know something all the armchair experts don't.

We're going with a decade of evidence that this game was originally designed around a 20ly range and multiple incredibly significant pieces of content and even new game engines where this was not addressed. And it was not addressed in PP 2.0 either.

I don't know why they chose 10 specifically. I do know why they chose a number under 20 specifically.

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

It's funny how cmdrs are adamant that 10-20ly is the maximum and yet Frontier are pretty happy to start with 10 and increase if needed.

Maybe they know something all the armchair experts don't.

In true FDev fashion I expect beta increases from 10 to 11, 11 to 12, 12 to 13 and so on.

Only to end up back at 10 at release due to a bug, or poor version control

 

[kofeyh]

We're going with a decade of evidence that this game was originally designed around a 20ly range and multiple incredibly significant pieces of content and even new game engines where this was not addressed. And it was not addressed in PP 2.0 either.

I don't know why they chose 10 specifically. I do know why they chose a number under 20 specifically.

It's okay, wait till people realise, that if they don't start on the very edge of the bubble, no matter how hard they try, they won't be able to escape it.

Unless frontier supports multiple different locations and not just 'the bubble', commanders who start closer to the centre are going to find they can't expand past people who started at the fringes (which are almost certainly going to be the most popular place to start).

Being stuck in the bubble for an indeterminate period. Potentially years. How exciting.

The only thing that probably helps is that I can't imagine too many are going to bother with more than one system, let alone hundreds. So there's that, I guess.

Also, at 20 ly, colonisation can only go so far out, before distances between stars prevent further expansion. That happens much sooner at 10 ly. The bubble is already large enough the gaps between stars become noticeable.

Colonia has much better potential, ironically. Star density is excellent.

 

[Jmanis]

The BGS needing some work, should not be a reason to entrench 10ly as the range. Frontier itself has said they're starting at that point and would see how it lands.

Of all the reasons to look at the BGS rules, colonisation is probably one of the better ones.

And i look forward to all the precious tears as they break a host of the regular runs people do in the process.

Be careful what you wish for

 

[Flimley]

I would like to be suitably far from the bubble. Easy to visit distance, but just far enough to keep out the riff-raff.


Flimley

 

[kofeyh]

And i look forward to all the precious tears as they break a host of the regular runs people do in the process.

Be careful what you wish for

That's a pretty unhelpful take, to be honest. I have no desire to see cmdrs have a poor experience, and wishing that on others seems unnecessary.

I would simply encourage Frontier to consider if 10 ly is really the experience they want to go for, given that will severely limit where cmdrs can go and how far out colonisation can get to (hint: not very far if the bubble is the starting point).

 

[Alien]

Unless frontier supports multiple different locations and not just 'the bubble', commanders who start closer to the centre are going to find they can't expand past people who started at the fringes (which are almost certainly going to be the most popular place to start).

But almost all the stations in the bubble will have a system colonization contact ... so I'm not sure what you think will restrict people.

 

[aRJay]

I did some maths on the time it would take to Colonise out at Sag A* if a player plays every single week and is a regular gamer...

10ly - 77 years
20ly - 34 years
40ly - 16 years

Frontier did say with colonisation we could spread out into the galaxy. Do you see my point? That's more grind than I want to deal with

So is that assuming a minimum of 1 week for each stage of the process?

1. Plant and prove up beacon
2. Constructor arrives and gets loaded
3. Prime station is built
4. Assets get placed
5. Assets get built
6. System is capable of launching new colony

 

[kofeyh]

But almost all the stations in the bubble will have a system colonization contact ... so I'm not sure what you think will restrict people.

If you want to colonise on behalf of a specific faction, you will need to get the beacon from that faction. If they are in the middle of the bubble, then you can only start 10ly from that factions system. So in the middle of the bubble. Which will be expanding around you.

If you want to try and push out past the edge of the bubble, then it requires picking a random faction based on location. Fine for me, but it may not be fine for everyone else.

Also, at the current 10ly, there will already be stars that one cannot reach, irrespective of which faction is chosen, as the distance between stars can in some cases exceed 10ly, even in the bubble.

Remember, a location to colonise can only be within 10ly of the nearest system with that faction present.

People are used to 20-30 ly+ and forget how far 10 ly isn't.

 

[aRJay]

That's semantics and frankly a conceit used to justify a single point of view. If it's in the game and there's a story to it, then it's part of the BGS. What about the INRA bases out deep in the black from during and after the first Thargoid war? Are you gonna try and tell me that these aren't part of the BGS?

I would say they were part of the lore or history rather than the BackGround Simulation which is about economic states and local politics.

I think Frontier have missed a huge opportunity here to reintroduce player factions, allow these factions to control systems, and perhaps even to eventually allow the larger factions to appear within PowerPlay.

