Collection of Ideas for Elite 4

[DraQ]

YES Absolutely DraQ you hit the nail on the head, and it was that which was missing in later, "prettier" games. And if I have to sacrifice DX10 WXSGA quality to achieve that....well, there's imagination. Green wifeframe Elite was more immersive and more believable than Freelancer et al to me. Our brains can fill in the details if the basics are right.

Still, Frontier aged surprisingly well in visual detail department.
I've found out about this game in 2006 or so, I think, and despite the graphics is understandably not very advanced I was stunned by the amount of detail and flexibility of the engine.

Even in modern games you don't see many engines that can simultaneously render objects 10m and 10AU away.

The game also features curvilinear polys, visible equipment, registration codes, lights and working thrusters on the ships, stunningly realistic clouds, coloured directional lighting and tons of detail that can't even be noticed until you stick your nose into some object, for example fine lettered warnings on cargo pods on Lynx Bulk Carrier, radioactive trifoliums on containers with radioactives or clocktowers with working clocks.

(Ok the pretty stuff is nice too...but space is basically black, and if it is stuffed with unlikely nebulae everywhere [X series] because the makers are scared of us having a 5 second attention span it loses reality).

I do want to see nearby objects, such as nebulae in the background though. It would be great if game mapped most notable objects in the vicinity as well as average star density in every direction on a sphere and used is as backdrop upon entering the system.

 

[DrBaggy]

Still, Frontier aged surprisingly well in visual detail department.

Even in modern games you don't see many engines that can simultaneously render objects 10m and 10AU away.

I do want to see nearby objects, such as nebulae in the background though. It would be great if game mapped most notable objects in the vicinity as well as average star density in every direction on a sphere and used is as backdrop upon entering the system.

Agreed. For it's time, it was stunning: Elite had been monochrome wireframe graphics! The freedom to land on planets was amazing, and the realism way ahead of it's time. I guess as graphics improve it's harder to procedurally generate these features.
And yes nebulae would be great but just not plastered all over the place as in some games. It feels better to have dare I say a bit of "boredom" to give a sense of the emptiness of space so that when things happen either being attacked or visual pyrotechnics it hits you with more of a "wow". Just my humble opinion! To me it's why Baldurs Gate where you wandered along gentle countryside then gibberlings jumped out at you is better than NWN2 when it's relentless fighting...but maybe that's a bit off topic.
Do you think Frontier takes any notice of us? I know they are worried about copyright etc but it would be nice to know if they are affected by our musings. David are you out there?

 

[Adrena1in]

It would be great if game mapped most notable objects in the vicinity as well as average star density in every direction on a sphere and used is as backdrop upon entering the system.

Yes, now that would be very cool. I'm starting to get quite into amatuer astronomy, so if the game were to accurately display stars and other deep space objects depending on where you are, it would add an extra dimension to the game.

I mean, imagine being in the Sol system, and seeing the well known constellations from your cockpit, or over the land when docked on Earth. Then fly to a nearby system and see how much they change. (Perhaps even make the stars clickable on-screen, so if you know where you're going and they're in range, you can just click and Hyperspace right there.)

And thinking about that, what about an intelligent navigation computer, which allows you to select a system that is out of range, and it automatically calculates your multi-jump route for you. And that route is displayed on screen, as a line indicating each jump.

Talking of Hyperspace, something better than the "Blue Circles" graphic of FE2 would also be nice...I like the star-lines idea for example, (though I don't like anything graphical which indicates actually being in Hyperspace, such as in Star Wars of Babylon 5...for me it should be blackness and silence.

 

[tobytyke]

I would like to have the chance to buy a Planet / space station, which would then enable you the chance of having more than one ship. So you can the choice of either mining, bounty hunting etc without having to sell ships. Also have the chance the store equipment so that you could set your ship up as require.

 

[MJallday]

ideas for E4

1. planets political status to change at a moments notice/be more intuitive - affecting random attacks. random attacks to be more than 1/2 craft
2. Return of the Thargoids!!!! either that or (7)
3. the option to pick more than 3 "sides" for alliance (eg more than Imperial, Federation, Independant)
4. to pick a skillset (fighting/trading/exploration) which give in-game benefits
5. more ships in the atmosphere/orbit - satellites?
6. time travel? (within reason?) affecting storyline
7. an overwhelming enemy? (eg borg/species 8472) that live on the fringes of the galaxy?
8. interplanetory trade (within the same system) to be made a more attractive proposition than F:E2
9. recruiting staff to be a damn site easier than sitting in a spacestation for endless days!
10. the fast forward clock not to go back to "normal time" at midnight
11. most importantly - E4 to be open ended, for you never to "win" and to allow random events that will never leave you bored - even if you have 20 billion credits! (staff to rob you?!)
12. police to follow you accross star systems?
13. commodity trading (shares?)
14. Jobs on planets (politition, prime minster, president, country, continent, world, royalty positions, ambassadorships?)
15. trading "shops" on planets which earn money in background to fund missions

thats it, no more (for now)

 

[JohannStrauss]

Wishes!

