Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.

[Rubbernuke]

Thing is, with a bigger range, it can be interesting for both. For powers to take over more systems in their own and bordering space and for those who want long range colonization.

Maybe there should be some limits/limitations, so it isn't just a race to claim all the most interesting far-flung systems in the first week, but they need to be reachable in a reasonable time.

For a power, you want as many expansions as possible to bump up numbers, so having it cheap close in makes sense but does not shackle those who want to go for broke.

Also, it makes saving up in a prep phase part of things too- so an explorer would come back with billions, sell those billions for a claim and go on out, or that you'd have a stint becoming a cargo monkey and eventual tycoon to fund it all (drawing in other disciplines).

 

[Kzak]

There are trillionaires in this game.

Indeed, but the gameplay should not be centered around trillionaires.

 

[John Xenir]

Sorry, I just got back from a long break some two weeks back, and I've glanced over news regarding colonization, but what is this 10Ly value? 10Ly away from what, Sol?

 

[CMDR Daiyus]

Sorry, I just got back from a long break some two weeks back, and I've glanced over news regarding colonization, but what is this 10Ly value? 10Ly away from what, Sol?

10 Ly away from where you buy the Colonisation Beacon from a Colonisation Contact. Initially Colonisation Contacts will only be available in the Bubble. There will be a public beta of the feature though, and some values are up for discussion.

Once you've established the first starport in your new colony, a Colonisation Contact will appear on said station, allowing you to buy another beacon and place it up to 10 Ly from the new colony, allowing daisy-chaining, slowly, into the black.

 

[John Xenir]

Thanks! Not sure if that's the final value they aimed at, maybe it was only in the context of the beta.
It's hard to imagine 10 Ly being the final value, all while we have Colonia out there, with surface bases - who colonized that, lore-wise?
Then again wouldn't be the first time logic, lore and technicalities flew in each others faces in ED.
I guess we'll have to wait and see, and my Martian Valley Views base will have to wait a bit longer

 

[Don Alvarez]

For a power, you want as many expansions as possible to bump up numbers, so having it cheap close in makes sense but does not shackle those who want to go for broke.

Also, it makes saving up in a prep phase part of things too- so an explorer would come back with billions, sell those billions for a claim and go on out, or that you'd have a stint becoming a cargo monkey and eventual tycoon to fund it all (drawing in other disciplines).

Just had an odd notion of the powers expanding into little spheres outside the bubble like a ball on a string. There are plenty of as yet unacquired populated systems within the bubble, but instead of engaging in the simulated conflict over them all the powers suddenly begin colonizing safely away from it.

 

[Alezander Corben]

low but perfect

 

[Mr Lindsay]

I understand people wanting to extend the range, but if you want to extend the range by a lot much then the corollary with that is you almost certainly have to expect that colonisation mechanics would be completely detached from Power Play and BGS mechanics and have zero interaction with them anywhere.

Alternatively, the entire BGS and Power Play system would have to change to cover the same range, and good luck managing that in the Bubble.
As they've already talked about the 10 ly being a test, I can see that doubling to 20, but not the 200, or 20,000+ some people are looking for.

The big thing will be if they open it up so that Colonia and the other odd places out there can become starting points. I think that's the biggest concession that the players wanting distant systems can expect, and I think it'd be a fair one, with the way the system has been described.

 

[K Olley]

I understand people wanting to extend the range, but if you want to extend the range by a lot much then the corollary with that is you almost certainly have to expect that colonisation mechanics would be completely detached from Power Play and BGS mechanics and have zero interaction with them anywhere.

That sounds good to me, a self sustaining group of stations starting with a small agricultural then a mining and processing plant and then expand out from there.

Alternatively, the entire BGS and Power Play system would have to change to cover the same range, and good luck managing that in the Bubble.
As they've already talked about the 10 ly being a test, I can see that doubling to 20, but not the 200, or 20,000+ some people are looking for.

No thank you, a totally independent system with the ability to expand or die under its own.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I understand people wanting to extend the range, but if you want to extend the range by a lot much then the corollary with that is you almost certainly have to expect that colonisation mechanics would be completely detached from Power Play and BGS mechanics and have zero interaction with them anywhere.

Alternatively, the entire BGS and Power Play system would have to change to cover the same range, and good luck managing that in the Bubble.
As they've already talked about the 10 ly being a test, I can see that doubling to 20, but not the 200, or 20,000+ some people are looking for.

The big thing will be if they open it up so that Colonia and the other odd places out there can become starting points. I think that's the biggest concession that the players wanting distant systems can expect, and I think it'd be a fair one, with the way the system has been described.

Absoloutely fine with me. I don't think most people want to colonize because of the BGS or PP.

Technically speaking though, not disconnected from the BGS. BGS would still work with the one faction that gets installed by default based on the supplying faction. It will just sit there with a constant state of none or perhaps expansions that continuously fail as there is nowhere to expand to.

Now, if a mini-bubble was created, with construction beacons from different factions, then those factions would expand into other nearby systems.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I understand people wanting to extend the range, but if you want to extend the range by a lot much then the corollary with that is you almost certainly have to expect that colonisation mechanics would be completely detached from Power Play and BGS mechanics and have zero interaction with them anywhere.

It just means that Powers will expand for powers and those who want to go far out can- the two groups won't really overlap (something that some would welcome).

The big question is really who is colonization for? Powerplay wants it for conquest, explorers want it for doing stuff far away. Having it for Powerplay has a flaw in that it lessens the need to attack others (if the process is fairly rapid) because you don't have to compete.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

How many though, compared to the median? Also unlocking distance via credits is just the start of the process, not the end.

