The Star Citizen Thread v5

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
If you have put thousands of pounds into a game that is turning into something you expect to never even play, why on Earth would you not want a refund? What kind of logic is that?

Actually if someone genuinely believed they were donating to the project come what may - and they decided to leave their money in based on that principle I'd have to say - give that spacedude a ceeeegarrr!

The people I take issue with are those that try and shame others into thinking that way - it's a personal thing but AFAIC it wasn't a donation, specially post Kickstarter.
 
oooh oooh ssssh that's gonna be a sore topic with how much they're risen over the last month!

obviously the value of shares may go down as well as up, but since jpeg's only go down the better investment is fairly clear and i doubt they're happy about it

I'm still sore I didn't buy some when they were as low as £1.62.
 
If you have put thousands of pounds into a game that is turning into something you expect to never even play, why on Earth would you not want a refund? What kind of logic is that?

Because putting it precisely you did not Buy a Game.
You Funded an Project or rather Invested into the Funding of an Project.

If People read the Advice below which tells People that this sort of Project has an Chance of Failure and that they should ONLY Invest Money they can afford to lose.
Then you might also realize why Some People did not exactly bother with looking for a Refund.
The Refund is Something that Star Citizen Offers by themselves.


I for example back then Bought an an Constellation Package for over 200 Euro.
But thats because I got this Money and can Spare losing it.
I wont be looking for an Refund. Because I Invested into the Game knowing that this is Supporting an Project and this Money will be used for this.
This to me also means the Risk that this might Fail and that the Money might not return a Game to me.




For SlackR in this case tough. I would consider Refunding.
If you Invested based on the Promise of VR. And they now pretty much put VR out or at the end of the Line. There is nothing to Feel Bad about with Demanding an Refund.

Investments are done on the Risk of Failure. But if you Invested Wood Housing and they suddenly want to do Brick Housing they cannot expect you to stay around with them.

- - - Updated - - -

*Mod hat off



"The Frontier SC thread. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy"


Agreed.
Heck if anyone wonders were all the Haters go when they are Banned and chased away on the Star Citizen Forums and Reddit. You just need to come looking here and your Guaranteed to Find as many of them as you could ever want......

By now. I got so many People in this Topic on Ignore that 70% of the Pages on this Topic dont contain a Single Post for me to Read....
 
Last edited:
Actually if someone genuinely believed they were donating to the project come what may - and they decided to leave their money in based on that principle I'd have to say - give that spacedude a ceeeegarrr!

The people I take issue with are those that try and shame others into thinking that way - it's a personal thing but AFAIC it wasn't a donation, specially post Kickstarter.

It is their right, of course. IMO capitalism doesn't work that way though, and it's important to give a honest signal and to "vote with your wallet" when things go as they have on this project.

- - - Updated - - -

For SlackR in this case tough. I would consider Refunding.
If you Invested based on the Promise of VR. And they now pretty much put VR out or at the end of the Line. There is nothing to Feel Bad about with Demanding an Refund.
...
This is what I meant. The promises for VR support have been dropped.
 
Lol VR support hasn't been dropped lol as a matter of fact the engine just got updated with even more VR compability... [rolleyes]

I don't get why people want to make stuff up, what's the point?

Star Citizen is in active development , we already have 1st & 3rd Person animations integrated, we have visual stabilization, we have the head detached from the body and diegetic user interface.

Complaining about lack of Track IR, VR and what not is not understanding game development priorities.

Star Citizen was never announced as VR Game, just that they would support it, it will come in due time.
 
Last edited:
Lol VR support hasn't been dropped lol as a matter of fact the engine just got updated with even more VR compability... [rolleyes]

I suspect it's pointless to answer you directly, but this is such a blatant case I'll make the exception.

VR isn't something you can just plug in later. The game design in Star Citizen is full of stuff that would make VR a vomit fest.

a) The commitment to insane polygon counts means that frame rates are low, even with top rate gear. VR demands rock steady and very high frame rates, and that means making realistic choices when it comes to the graphics.

b) The canned animations are a huge no-no, and yet they are clearly something very dear to CR. If Chris truly cared about VR, the game wouldn't be full of animations that take control of the character movement and camera.

c) The FPS style movement, both on foot and in space is another aspect that makes VR a non-starter.

***

So no, you're wrong. You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're deliberately distorting things.
 
IfN9tgX.jpg


"In due time" came later, once they realized everyone would have severe disorientation and nausea from all of their canned animations.
 
I suspect it's pointless to answer you directly, but this is such a blatant case I'll make the exception.