Ok, I recently found my pamphlet of ideas I wrote done about 10 years ago.
I really HOPE someone gonne read this (perhaps those developers...).

First of all I'd like to point out, that I hope to see a perfect simulation based on a combination of adventure, flight simulation, political/military development (masters of orion), and classical trading sim (guild).

I'd like to see:

1. A core universe but a totally random, infinite outer milky way which is calculated individually each start. This enables you to explore. I mean: EXPLORE!!! Perhaps you'll find a new species some 1.000 LY away?

2. You can choose your starting point with your own family background:
a) a farmer on a planet with some land and income
b) a politician on a planet / worker
c) worker on a space station with some income
d) pirate / criminal
e) etc.

3. You can start your own POLITICAL CAREER:
a) candidate to local major to senator etc. with all of the privileges like: land, slaves (depends on the planet you choose as a starting point), ships, military power (later), money, income...
b) be the leader of a whole planet - planetary system (after 60 years...): Get all the taxes!
c) Declare independence of your systems etc.

But you can still fly your ships to earn money - but you have all the political menus at your hand.

You were away to aldebaran for 2 years just to earn some 100 Mio. credits? Too bad! A revolution on your planet destroyed your dynasty...

4. Build up a factory, farm, company and get REALLY rich!
Start your own monetary imperia by choosing the right career starting point! Feed the universe with your food from the 2,000 farms you control. Or develop the planet into a hyper modern factory-system. Use the money to speed up your political career. Or build yourself the biggest spaceship ever seen.

5. Creative no limit spaceship building: Build it like "lego". Connect modules to bigger ships. The limit is the money - and the shipyard you can use.

6. Buy your own Space-Station! Build up a casino!

7. Choose the most beautiful planet as your home and build the most beautiful villa - or just fly around and safe the money.

8. Buy some really expensive robots to fly your small armada of ships for better trading success.

9. Build up a R&D station to get the new products in your factories.

10. Forget all about the political / economic menu and just enter the ego-shooter as a soldier / pirate / marine and fight on other planets. Or just be a average guy on a space station and hang around and explore till you get the next job.

11. Find hidden objects with special uses on unknown planets: undetectable rockets - new weapons? Find it and use it!

12. I want a interstellar share market!

13. Become a killer. Look out for the police...

14. Hire staff (scientists for your facilities (farms / factories / stores) with individual profiles and expertise.

15. Fall in love - virtually!

16. WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE POINT: FULL random character designs on all planets - thousands of aliens and beautiful humans (or is it a robot?) unique to your own world. Build your family and a dynasty!

17. I NEED 100 different tradable things. Just put in as much as you can.

18. Weapons! The more the better! Let the KI suffer!

19. Pimp your spaceship! Just fly to the shipyard, invest some money and pimp it baby!

20. Medical involvement!!! You have 2 billion credits on hand? Why don't you buy your daily dose of immortality for 200 mio. each year? Welcome to the club!
Or perhaps you got infected on a outer planet by some unknown disease? Go to the hospital if you have the money - or just ask a friend for some medicine...

21. Buy some luxury for the interior of your spaceship or habitat! Perhaps a holo-suite for 300 mio? You have to use your money for something if you are really rich...

22. Get yourself some bodyguards.

23. Gambling can make you rich, too ...or get you into deep, deep trouble...

24. Start a career as a police man.

25. Join the military for 5 years - perhaps you are to deep in the depts. Lost some money at the interstellar stock market? Bought some worthless lands on Rigel or Ridquat?

-----

My ultimate goal is the infinite game fun, which means, that you got to have the chance to spend (or loose) your money (for ridiculous expensive things like a palace f.e.) and build a family / dynasty to hand over your ship and money.

Random political events in the universe spicing it up.

Ok?

 

[JohannStrauss]

Had an extra thought, and that was to make the trading more versatile/realistic.

