The Star Citizen Thread v5

[GordFreeman]

There is not even effort needed, thats the whole problem. SC Fans come in here and tell me how i dare to criticse SC and what happens around it. If you confront them with your arguments its always the same stuff, "didnt you see that marketing video, didnt you see that marketing show" You are misinformed, while quoting stuff actually said by those behind SC. Then you will be called a hater, beside bringing valid points and concerns about SC. To the point where you are arguing with a wall, that isnt interest in any perspective and experience you had with SC and was just here to stir you up.

There's a lot more people here calling others cultists than haters. That's for sure.

P.S. I'm pretty sure your post took more effort than mine.

 

[Sydivision77]

[video=youtube;HIm4djMQbaY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIm4djMQbaY#t=323s[/video]

Tractor beam confirmed.

 

[Shinimas]

It lends to the narrative that CR wasn't talking from a position of experience or knowledge when he pitched his release dates...and subsequent ones. He was dead wrong about how the company and game were going to come together. I only hope he has learned his lesson and can move forward now with actually making a game. Time will tell.

Time has told already. When is the cut-off date, the day when it will finally be "okay" to say the project has failed? When they releases a barely functioning game with 10% of all the content in 2019? When it's still in development by 2025? The fanboys say it already succeeded and the current alpha is the best game they've ever seen.

 

[Maruun]

There's a lot more people here calling others cultists than haters. That's for sure.

Overall impression, for both sides.
If i look at any critical video against SC you see both sides, ugly.

Its always the same, when people stand for something or have a commond attitude they get generalised rather then perceived as individuals.

 

[hairychris]

Yep. I do believe that cynics will sink their own boats with all this effort...

I've already written that if Star Citizen ends up being anywhere near what it is claimed to be I'll happily admit that my skepticism is misplaced... simply because that will mean that $125m of backer money has not been wasted.

I want them to prove me wrong.

However, if all that you can do is avoid addressing the points then I am, how can I put it, less worried about the whole situation.

You are what you know, aren't you?

 

[Osmanthus]

Yes. I do believe I remember charts of other well received large projects that went a lot longer than 2 years. Projects from established companies at that.

Ok, thanks. For some of these other large projects, do they have well-established starts of 'full-scale' development? Do you have examples (with sources)? On that note, what actually is your set start of time for full-scale development of SC, and by what criterion?

 

[GordFreeman]

However, if all that you can do is avoid addressing the points then I am, how can I put it, less worried about the whole situation.

I apologize that I failed to address these stellar points.....

Thats what i meant with SC makes it to easy to make fun out of them...they complelty started it.

Or sinks it, in this case...

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Ok, thanks. For some of these other large projects, do they have well-established starts of 'full-scale' development? Do you have examples (with sources)? On that note, what actually is your set start of time for full-scale development of SC, and by what criterion?

I don't remember. Probably StarCraft 2, WOW, some other ones.

I already told Monk what full-scale development means to me. I'm not going to repeat myself every time you don't understand me.

 

[Maruun]

I apologize that I failed to address these stellar points.....

i doubt he is talking about my pointless statements in that regard. So are you actively avoiding it again? Because experince tells me you do.

 

[hairychris]

i doubt he is talking about my pointless statements in that regard. So are you actively avoiding it again? Because experince tells me you do.

I've made a lot of bad decisions in my life.

[hotas]

 

[GordFreeman]

So are you actively avoiding it again? Because experince tells me you do.

No comprende.

 

[Dementropy]

I would like to see what a poster once called an "inter-faith conversation" between SC backers and those who have yet to put money into the project. For that to take place, facts need to be present from both sides. I can watch the trailers that are released for SC and SQ42 to get an idea of the dream, and then I can head over to watch WTFosaurus doing the same loop on a live stream, and the two are vastly different. CIG/RSI have great marketing, but if there are hard numbers, dates, patch release notes that indicate progress, timelines, design documents, roadmaps, etc. - those outside of the bubble do not see them. Talking about how money is being spent is presumptive (on both sides), because those numbers will never be released in the near future. We can guess, based on what we see in pictures (number of staff, type of equipment, etc.). Maybe someone who is not on the outside can actually clear up a major sticking point for me, which is what "open development" is, and why a select group among the backers needs to be under a nondisclosure agreement.

Am I skeptical? You bet. Giving money "on good faith" unless I can see a tangible product rarely enters my sphere. But if the expectation is the BDSSE (or MVP, if we look at the other end of the scale) then I need to see parameters and definitions of what those are and when they will be delivered. These things are not communicated to the outside world.

 

[AJW]

To summarise posts for the last day or so, it appears that at some undefined time in the future, CIG are going to release something-or-another, and it is going to be the best something-or-other ever. And if you don't back it now, you will regret it...

 

[McGlashan]

That's absolute nonsense, you do not get to decide when development starts based on ongoing staff changes or build ups. So what? If he fired everyone and got a whole new team the development timeline restarts? No, it began before the kickstarter. It doesn't matter if he threw away all assets, or everything was restarted - that is still development time to the project. CR doesn't get a special pass on this. That shows heavy bias on your behalf to excuse away his mismanagement.

