Not talking about just PvP though. PvE piracy could earn a player in excess of 100 million an hour if you knew what to do and how to do it a few years ago (and had a little luck) so there was some motivation for it.
Could ED benefit from 'Soft Death' mechanics?
- Thread starter Lateralus
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which is very likely why the calls for any damage at all to a target to reset the menu exit timer don't seem to have gained any traction with Frontier - as I expect that the Devs think about how features that affect player interactions can be used against players in unacceptable (to Frontier) ways.
I'm not trying to debate what it is though... the fact is logging out of a player initiated combat situation negatively affects the ability to engage in any pvp gameplay loop except ganking... thats a fact whatever the artificial labels and handwavium.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Noting that this game is very much not those games - as it is designed to be able to be played alone and players may be tens of thousands of light years from the nearest populated system, i.e. no passing NPCs.
No it isn't, just you and a few others here are fixating on it...
Yea but that's more of an economy problem, right? It's fine from a gameplay perspective.
I was doing some PvE piracy a few months ago and it worked fine. Literally the only problem was not enough ships spawning with enough commodities that are worth selling. If they simply modified the spawn rates (more ships and more high-value cargo) then we'd be good to go.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If it's not about combat logging then the best way forward would be to remove all aspects of the proposal that in any affect player agency in relation to when and how they may choose to leave the game.....
If you're playing in solo or a private group this is not going affect your gameplay much if at all
If you're exploring and you go into soft Death it's the same as running out of fuel... you'll have to call for help or swallow the rebuy. A poor example because that situation already exists in the game.. Also as it currently stands if you were out in the black and just died you'd go straight back to the bubble, no chance of rescue. So this is better, thanks for highlighting another benefit of the idea Robert
Maybe, but the one players can moan about and actually report on, while the other they will have to accept.
If it isn't, the suggestion that the "ship go boom" & leaves its cargo behind for collection would have been just as acceptable, surely?
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Except that the player can log out to conserve fuel until a kindly Fuel Rat appears to refuel them - there's no "if you log out you die" in this game.If you're playing in solo or a private group this is not going affect your gameplay much if at all
If you're exploring and you go into soft Death it's the same as running out of fuel... you'll have to call for help or swallow the rebuy. A poor example because that situation already exists in the game.. Also as it currently stands if you were out in the black and just died you'd go straight back to the bubble, no chance of rescue. So this is better, thanks for highlighting another benefit of the idea Robert
Yeah but that is life support time dependent... Engineering options could extend this time. Or fleet carriers could have some kindve rescue service module available to make exploration rescue possible.
At the moment you get no chance, you just explode and lose all your data...
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Life support is indeed time dependent - with differing time for different grades. As there is no current "die on exit" feature in game there's no reason for the player to wait around for what could be over a day in-game awaiting rescue - apart from anything else that would be unhealthy for the player and a waste of energy powering their gaming rig.
Carriers jump once every fifteen minutes, unless it's busy, at which times the tween-jump interval may be over an hour (possibly well over an hour).
The player has effectively infinite time available to them at the moment, when logged out of the game, for any rescue to arrive.
Exactly my point. If we can't answer the question of "Why do this in the first place?" with something meaningful, I think it's a little premature to start working on suggestions for refining the mechanics.
Fix profitability - see where things go with player uptake of a new, profitable piracy and then refine the mechanics to add challenge/ reward/ fun, is my thought on this. It's wasted work if you don't do the first thing though.
agreed
Those are all moot points because currently when you hit 0% you die and have no choice about anything. This proposal adds some degree of choice to the player which currently does not exist. Comparing the situation to being low on fuel or thrusters disabled is a poor comparison because they do occur post 'death'.. you simply go to the rebuy screen. This is another layer in-between those parts.
No. Not at all. Maybe technically true, but not really. A distracted explorer runs out of fuel and can't make another jump. That doesn't mean their ship suddenly blows up. Not for a very long time. They still have full ship function. They have lots of time to call their fleet carrier. Or a friend. Or go mining for some jumponium materials. Or log out to conserve fuel.
If a cmdr actually lets the fuel run down to zero it is an easily avoided self-inflicted situation. It is equivalent to flying full speed into the planet surface. In that 4 seconds before impact there isn't much the cmdr can do. Self inflicted disaster.
What you are describing is not self inflicted disaster with no hope of survival unless a 3rd party intervenes in 7.5 minutes. From a target player POV what's the point? I would rather just just blow up, eat the cost, and continue playing.
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@Lateralus I believe you need to clearly spell out why you think a ship that has been defeated should have a soft death period.
- It is clearly not to any benefit of the target. You aren't going to convince anybody. It is 100% a bad deal for the target.
- It does allow the pirate to collect more loot with less chance of target ship blowing up.
- It does reduce the ability of an unwilling target to logout.
You've stiched together two different points... the only similarity between soft death and running out of fuel is the concept of calling for help while out exploring. Currently you just die and lose all your data, with soft death you have a chance of rescue... even if its small. If you have months of data stored up that may be of value.
Also there is no reason why life support times can't be tweaked or engineering enhancements can't be added to increase the timers and make survival more likely.
Btw I'm not talking specifically about running out of fuel causing the soft death, just any situation where you go to 0% hull... you could hit a rock or overheat too much or anything.
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No. No you don't just die. Running out of fuel is a very long drawn-out process. It doesn't just happen. And if it does eventually happen it is a self inflicted incident. And I believe relatively quite rare. Since 2017 I have never had a ship run out of fuel.
That is entirely different from a situation from interdicted by a pirate. Since 2017 I have never had a ship run out of fuel (I have spent a very large % of my time in deep space). But I have been interdicted.