Enough to be annoying. Especially to Frontier.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

"We've got a long way to go, and a short time to get there..."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u1Kzcs-z3c

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Indeed, but the gameplay should not be centered around trillionaires.

Not saying that. Just that they can screw things up on a massive scale.

Note: The 100 LY Adder Taxi Limit might be in play.

 

[Easy]

I don't think a specific number for expansion from the current bubble is he issue. 10 ly or 1 ly. What matters is how long it will take to purchase a new colonization beacon from an established player base.

If that is an extreme credit and materials gate, or is defined to never happen, then the value becomes an issue.

If it is the case that new beacons can be purchased from player bases with reasonable gates to pass, the expansion for motivated groups of players could be very rapid and look like a series of highways burning outward from the bubble.

I'd be very interested to see FDEVs modeling on this, pretty looking evolving heat maps I'd bet.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I think there's a logical reason for starting at 10Ly, although I do expect this to go up during Beta, but not beyond PP2.0/BGS ranges. I have a theory that Cocijo is being placed in the central Bubble to bring Thargoids as a permanent, PvE faction to interact with PP2.0. This would have multiple benefits, including keeping AX combat alive "post-war".

Due to this idea, I also think that the Colonisation expansion distances are being tuned as a balancing act against how fast the Thargoids can expand their territory, giving us two fronts to deal with the bugs; on one side we actively fight them back and keep them hemmed in, on the other, we expand the Bubble away from their space. If we were able to Colonise over massive distances, we'd simply create a new Bubble as far away from the current one as possible.

i think you're on to something. Earth, colonized with Thargoid-modded humans?

 

[Don Alvarez]

Absoloutely fine with me. I don't think most people want to colonize because of the BGS or PP.

I think alot of squadrons that operate a PMF would love expanding it outside the bubble. I'd argue its most explorers that don't really care one way of the other about the BGS or PP

Technically speaking though, not disconnected from the BGS. BGS would still work with the one faction that gets installed by default based on the supplying faction. It will just sit there with a constant state of none or perhaps expansions that continuously fail as there is nowhere to expand to.

Well lets discuss that a moment, because colonization represents a huge effort. The origin system would have to employ thousands, or tens of thousands of laborers to accomplish it, or maybe source colonists from elsewhere. Its reasonable they'd all bring their politics with them, in which case the target system could get a carbon copy of factions from the origin system, or procedurally generate 4 or 5 new ones to round out the new colony. Either way you're right, there's no need for a BGS disconnect because expansion rules allow for expansion failure in the case of no valid targets. Ideally though, you wouldn't want a single faction to just sit in never-ending expansion. You'd want additional factions to create some dynamic gameplay within the new system - wars and faction states that create varying mission and trade opportunity.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I think alot of squadrons that operate a PMF would love expanding it outside the bubble. I'd argue its most explorers that don't really care one way of the other about the BGS or PP

Yes, that's what I'd like to do, be able to expand our PMF into any new systems we colonized. Trying to get our PMF out to the edge of the bubble then expand outwards 10 LY at time, is basically an impossible task for us.

Well lets discuss that a moment, because colonization represents a huge effort. The origin system would have to employ thousands, or tens of thousands of laborers to accomplish it, or maybe source colonists from elsewhere. Its reasonable they'd all bring their politics with them, in which case the target system could get a carbon copy of factions from the origin system, or procedurally generate 4 or 5 new ones to round out the new colony. Either way you're right, there's no need for a BGS disconnect because expansion rules allow for expansion failure in the case of no valid targets. Ideally though, you wouldn't want a single faction to just sit in never-ending expansion. You'd want additional factions to create some dynamic gameplay within the new system - wars and faction states that create varying mission and trade opportunity.

I suppose FD could make it so the system has the initial controlling faction based on who you buy the beacon from, then generate some additional factions to exist in the system. We will have to see what FD decide to do about that. Personally, i wouldn't care. If just my faction was there, its cool.

 

[pmejna]

On my opinion 10ly is ridiculously low. Why? I did an experiment and quickly made a ~10ly ship build. I went to an edge of populated area. Guess what? A ton of populated systems on the edges (also within the bubble) which border stars - no systems with planets. Not only that - those stars up to 10ly away from populated systems also often border just a stars. I think that 20-30ly would be a reasonable minimum. It would keep players within the bubble area. And daisy chaining wouldn't be quick. This would also eliminate situations when players would literally colonize systems and move next just to daisy chain. A lot of players would like to colonize with purpose. To be able to choose interesting systems with some planets on to build real settlements/economy, pick amazing locations and share their joy with other players. Try to limit your ship to 10ly and see how for you get and how many systems will be literally locked out from the start

 

[Ralph Vargr]

On my opinion 10ly is ridiculously low. Why? I did an experiment and quickly made a ~10ly ship build. I went to an edge of populated area. Guess what? A ton of populated systems on the edges (also within the bubble) which border stars - no systems with planets. Not only that - those stars up to 10ly away from populated systems also often border just a stars. I think that 20-30ly would be a reasonable minimum. It would keep players within the bubble area. And daisy chaining wouldn't be quick. This would also eliminate situations when players would literally colonize systems and move next just to daisy chain. A lot of players would like to colonize with purpose. To be able to choose interesting systems with some planets on to build real settlements/economy, pick amazing locations and share their joy with other players. Try to limit your ship to 10ly and see how for you get and how many systems will be literally locked out from the start

Frontier is probably well aware that the 10 LY limit won't stand. Less than fifty is my guess.