Also, that standard has to be applied to other projects when comparing the amount of time they took develop. Even if a studio already exists, developers aren't running at 100% crunch with all positions filled for the entire process, across multiple years. So if you're going to allow time for CIG "ramping up", then do the same for other games.

 

[hairychris]

I apologize that I failed to address these stellar points.....

Alrighty then:

That isn't profit. It's pre-orders, and by a relatively small number of people vs the entire computer game market although a significant number of people who are crazy about Chris Roberts games.

There is very little market other then people who are already invested. Unless CIG can break into the mass market (which will require millions of $ in advertising and a fully released product, preferably available via a 3rd party provider like Steam or Origin) they are scuppered.

The big bucks is in the market populated by the big'uns like EA, Activision, etc are pushing out Battlefront, Battlefield, COD, etc.

Tell me how CIG can get a self-supporting sales model using the tactics - pushing additional ships/pledges - that they are now.

Which immediately locks out a large number of potential customers.

You do know that this isn't a good thing, yeah?

Optimization is key for a wide audience (well, and marketing outside the "bubble" and a proficient product to back it up).

ANOTHER EDIT:

Also, for mass markets with high-end gaming PCs you need to be hitting the high frames-per-second FPS crew. A smaller market is the sim crowd.

You need best-in-class plus a shedload of marketing to even get your foot in the door.

Tell me where CIG are in this these respects?

I updated my post.

However, if you plan to build a game that is so resource-hungry that you are (by your admission) deliberately forcing a huge amount of your potential customer-base out of the market?

That's suicidal.

etc

[weird]

 

[Maruun]

No comprende.

Again, its the exact same thing like always in this thread, always a back and forth no "discussion" to be had with guys that just try to stir it up. How many people do i have to start ignoring to actually avoid those that DONT want a discussion?
In the end there is nothing to discuss about SC...because its impossible to discuss anything about SC in a meaningfull way the moment you try you hit those white knight again.

I will just stop here putting effort in getting a discussion and go back into making fun of SC....the only entertainment i seem to get from this game.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Unfortunately you haven't payed any attention to what I have posted. Not surprising. Also not surprising that you are bringing up your all mighty DS.....

...hmmmm and I thought it was the cultists who couldn't stop talking about him......

I see...You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.....

 

[dsmart]

There is no evidence that SC is "on track." And the toxic-er, I mean "enthusiastic community" will be its undoing. Between r/ds, the way fans brigade the comment sections of every article and post that dares to raise a skeptical note, and the theorycrafting on its own forums that practically guarantee SC will not live up to expectations - is a recipe for a very volatile disaster.

Positive articles? The gaming press likes to hedge their bets. What you are reading is nothing that is outright blasting SC, because there was little to no info prior to GamesCom. It's not like they attended E3. Oh there were those articles about refunds, and the obstacles posed by the new TOS. Then came GamesCom, and there's really no information on any of the big name marketing-er, games sites. Going back a full month, the big game sites have written about removing the "head bob," there's an article on two-factor authentication, and there's another article where CIG denies a delay in the release of SQ42, without a substantial followup. There is nothing, NOTHING pointing to a release of SC. There are no hard dates. Just a "maybe we'll have more content after CitCon to tide people over until a big patch next year." 2017, SC backers will get an update to the project, maybe. Yet still no release.

EDIT: $124 million and counting just points to CIG no longer being able to call itself a "small indie company," and more of a funding sponge that seems to excel at engineering debt and delays, with very little in return to build confidence in the "potential" customers who have yet to drop money on this project.

Again, the mantra seems to be, "Well maybe we'll get the MVP sometime next year."

^this. All of it. That is all.

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Wasn't there supposed to be a 2.7 release, too?

Yeah. Then at GamesCom they apparently nerfed it and said that 2.6 was the next one; then 3.0 (aka Jesus Patch) due out end of "this year". Of course backers lapped it up; gave them $4m for that and based on a shoddy staged demo.

It's now end of Sept. 2.6 is now delayed (<--- LOL!! nope, Sally didn't see that coming), which is looking a lot like Oct/Nov for Evocati; which means Nov/Dec for PU release.

Then we're in 2017; and yet another year of HARDLY ANY TANGIBLE PROGRESS would have come and gone.

 

[dsmart]

HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

Their crowd funding levels say otherwise! [wacko]

No it doesn't. What is says, according to metrics, is that roughly 2K (out of over 500K) people are the only ones left giving them money.

Nice try.

 

[Maruun]

It's now end of Sept. 2.6 is now delayed (<--- LOL!! nope, Sally didn't see that coming), which is looking a lot like Oct/Nov for Evocati; which means Nov/Dec for PU release.

Then we're in 2017; and yet another year of HARDLY ANY TANGIBLE PROGRESS would have come and gone.

,
At this point i am not even suprised or disappointed...how can i be disappointed, when exactly what i expected happend to a degree...?

 

[Osmanthus]

I don't remember. Probably StarCraft 2, WOW, some other ones.

That's not good enough. You have no reference for when full-scale development started on those games. And Wikipedia saying "development took X years" doesn't count because Wikipedia would also say that Star Citizen development started in 2011.