The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Backer42

B
n4p0l3on said:
Let me challenge such kind of thoughts...

You said you don't want insta cargo load/unload, usually under the pretense of immersion and realism, but how about these :

1. Will you demand no insta ship startup? You want to fly the aurora? Do pass the non skippable 10 minutes startup sequence first, oops sorry there is no one I-win startup button either, you have to learn how your ship works, and memorize them.

2. You want to dock at a port? Do adhere the protocols first, if the atc told you to wait in the line and fly in circles for 20 minutes then you are obliged to comply.

3. You want to embark or disembark somewhere? please do follow the immigration and security procedures first.

Etc.

So, where do we draw the line for such immersion and realism? At what cost?
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You implement all this is into a single player simulation and let the player choose for themselves what they want to endure. Today you have fun manually loading cargo, tomorrow you click the insta-load button and take off right away. Single player game can offer options and variety.

But some guy at CIG decided at some point that SC is going to be another Massive Multiplayer Online Game and suddenly they are in the mess of having to balance everything around a shared real time universe. As a result you have players fighting over the direction of everything. Everyone ends up with some mix of mechanics they hate und like and can't be tailored to personal preferences. Just look at Elite Dangerous how that turns out, "ship transfer" is one of the more recent keywords.
 
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Zetta

Zetta
Backer42 said:
Just look at Elite Dangerous how that turns out, "ship transfer" is one of the more recent keywords.
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Ship transfers were certainly divisive and they were something that applied evenly to everybody. If CIG are 'penalising' traders then the traders are going to start complaining about other professions not having to wait for realism's sake. It could get quite messy.
 
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Stigbob

Stigbob
Zetta said:
Ship transfers were certainly divisive and they were something that applied evenly to everybody. If CIG are 'penalising' traders then the traders are going to start complaining about other professions not having to wait for realism's sake. It could get quite messy.
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They could balance that by having a long queue at the bounty claim office, health and safety inspections at mining sites, a three day criminal record check for buying weapons and sending exploration data off by mail to be stamped. There would be VIP fast tracks for subscribers though obviously.

It's a Vogon bureaucracy simulator, no wonder so many auditors seem to have invested.
 
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Martin Afonso

Martin Afonso
Do not forget realistic work schedules to fix your ship after being beaten in combat. Spare parts requested to the builder, unaccounted damage found during the job, specialized personnel availability... and a realistic hull loss declaration from time to time.
 
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Cmdr-Wotherspoon

Cmdr-Wotherspoon
Harbinger said:
Seems a little strange that people are celebrating it as new news in the comments section being that they've all been talking about it for the last couple of days already.
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I think I received it as an email a couple of days back. But I didn't read it then.

News about Star Citizen is a mildly oxymoronic concept. I use the Redacted podcast and the CIG videos to lull me to sleep because there's nothing to talk about, no surprises, every day is Groundhog Day. Item 2.0 is just around the corner, Squadron 42 will be released next year, there's a new ship sale, and there's speculation about how the game mechanics might work when they've been invented. It's a great cure for insomnia.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
McGlashan said:
And there's no mention of atmospheres.
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There is, see planetary update here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report


As for the 3.0 "schedule". In addition to having been stripped down from significant key content that was supposed / promised to be in it, it seems it is all aimed for end of June, including testing, i.e. barely 2 months from now. Given Chris Roberts past track record of continuous unpolished and non or late delivery I think the whole "schedule" is a stretch target and still primarily aimed to maintain funding motivation through imminence hype. 2 months + whatever CIG claims to have done so far is not too close to sound too ridiculous to willing backers and will help them maintain a reasonable hope. And it is never too far away to deflate the hype. Plus an eventual further delay to Gamescom time would still be probably forgiven by the community if announced in June... it is just another 2 months after all...

On the other hand this schedule is the first time that CIG seems to be explicitly acknowledging serious content cuts in order to release something earlier rather than later. I.e. where is everyone arguing for the "CIG take your time" and "a late game is eventually good but a rushed one is bad forever" in the case of 3.0? The community "schizophrenia" now supporting these cuts to release 3.0 earlier is amazing. Still to be seen if even this cut down version can make it as promised though and at what level of quality.

But if this eventually leads CIG to a return to more realistic time estimates, content promises, and proper self awareness far from ridiculous BDSSE bragging, I am all ears.
 
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Backer42

B
Viajero said:
As for the 3.0 "schedule". In addition to having been stripped down from significant key content that was supposed / promised to be in it, it seems it is all aimed for end of June, including testing, i.e. barely 2 months from now. Given Chris Roberts past track record of continuous unpolished and non or late delivery I think the whole "schedule" is a stretch target and still primarily aimed to maintain funding motivation through imminence hype. 2 months + whatever CIG claims to have done so far is not too close to sound too ridiculous to willing backers and will help them maintain a reasonable hope. And it is never too far away to deflate the hype. Plus an eventual further delay to Gamescom time would still be probably forgiven by the community.
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The whole "schedule" thing is just about dragging their money well along to the next E3/Gamescom Cinebox smoke & mirrors demo, which is in the works now for sure and always made with the goal of more "exclusive" press coverage for driving the sales. This is the reason why the "schedule" ends in June.

If backers get anything, it will be another little gimmick produced by an external contractor, retconned as "3.0".
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
Agony_Aunt said:
Very true. And just wait until that is realeased.... You'll see a lot more of this sort of thing once the dream starts to become a reality. A lot of things sound nice in practice, but once (if) implemented the complaints will happen.
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Agreed.