VR isn't something you can just plug in later. The game design in Star Citizen is full of stuff that would make VR a vomit fest.

a) The commitment to insane polygon counts means that frame rates are low, even with top rate gear. VR demands rock steady and very high frame rates, and that means making realistic choices when it comes to the graphics.

b) The canned animations are a huge no-no, and yet they are clearly something very dear to CR. If Chris truly cared about VR, the game wouldn't be full of animations that take control of the character movement and camera.

c) The FPS style movement, both on foot and in space is another aspect that makes VR a non-starter.

***

So no, you're wrong. You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're deliberately distorting things.

So I'm not wrong, VR Support wasn't cancelled, just because the state of the game isint suited for VR now it doesn't mean it will never be ;)
Besides they can add VR Support for Arena Commander where you don't even move in FPS or they can alter the camera to 3rd person whenever you have animations, or they can work the animations to better suit VR, It's in the OPEN, no problem is a dead end lol . Like I said before just because it doesn't seem possible now doesn't mean it will never be. Problems exist to be solved and they have professionals that earn their wages by solving those problems so no, VR is not ditched until they officially say that is ditched. Same as private forums and Modding tools.
 
I suspect it's pointless to answer you directly, but this is such a blatant case I'll make the exception.

VR isn't something you can just plug in later. The game design in Star Citizen is full of stuff that would make VR a vomit fest.

a) The commitment to insane polygon counts means that frame rates are low, even with top rate gear. VR demands rock steady and very high frame rates, and that means making realistic choices when it comes to the graphics.

b) The canned animations are a huge no-no, and yet they are clearly something very dear to CR. If Chris truly cared about VR, the game wouldn't be full of animations that take control of the character movement and camera.

c) The FPS style movement, both on foot and in space is another aspect that makes VR a non-starter.

***

So no, you're wrong. You either don't know what you're talking about, or you're deliberately distorting things.


A
This Problem is actually solved by Time.
Because the moment you get higher Capacity on the Hardware. This Problem Solves itself.

I can Run SC without any Lags and I got a 3 Year Old Computer now.
For Fairness Said. My Computer cost me 1300 Euro back then and I upgraded the Graphics Card later as well. So it is a Fairly Good Machine.
But for nowdays Computers. Star Citizen should be within the Range of what can be Managed.
And VR from the Start requires an very Modern System. So this aint a problem in my Eyes.


B.
Agreed.
Cinematic Cutscenes are very Bad for VR. They Throw People off and can even cause Sickness based on the Action.

The Choice is pretty Logical tough.
going by Likeliness the Vast Majority wont use VR for Star Citizen.

So the Cinematic Cutscenes and Animations are an much better Choice to bring Life and Immersion into the Game.
VR has clearly been overruled here.

Albeit for Fairness Said. This could be Solved Later by Smoothing such Scenes for VR.
As long as it is Animations and not Full Videos of course. If its an Pre Recorded Video instead of Animation its going to be very Hard.
But for Animations you can Include a Free movement Camera with Pointers to get the Player look to a certain Point Himself instead of being thrown there with his Head.
Just as an Example :)


3.
Aye.
To begin with VR is nowhere close to being Ready for FPS Games except Piloting.
VR will likely Feel absolutely Great when Piloting a Spaceship. But for FPS its going to be an horribly Nauseating Experience.
If they would really want to Support it here. They would basicly have to Run with an Double Control and Monitor Setup which Allows the Player to pretty much use VR for Piloting and then take off the VR when leaving the Pilot Seat.
This does in a certain way even make sense and would add some Immersion. But it would also mean extra System Requirements and pretty Complicated handling.
Its one of the Biggest No Goes for VR in Star Citizen right now.

Another Work around would be if SC integrates the Station and Game Systems so far. That People can Effectively Choose to Life aboerd their Ship without leaving it.
Meaning that you can Connect to Terminals etc from Aboard your Ship and thus dont actually need to bother with stuff like FPS Combat etc.

This is actually my Big Hope here for SC.
Elite Dangerous made an Critical Mistake in this.
They Try to Force the Player into doing EVERYTHING and use ALL FEATURES.
This is what is currently Killing the Game for me.
So I hope that SC does not make this Mistake and Instead allows each Player to Play the Way he wants. Meaning that if Someone actually wants to be a Pure Pilot. He has enough Jobs etc where he needs to leave his Spaceship almost never and most of all not for Combat or Something.





In General tough.
I agree.
I doubt SC is giving VR any Priority right now.
Its pretty Obvious that SC has chosen to work for the Normal PC Players rather than the VR Players.
Which is fine with me as an Normal Player. (Because lets be Honest. An VR Optimized System would be annoying for us Normal Players just like this one is annoying to VR Players) ^^
 
Anyhow, im going to put some thoughts of SC as i tried the 2.6 today and i have to say, even with all the bugs and stuff, its so AWESOME!
With few friends, so much fun just to fool around and do some fun stuff. Have learned more of the game in one evening than with the last 2 years ive had the game. :D
Im seriously thinking of putting some money to some ship, but then again, i think i want to "earn" my ships ingame, just like in Elite so ill probably stick with my Aurora.
And for the time being, you can always steal other players ships if you want to try something different.. :D

Cant wait for the 3.0, its going to be a mindblower..