When I decide to buy something there's first a choice of shops (Tescos vs Waitrsoe), and then a choice of brands (Kellogs vs Nestle) and then a choose of products (cornflakes vs rice crispies). It would be nice to see something similar. So when you go to a planet or there's a choice of markets, different brands within those markets, and different quality goods. That way there could be a rating of quality/durability etc for each product and you can choose between different sellers. And if you are a regular customer or bulk buy, maybe you could get discounts.

Or maybe you could look for orders in one system...So in Sol I see an ad for wanting a regular supply of Easter eggs for easter, so I agree with the trader that I'll do a regular flight to another system to pick 'em up over 3-4 months, bringing X tonnes/month. Silly example, but something like that.

And just to add extra falour, maybe you could choose to do this all yourself, or hire someone to do it for you.

Right, back to the desk job now

I love those ideas!

 

[The Space Pirate]

My thoughts on what I'd like to see in E4:

1. The ability to name the planets, moons and other bodies in each system that has been explored by you - naming the star system itself is up for debate.

2. Expanding frontier boundaries that grow as time in the game progresses and includes those systems that have been discovered on the edge of the frontier by you. It would be interesting to see new faciltities being built by the different companies and organisations in game as time moves on. New places will be popping up fairly often allowing more to explore as you continue to play the game.

3. Ability to construct facilities and space stations on or in orbit around planets/moons even asteroids for trading and manufacture of goods. The ability to own more than one ship at a time and to use them to automate trading with a crew onboard.

4. New space objects like nebulea, pulsars and black-holes (and a supermassive one at the heart of the galaxy ). Even a supernova on very rare occassions that may happen in some systems creating those black-holes or neutron stars etc.

5. Treasures/ artifacts that are hidden all over the galaxy, such as special ships and goods that can be used to modify your existing ship/s (new weapons, faster and longer distance engines etc). Some scripted missions that list the location or vicinity or where these treasures are located. Maybe the locations of such can be randomly generated with each new game.

6. Dynamic Milky Way background. As you travel around the galaxy and towards or away from the galactic core this can be represented here. One example for this could be that as you approach the core the blob at the centre of this background becomes larger and more detailed until you reach the exact centre. I think something similar was done in Homeworld ?.

Something tells me that the core should have many reasons to make the trip worthwhile such as many diamond or gold rich systems (since there are a lot of old and massive stars in the core, this makes sense). Maybe add the features of the inner-spiral and ring of nebulea in the region to make it more interesting for us astronomy fans. More supernova (4.) take place more often here so getting to those precious resources will be risky if they are located in a system with a collapsing star. The supermassive blackhole should be an interesting location to add a large swirling accretion disk (can use that for a fuel scooping challenge ?) and other graphical wonders. Maybe, just maybe this blackhole could be used in the game for some useful purpose such as a gateway to another galaxy or something - I'm sure the developers could come up with something great here. Could even be a plot device for a mission. . .

7. Tools (maybe in-game) to create new custom ship hulls that can be saved as a file to disk allowing a community of users to s*** creations but not allowing the use of them until you have your own shipyard or something.

8. Some sort of modding ability be added to the game for those that wish to create custom content - although not really essential since I get the feeling that E4 will be dynamic in a lot of its content.

9. Secondary support craft for your ship. It would be great to have smaller craft for other areas of the game, such as planetside, that are stored in your ships hanger. Shuttlecraft that can be used for escape procedures and to land small ground vehicles such as armoured cars that can even explore all seas and oceans on a planet as well as land. Maybe you could use them to deploy submersible mines to drill for oil and gas this way if necessary as well as traditional land mines. One advantage of this is that you could land your craft and drive to a deployed mine instead of having to fly and land close by for retrieval - although the Frontier/FE method should still be possible for those of us that like to do it the traditional way.

10. I know that has been discussed already, but I'd like to see some sort of Internet multiplayer option for online play with other real people that make use of the game files already installed on single-player installations but which can be added to or modified as client patches are released. Since everything is already on your system in terms of graphic content, the on-line downloads for multi-player play will be a lot smaller. I don't know how feasible this would be.

If you made it this far, then thanks for reading !

Rant over.

I agree with all your points and would like to add:

1. When in a space-station/space-port, let's have the option to wonder around if we want, instead of merely being confronted with a different screen for each 'shop'. This would make these sections far more immersive.

2. A combat control system similar to the one in 'X-Wing' (in other words, when you pull the stick back, you climb and so on). Or for those who liked 'Freelancer', include an option to fly only with the mouse. I really hated the combat in 'Frontier', I just want to be able to point my ship at the enemy and blow them into space-dust!