Maybe but as they have only just stopped new PMFs being added to the game I am not sure that was where they wanted the game to go.

 

[kofeyh]

So is that assuming a minimum of 1 week for each stage of the process?

1. Plant and prove up beacon
2. Constructor arrives and gets loaded
3. Prime station is built
4. Assets get placed
5. Assets get built
6. System is capable of launching new colony

1 week for the entire cycle. Suspect if it takes 2-3 weeks for a complete loop, an entire generation of cmdrs could be born, live an entire lifetime of building stations, then pass on and still not have gotten to Sag A* or anywhere else of merit.

 

[aRJay]

Why even start at 10ly if pragmatically it's essentially unworkable outside of starting at Colonia.

On the contrary, I think Frontier just threw out a number, 10 is a nice round one, and they probably haven't actually got to the point in the development cycle where that range starts to have a bearing on the mechanics.

As soon as they do, 10 ly will expose some issues around where people can start from, and potentially exclude any number of existing factions based on relative distances between stars, and we will hopefully see some more reasonable numbers quoted.

Ten because it’s the tenth anniversary.

 

[angusmadmac1]

I'm just waiting for the cries when people realise the amount of materials required when you look at the requirements for fixing thargoid attacked space stations . Unless they make it easier for everyone ...

 

[Knuttin Atoll]

1 week for the entire cycle. Suspect if it takes 2-3 weeks for a complete loop, an entire generation of cmdrs could be born, live an entire lifetime of building stations, then pass on and still not have gotten to Sag A* or anywhere else of merit.

Honestly, at the current state of what we know, it feels a little like Frontier are gaslighting us somewhat when they imply that deep space colonisation is technically possible via daisy-chaining 10LY at a time (due to BGS/PP requirements 30LY is probably best case unless they change their minds on that).

And yet, at least some of the player base is like

 

[aRJay]

I would like to be suitably far from the bubble. Easy to visit distance, but just far enough to keep out the riff-raff.


Flimley

Tricky that given modern jump ranges.

 

[Narfiam]

Someone could consider what I'm going to say extremely trivial. But one of the features I would like to see is letting us edit the appearance of the NPC in the station panel. I would be upset if I create a new starport and seeing that the NPC of the controlling faction being the average ugly randomly generated NPC 60 years old man with white eyebrows and orange hair.

 

[Kayvan]

Seeing how restrictive even the current PP2.0 restrictions play out, where for instance an US has to be within 30LY of an SS, I predict that 10LY will be utterly unworkable. I mean, with the current rules it already happens that you only have a single qualifying system within 30LY, and if that single system isn't suitable for your purposes, it's tough luck. Now try playing around a bit with Inara to see which kinds of systems are within LY of each other, especially near the frontier of the Bubble.

So I guess they'll have to expand the colonization radius to at least 30LY.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

100% this. If FD went over 20LY, my schadenfreude awaits the flurry of "Why does all this stuff not work in my colony!" complaints.

These limits have been in the game since inception... people only notice it when the next update or FOTM thing suffers for it.. but that's what happens when you build on unstable foundations.

I don't understand. What exactly is going to break if the range for system colonisation goes over 20ly at a time? From what I see there are plenty of isolated pockets of civilisation already that seems to be doing just fine. What's the difference?

 

[Pville_Piper]

You folks are forgetting the jump range your first ship had. It was under 10 ly. Most transports wont have a massive jump range so trading would be hindered(BGS wise). I think 500ly would be a good colonization range but that would have to be daisy chained to the bubble so cargo transports can have refueling stations along the way. IDK what do you think?

No, we have fuel scoops...

I'm already envisioning it: 500 ARX for each added lightyear.

No, just no. Not arx for this.

I think there is also practical reasons for 10LY as opposed to 100LY or 500LY

Well they need to explain the reason. It just seems too low in a game that average ship can easily jump +20ly.

My personal opinion is they need 2 types of expansions one for players/groups who want to expand their power or their faction territory and influence and another for exploration and distant colonization.

Either way both need to be accessible to the solo player. If you make it group or squadron only it will fail.

Personally, with a 10 ly limit, this is already looking like a failed feature. Just trying to find a system that is 10ly away from a station with a faction you want to be associated with is very limiting.

 

[Markov Chaney]

I don't understand. What exactly is going to break if the range for system colonisation goes over 20ly at a time? From what I see there are plenty of isolated pockets of civilisation already that seems to be doing just fine. What's the difference?

On the stream, FDev explicitly said that colonisation is integrated with BGS and PP 2.0. (And do you have an example of a system with factions which is not within 20ly of another system with factions?)