+1Rep & Welcome! [big grin] Feel free to post more and participate, don't be shy in expressing your likings for the game, people might attack your or mistake you for "CIG staff" but that's ok lol, just roll with the punches. There's some of us that actually play the game and share the same views as you! ;)

And yes 2.6 adds some cool stuff , tried boarding a Caterpillar with the intentions of stealing it the other day but the owner just emote waved at me and welcomed into the ship so we ended up doing quests around Yela with him at the helm and me in the turret (much improved now).

BTW there's a Caterpillar Pirate skin to earn when you complete Pirate Swarm: Pirate Skin Caterpillar

And you can shoot through the Caterpillar if you disable shields ofc :D

[video=youtube;wkh9de2D3wk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkh9de2D3wk[/video]

- Shooting a missile through the Caterpillar

- Another try

As a long time lurker and occasional poster here I would say this thread is JUST as bad. It's primarily a place to rag on everything and anything to do with SC and there's very little of interesting reading from that camp. In fact from the point of view of someone wanting info about the game this thread is completely useless, but it's perfect for reading about people complaining ENDLESSLY about SC.

+1Rep

It is indeed but it's now all that bad, just ignore the fud'ers that wish to see the game burn and it's quite bearable. We are mostly passionate people that like to chitchat on forums and wish Star Citizen to be everything Chris Roberts and CIG are making it to be. [big grin]

Don't be shy and keep participating, the more the merrier. [up]

Just wonderful, puts me in a mind to start celebrating how much money we've given the local supermarket this year woohoo!!

My pic is a bit different to your one though.

https://i.imgur.com/rqDepA1.png

Yeah it changes every week, here's this week:

:D Happy 140$Millions guys :D

2SInZOk.png
 
Last edited:
This Euro-gamer article today is interesting if not particularly revealing. I do like this quote:

A developer who says multiplayer will be in their game when behind the scenes the Is have yet to be dotted and the Ts yet to be crossed as part of the normal process of smashing together a video game to get it ready for release is just asking for trouble.

Which I still think applies to SC somewhat. I really think the bare bones of a quality multi-player tech structure should have been their focus for the Pre-Alpha/Alpha builds years ago. It should have been a priority above fleshing out fancy space craft assets and it should be prioritised massively over new party game tricks like planetary landings. What they have out there now still has too many question-marks concerning the MMO side.

I hope they start to address this over the next year, particularly with the new AWS focus. I'm not in the least bit bothered about the change in engine - when I started my career as a developer it was in the games industry just when Playstation 1 games were moving over the Playstation 2 and some titles that were being worked on by the same developer had to switch to new engines despite having been in development for a while. It's pretty normal and a change to an engine forked from Crytek should be as straightforward as they claimed. Also, having worked on many non-game applications since my days as a games dev, it's perfectly normal to switch out underlining frameworks and I'm sure there are lots of coders here who've experienced switching a CMS or EMS or similar, it is just what it is.

To compare with FD once again, I was pretty impressed with the way they planned a P2P/Hybrid architecture (which is actually mentioned in the FAQ on the Kickstarter) and had many iterations of getting it right from the original alpha. Despite the moaning on the forums, it's really hard to imagine a straight client to server architecture that would scale nicely for a game that creates instances of players at any time anywhere in an almost infinite game-world. I don't see it as a cost cutting measure, it simply is the most practical way to do it given the current tech out there, without having to change the game design so much it would be pretty unrecognisable in the Elite series. Star Citizen on the other hand promises to have, essentially, hundreds of vast FPS maps hosted with many hundreds(?) of instances of players. That's an entirely different proposition and it needs to be put into practical iterations of development sooner rather than later. What we have right now is a very small number of map instances with fairly limited total player counts, and still many many questions IMHO.
 
A
This Problem is actually solved by Time.
Because the moment you get higher Capacity on the Hardware. This Problem Solves itself.

I can Run SC without any Lags and I got a 3 Year Old Computer now.
For Fairness Said. My Computer cost me 1300 Euro back then and I upgraded the Graphics Card later as well. So it is a Fairly Good Machine.
But for nowdays Computers. Star Citizen should be within the Range of what can be Managed.
And VR from the Start requires an very Modern System. So this aint a problem in my Eyes.


B.
Agreed.
Cinematic Cutscenes are very Bad for VR. They Throw People off and can even cause Sickness based on the Action.

The Choice is pretty Logical tough.
going by Likeliness the Vast Majority wont use VR for Star Citizen.