The problem CIG faces is that this game has lived in the wildest imaginations of their community, fed by CIG'S own hype, for far too long, and pretty much anything deliver is going to be met with a lot of unhappiness from a lot of players.

Neutering their own forums seems hugely unhelpful as well. Whilst the ED forums get a bit silly sometimes, nonetheless have a full and Frank exchange of views is a lot more healthy for the community and the game.
 

hairychris

hairychris
Stigbob said:
They could balance that by having a long queue at the bounty claim office, health and safety inspections at mining sites, a three day criminal record check for buying weapons and sending exploration data off by mail to be stamped. There would be VIP fast tracks for subscribers though obviously.

It's a Vogon bureaucracy simulator, no wonder so many auditors seem to have invested.
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I seem to remember that The Division had problems like this on launch. The NPC that gave out missions in the hub only handled one player at a time so you needed to queue/scrum to get served. They patched it out very quickly as it got a huge amount of flack.

A balance definitely has to be made realism vs fun. All games have it. From what I can see of Star Citizen there's very little 'realism' present anyway so I'd have assumed that CIG would tend towards gameplay experience over simulation.

The fact that CR/CIG/Citizens have declared it to be a simulator doesn't make it so. Not yet, at least!
 

Ben Parry

Ben Parry
Backer42 said:
The whole "schedule" thing is just about dragging their money well along to the next E3/Gamescom Cinebox smoke & mirrors demo, which is in the works now for sure and always made with the goal of more "exclusive" press coverage for driving the sales. This is the reason why the "schedule" ends in June.

If backers get anything, it will be another little gimmick produced by an external contractor, retconned as "3.0".
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I love this whole "Cinebox" thing. How does a person distinguish between engine and Cinebox? Is it some of the pixels?
 

Frank

Frank
Cmdr-Wotherspoon said:
I think I received it as an email a couple of days back. But I didn't read it then.

News about Star Citizen is a mildly oxymoronic concept. I use the Redacted podcast and the CIG videos to lull me to sleep because there's nothing to talk about, no surprises, every day is Groundhog Day. Item 2.0 is just around the corner, Squadron 42 will be released next year, there's a new ship sale, and there's speculation about how the game mechanics might work when they've been invented. It's a great cure for insomnia.
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I'm sure that's why Rolan gets so much praise on this thread. He always provides us with a TLDR summary as well.

He reads the news so you don't have to.
 

dsmart

Banned
D
Agony_Aunt said:
Very true. And just wait until that is realeased. The complaints from those who want insta load cargo will be loud and long.

Expect comments like "CIG want me to not play the game"

You'll see a lot more of this sort of thing once the dream starts to become a reality. A lot of things sound nice in practice, but once (if) implemented the complaints will happen.
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It's going to be all kinds of broken.

- cargo falling through the world
- ship leaving without cargo (stuck to the world)
- items missing in cargo
- cargo cannot be interacted with because server messages get lost
- cargo colliding with world entity, then flying off
- cargo not being created in the world after being created in UI
- cargo not surviving scene transition

Need I go on? And these are problems that are currently in the game in some form or another btw

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Ben Parry said:
Originally Posted by Backer42 (Source)
The whole "schedule" thing is just about dragging their money well along to the next E3/Gamescom Cinebox smoke & mirrors demo, which is in the works now for sure and always made with the goal of more "exclusive" press coverage for driving the sales. This is the reason why the "schedule" ends in June.

If backers get anything, it will be another little gimmick produced by an external contractor, retconned as "3.0".
Click to expand...

I love this whole "Cinebox" thing. How does a person distinguish between engine and Cinebox? Is it some of the pixels?
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Cinebox - a “new way to craft linear creative content with the ability to iterate on creative ideas: quickly”.

It's as if the worm was no joke. And that build was live. And it was a thing that was coming on|before Dec 19th.

Until it got retconned; like everything else that's Cinebox smoke and mirrors
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Ben Parry said:
I love this whole "Cinebox" thing. How does a person distinguish between engine and Cinebox? Is it some of the pixels?
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I try to stay out of the technical talk, and have no idea what a cinebox is, but to me the difference between fake and real is that all the stuff CIG shows and promises we'll have in our hands in days/weeks has not made it to my harddisk after years. Thats where I start to call things fake. :) And now we're gonna have 3.0 without the stuff they showed earlier, the stuff that was really all done and totally not-fake, and was just being held back because other stuff had to be done? Well, either include it in 3.0 or explain why suddenly it isnt ready to include a year after it was 'just dotting the i's'.
 
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Ben Parry

Ben Parry
sleutelbos said:
I try to stay out of the technical talk, and have no idea what a cinebox is, but to me the difference between fake and real is that all the stuff CIG shows and promises we'll have in our hands in days/weeks has not made it to my harddisk after years. Thats where I start to call things fake. :) And now we're gonna have 3.0 without the stuff they showed earlier, the stuff that was really all done and totally not-fake, and was just being held back because other stuff had to be done? Well, either include it in 3.0 or explain why suddenly it isnt ready to include a year after it was 'just dotting the i's'.
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Cinebox is a tool CryTek advertised a few times, an offshoot of CryEngine for authoring cutscenes or doing pre-vis work for cinema. But as far as I can tell, they never got around to releasing it.
 
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Tuub t Tute

T
Ben Parry said:
Cinebox is a tool CryTek advertised a few times, an offshoot of CryEngine for authoring cutscenes or doing pre-vis work for cinema. But as far as I can tell, they never got around to releasing it.
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Welcome back, Ben! I was beginning to worry you had been sent to Room 101 or something.
 
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