3. What you said about the useless 'call for help' option! I hear you!!!

4. Really go to town on the 'super-weapons'!! I can't wait to be able to nuke a city from space!

Edit: I really love the sound of a dynamic universe, where new 'businesses' or facilities appear over time, while others disappear, but I don't know if that would be possible, since we'd be talking about simulating countless planets, not just one. I'd hate Braben to reduce the size of the universe to accommodate something like that.

 

[The Space Pirate]

I believe Elite4 should be a MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game). In these days of fast broadband and fast PC's and next gen consoles like XBox360 and (soon) the PS3, there has never been a better time when the resources and capabilities of current hardware could make a fantastic MMORPG Elite 4.

And those of us who haven't got unlimited usage can go jump?? I emphatically do not want Elite 4 to come out as only a MMORPG! Include great multiplayer, absolutely, but please do not abandon the single-player side, or give us crap AI because you're concentrating on the multiplayer side!

 

[The Space Pirate]

NOOOOO - Not jump gates!!!!! - AAAAHHHHHH!!!

Jump gates have killed every modern space sim - they make it feel like you're flying in a box! See BC/UC, X, Freelancer, Privateer......

Given current research, I think there are plenty of ways communication faster than the speed of light can be achieved.

For example, if ships can travel that far using some device, surely a less powerful device can be used to transmit a signal.

Toad.

I hate 'jump gates' with an intense and extremely evil passion! Just let us jump from where we want (apart from too close to planets, we don't want to mutate the population - or do we??)

 

[The Space Pirate]

While I'm all in favour of the police doing what police do (within a reasonable distance of their home base), I'm not sure about the high density areas.

Look at something like X3 - there's no feeling of space travel because there are amall systems with too many ships. It's like being on a boating lake

Given space is "big" (a small understatement there) there should be almost no high density areas. A few ships around stations perhaps, other than that transports (plus escorts) in deep space. I don't think you stumble across these ships - you either deliberately trail them or wait on well known shipping lanes... Of course the same happens to the player, so you may be intercepted.

That feeling of isolation in a massive universe has been present since Elite - it would be terrible to lose it now and end up with another X3/BC/UC style game.

If Elite 4 comes out with a pathetic sized universe like those games you mentioned above, I for one won't be buying it!

 

[The Space Pirate]

These are some of the best suggestions for Elite IV that I've yet seen on this forum! Nice one essezeta! I like the fact that a lot of your suggestions come directly from some of the frustrations of earlier Elite games. I can certainly relate to most if not all of those frustrations. Especially the lack of responses you got from other pilots etc (e.g. no-one anwers "broadcast message to all in range...", no-one answers calls for help, if you say "surrender or die" they ALWAYS just say "ha ha!".

Agreed, the comms in Frontier were rubbish!

As well as being able to go out on missions, it'd be good if you can recruit people to come with you (in single-player as well as multiplayer). TIE Fighter showed that it would be possible to have AI decent enough that your new friends actually prove to be worth the money and not end up as laser-fodder!

 

[The Space Pirate]

i think as an idea for missions, the player should be able to be employed to fly the employers craft - for instance "we need a pilot to fly our transport of synthetic meat to the Lave system", etc
aswell as being employed by the military - you fly their craft and can do your own stuff/fly your own ship when your contract ends...

is that a fair suggestion?

Absolutely! That way, if you get trashed by a pirate, you haven't lost your ship!!!

 

[The Space Pirate]

Some other things that I would like to see in E4:

- A feel of ship scale. If I am in a little ship then a feeling of aproaching a big ship should translate in scale. Perhaps even being able to traverse the surface of the ship in a "Starship Troopersesq" style (remembering the scene where Carmen Ibanez flies through the space station near the start or Starwars flying over Star Destroyers). Massive

- A timeframe (maybe?) for the game with developing tech - so during the game you get things like - New ship available or a new laser system has been developed by Lance & Ferman etc.

- An encounter AI - i.e. the bigger the ship you have or the more experienced in combat causes the game AI to consider whether an attack or run scenario is followed. IMO The idea of leveling up your opponents whilst you level up is foolish and seems like an excuse for game designers like Asceron and Bethsda to avoid creating a more diverse environment.

- Following on from the encounter AI, the old elite games had the various political climates that in a way defined the likelihood of getting attacked by pirates and the like. This could be further developed by either war or a racial affiliation (I know possibly too controversial) where the type of technology exhibited on your ship possibly alters the manner in which a race reacts to you.

- In game ship design? The ability to integrate various technologies that change the outwards appearance of the ship?

- Being able to get up and walk around your own ship? Possibly interact in some manner with your crew? Submissions with stowaways etc?

Agreed, but only if we can add our own technology, otherwise you reach a certain date and then everything remains the same.

As for some nice, huge ships, definitely! One question: did anyone get to the top level in the navy career? If so, did you ever get the chance to participate in a proper war against capital ships and so on? Like the battle scene from 'Return of the Jedi', but set in our universe? Some epic (and unscripted) naval battles should be a part of Elite IV for sure!

 

[The Space Pirate]

Like gass mine inside gass planets atmosphere?

Yep and the ability to fly round the planet's rings!!!!

 

[The Space Pirate]

Hi.

If elite 4 has the option of walking around ships and stations, I hope you get to design your character and choose your sex, maybe even be an alien species. Would anyone else like to see a feature similar to this?

Cheers

Moriarity

Yep, with the same amount of options as Oblivion has. While on that subject, let's have lots of new races in Elite IV! Maybe the occasional (unscripted) invasion from another galaxy???

 

[The Space Pirate]

A friendly tip:
Ctrl+E switches rendering modes in GLfrontier.

And this is the moment when some people, like me, say "thank you" and lose interest in the game.
Besides, relistically scaled, frontier style, systems and MMO are mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't want frontier to lose one of the key aspects that set it apart from
your typical space-sim.
The only multiplayer capability possible in frontier-style game is coop where all players man single ship and DM where a point in space is chosen and combatants spawn in close proxmity (this can be extended to team DM with different ships, "capture the cargo", etc.).

That would be cool.

Very cool idea.

I don't think it's possible with frontier-style ships to a degree larger than it was implemented in FE2 and FFE (buying the hull and messing around with equipment).

Uh, what's wrong with Frontier's pace?

Don't you dare diss the Homeworld, for my mass-drivers are swift and accurate.

What's GLFrontier?

Edit: Sorry, I've just noticed I've almost taken over this forum, got a bit carried away!!!!

One last thing we all seem to be forgetting:

Make Elite IV a game that we won't need a PC from NASA to play on with any sense of enjoyment (lots of scaling of GFX, etc) and if there's a multiplayer option, it needs to be completely separate from the offline option. None of this needing to be connected to the internet to play single-player!!!

Ok, that's it for now, but the Space Pirate will be back!!!

 

[Darkman]

I agree with all your points. . .

Great

and would like to add:

1. When in a space-station/space-port, let's have the option to wonder around if we want, instead of merely being confronted with a different screen for each 'shop'. This would make these sections far more immersive.

2. A combat control system similar to the one in 'X-Wing' (in other words, when you pull the stick back, you climb and so on). Or for those who liked 'Freelancer', include an option to fly only with the mouse. I really hated the combat in 'Frontier', I just want to be able to point my ship at the enemy and blow them into space-dust!

3. What you said about the useless 'call for help' option! I hear you!!!

4. Really go to town on the 'super-weapons'!! I can't wait to be able to nuke a city from space!

Sounds good to me especially the super weapon idea.

Edit: I really love the sound of a dynamic universe, where new 'businesses' or facilities appear over time, while others disappear, but I don't know if that would be possible, since we'd be talking about simulating countless planets, not just one. I'd hate Braben to reduce the size of the universe to accommodate something like that.

Preserving the size of the galaxy shown in Frontier/FFE is more important I agree, but if the dev team can pull off dynamic business/facility generation and degeneration that would be something special .

 

[The Space Pirate]

Great



Sounds good to me especially the super weapon idea.



Preserving the size of the galaxy shown in Frontier/FFE is more important I agree, but if the dev team can pull off dynamic business/facility generation and degeneration that would be something special .

Of course, if they can do both, that'd be great, as long as it runs ok without needing a computer with the processing power of Skynet!!

 

[turwhitt]

Ok, I recently found my pamphlet of ideas I wrote done about 10 years ago.
I really HOPE someone gonne read this (perhaps those developers...).


***trimmed because it's so long!***

I really love your ideas, it would make an incredible, all-encompassing game, and i daresay i would get so engrossed in it that i would lose all sense of reality.

But it's just so complex that i don't think it's possible with the current technology. Forget a release date of 2010, make it 3010! Unless we finally create AIs which can understand abstract concepts and make programs. With only humans at the controls it's just too large a concept to be possible.

Maybe one day!