So the Cinematic Cutscenes and Animations are an much better Choice to bring Life and Immersion into the Game.
VR has clearly been overruled here.

Albeit for Fairness Said. This could be Solved Later by Smoothing such Scenes for VR.
As long as it is Animations and not Full Videos of course. If its an Pre Recorded Video instead of Animation its going to be very Hard.
But for Animations you can Include a Free movement Camera with Pointers to get the Player look to a certain Point Himself instead of being thrown there with his Head.
Just as an Example :)


3.
Aye.
To begin with VR is nowhere close to being Ready for FPS Games except Piloting.
VR will likely Feel absolutely Great when Piloting a Spaceship. But for FPS its going to be an horribly Nauseating Experience.
If they would really want to Support it here. They would basicly have to Run with an Double Control and Monitor Setup which Allows the Player to pretty much use VR for Piloting and then take off the VR when leaving the Pilot Seat.
This does in a certain way even make sense and would add some Immersion. But it would also mean extra System Requirements and pretty Complicated handling.
Its one of the Biggest No Goes for VR in Star Citizen right now.

Another Work around would be if SC integrates the Station and Game Systems so far. That People can Effectively Choose to Life aboerd their Ship without leaving it.
Meaning that you can Connect to Terminals etc from Aboard your Ship and thus dont actually need to bother with stuff like FPS Combat etc.

This is actually my Big Hope here for SC.
Elite Dangerous made an Critical Mistake in this.
They Try to Force the Player into doing EVERYTHING and use ALL FEATURES.
This is what is currently Killing the Game for me.
So I hope that SC does not make this Mistake and Instead allows each Player to Play the Way he wants. Meaning that if Someone actually wants to be a Pure Pilot. He has enough Jobs etc where he needs to leave his Spaceship almost never and most of all not for Combat or Something.





In General tough.
I agree.
I doubt SC is giving VR any Priority right now.
Its pretty Obvious that SC has chosen to work for the Normal PC Players rather than the VR Players.
Which is fine with me as an Normal Player. (Because lets be Honest. An VR Optimized System would be annoying for us Normal Players just like this one is annoying to VR Players) ^^

Can you share what frames per second you get and on what level of detail, please? The reason I ask is that I play ED on a system with an older nVidia mobile GFX card. It manages 25-30 FPS in combat and up to 60 in less complex environments. I think the absolute base for tolerable VR is 90 FPS?

So, I know I cannot do VR in ED until I go for a major system upgrade. No biggie: can't afford the upgrade, can't afford the VR headset :) I am happy that ED is VR-capable though, as other people seem to have a great experience with it.

You said "Elite Dangerous made an Critical Mistake in this.
They Try to Force the Player into doing EVERYTHING and use ALL FEATURES.
This is what is currently Killing the Game for me."

Which is an interesting, if subjective throwaway criticism. Would you care to expand on that? What are you forced to do? Mine Painite, use the SRV on planets to harvest resources for Engineers? I'm not clearly understanding your point of view.

You would prefer for there to be an ability to completely avoid any FPS or spacelegs / space rover in SC? Interesting. Must be frustrating when the game can look from the outside as people using taxis to get to a gunfight?
 
Lol VR support hasn't been dropped lol as a matter of fact the engine just got updated with even more VR compability...
VR support is currently impossible the way the game is designed. It's not a matter of the engine being able to do it — it's about the fundamentals of gameplay and presentation being inherently incompatible with the demands of VR.

Star Citizen was never announced as VR Game
…aside from being an explicit part of the kickstarted campaign. [rolleyes]

Besides they can add VR Support for Arena Commander where you don't even move in FPS or they can alter the camera to 3rd person whenever you have animations, or they can work the animations to better suit VR
Not without completely revamping the camera — again — and removing all the movements they've programmed in, and altering the camera to 3rd person is if anything an even worse idea since you've now completely kicked the brain out of anything it would expect.

The animations have to go. That is the only option. Yes, there are solutions to the problems they're having, but that solution is to dump all the pointless “immersive” junk that Chris has insisted on over the years because none of it works for this purpose — the two simply do not mix because they fundamentally work at cross-purpose. The chances of them throwing out all this work is pretty much nil, especially since doing so would have gameplay consequences since VR was not properly integrated from the get-go.
 
Last edited:
Because putting it precisely you did not Buy a Game.
You Funded an Project or rather Invested into the Funding of an Project.

What about those Grey market traders that infest SC for years,where do this"predators"belong?Do they funding the project or making their own investment?Game is not even in beta but thx to the generous CIG back-door-LTI-scheme those "GREYS"making the serious money based mostly on CR fairy tales and in return they doing shill-jobs pro-bono right'?
 
Last edited:
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom