General / Off-Topic We may need to rethink Colonia

[Robin of Spiritwood]

FWIW, I'm fine with the word "Colonia" and consider it to reflect an act/aspiration of the whole of humanity - well the boldest of us anyhow.

Since the region is uninhabited and lifeless it cannot pose any even imaginary danger to the indigenous life, or cause any oppression. And while there may be grounds( IMHO debatable ones) to make changes to casually used language in the 2000's - that may not at all be the case in the 3000's.

 

[Pyrotiger]

Not liking what seems to be a bit of intellectual snobbery breaking out here, and I'm not sure how that contributes to the actual maturity that some are complaining about.

 

[lokvette]

Im reading this thread asking myself why I'm reading this thread, but cant stop reading it as I have to read it to belive it.

The words two, bob and bit prcedided by what a load of, come to mind and yet here I am still reading.

Oh to clafiy, no we dont have to rethink anything, bar me and the time lost reading this.

 

[jasonbarron]

Thanks jasonbarron.

Let the moderation team do the moderation if you will.

Okay dokey. Just wondering what the guidelines were

 

[Fractal_Shard]

I've followed the thread all day and read with interest the reactions of various posters. It has ignited a level of vitriol which has surprised me, to be honest. I always understood the foundation of sci-fi as being that which allowed us to imagine and explore an imaginary future different from the now. If that is not the corner-stone of sci-fi, I don't know what is. The OP raised - for me, at least - a very interesting exploration of how modern language might have inherited a mythology and sub-text that perhaps needs to be questioned. I was expecting a diverse and stimulating series of responses - some serious and some mocking. What I read is instead is nothing short of dismaying. Slurs and mock-offensive tones have abounded in spades. As a writer, I know how language is a powerful tool which can shape and perpetuate ideologies and agendas. To gainsay that is ignorant at best. At worst it is disingenuous. ED is primarily a player-driven, emergent game-play, model. Essential to that is the ability to question and develop things in-game which might seem natural or casual: to open out and explore new ideas and new ways of expressing things. It makes this game stimulating. Contingent on that is the openness and willingness to engage with new ideas or expressions - especially in the Exploration sub-forum. It seems that this has not happened. It seems, to paraphrase, that we have 'in'd the effable again . . .

I'm sorry I disagree, there is nothing wrong with the responses (most of them anyway) generated from this attempt to word police. This forum and the forum it was posted in is not a debate forum over word policing nor should it ever expect to be. To be honest the way you worded you post comes off as incredibly condescending and looks as if it is trying to invalidate the consensuses that were reached, which was, "we don't want politics of the real world in the game", "we don't want to be word policed", and finally, "we don't want the name changed"

I suppose I thought the Exploration forum by its very nature might have brought a maturity of responses outwith the general level of the other forums. I paraphrase Vonnegut here: 'any poster who expresses rage and loathing for a novel idea is preposterous. That poster is like a person who has put on full armour to attack a hot fudge sundae . . .'

The responses where relatively mature (some weren't but that's unavoidable). The quote doesn't quite fit because it's not a novel idea, it's not an original or striking idea, it is a terrible idea. As you saw from the responses almost everyone agrees with this sentiment.

 

[Macedonica]

It is because it is a game, it is escapism and we do not want real world oppressive thought control political "isms" being brought into an arena where we can re-invent ourselves in a fake persona, get into a fake ship and fly in a fake Galaxy.

And do fake FUN things.

Leave politics for the real world, its a dark depressing and very UNFUN place.

'We do not want'? Am I not part of your 'we'? And for what it's worth, your description of why people play games does not apply to me. And yet I play games. Clearly, the gaming community is broader than perhaps you prescribe - or dare I say colonise?

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

Lets not lower ourselves to petty semantics. its obvious and just a little trite.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Didn't read any of the replies, but my 2c...

OP, you partly answered yourself by pointing out the obvious difference between traditional colonisation (on Earth) compared to space. In space, there are no indigenous people, or "minorities" as you called them. (I'm ignoring aliens for the purposes of this discussion).

Secondly, using Colonia as the name can be a positive, as an example of benign colonisation.

 

[GunnerBill]

'We do not want'? Am I not part of your 'we'? And for what it's worth, your description of why people play games does not apply to me. And yet I play games. Clearly, the gaming community is broader than perhaps you prescribe - or dare I say colonise?

I'd say you're an edge case then. Because I'm pretty sure that the "we" Cdr Vorheez is referring to is the significant majority of the respondents in this thread who do not want political correctness to infect this game.

But I like your fancy words, highfalutin for sure!

 

[ilo]

I want to finish this discussion quick so we can start talking about slaves.

 

[Olivia Vespera]

There's a lot of comments in the last 3-4 pages since I wrote my last comment. I'd like to talk about them as much as I canr ight now!

Olivia a simple name change is small fry in the scheme of things, but where do you draw the line?

The elite background lore is full of atrocities. People can murder each other in this gameworld, and do every day. Should we ban PvP? There have been acts of terrorism conducted by all political parties in ED's history, should those be deleted from the timeline? What about Elite: Reclamation, its a part of the background lore, yet it has genocide as one of its central themes. Should that be re-written or stricken from the archives? What about the sentient alien species in Achenar that was wiped out when the Empire colonized the system, should that be re-written in case it offends people?

I appreciate the thought you've put into your argument, but you start with an intention that soon turns into a Pandora's box because wherever your line in the sand is drawn on a certain issue, is not where someone else draws theirs - and that's an issue as you're never going to appease everyone. All that happens is a rich history, whether its 'good' or 'bad', gets diluted or re-written to suit those who prefer a new sanitized narrative... or worse; prefer certain issues to be completely erased. Those are lines that should never be crossed (in game or out) imo.

I read what you wrote and here's what I think:
I'm not asking for Top-down moderation of our activities from Frontier. I'm asking Us as an Exploration community to be more aware and put some thought into the things we make for the community that may become added into the game permanently for everyone. I'm saying we as a community should self-moderate ourselves because we're in this new territory as gamers where we get to influence the world in a high degree. I don't know of any games out there (except maybe Eve) where Colonia would have been birth into existence by the community.

in fact: I'm not asking that the bad and ugly parts of history and lore of Elite: Dangerous be censored. I think I said the opposite even. That we don't erase the bad by using terminology that refers to those bad things in a good light.

I've noticed some folks asking how is this related to exploration and to that I say:
Colonia was our baby. We, the exploration community built, named and reside in Colonia. And thus, we kinda ought to take responsibility for what we set in motion.
The topic of this thread regarding the msiuse of the word, "Colonization" is related to Exploration because we made Colonia.

How amazing is that? We made something that loads of people can see in game. It's far from perfect but we're responsible it coming into being. With great power, comes even greater responsibility as a community.
This is why I initially posted this thread in Elite Exploration. Because it pertains to all of us. I'm sorry to note that enough people didn't agree with me in that.

Also with regards to things under our control. We do ban PvP in FleetComm.

I still see mentions about keeping politics out of elite dangerous so instead of hiding my response in a spoiler:
My response will always be:
[video=youtube;ryz_lA3Dn4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryz_lA3Dn4c&t=195s[/video]
If you really care about politics and elite:dangerous and keeping them separate, the above is required viewing to me.

Thank you, Whitman, Macedonica, Florenus, Jackie Silver, Ian Doncaster, Erimus and others I've missed for providing constructive input and support.

Thank you Tiger Baboy and Pirin for sharing your perspective as folks who come from a culture that was affected by Colonization

I'm sorry to everyone who had felt frustrated with this topic and continued to feel the need to engage in this thread. I had hoped we'd be able to consider these ideas because we're Explorers.
We're not Dangerous Discussion. I'm sad to see that we're almost as bad as they are.

 

[QBit4D]

Agreed. Let's gank all colonists out there.

You can start without me though. I've got a few things to do first...

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Didn't read any of the replies, but my 2c...

OP, you partly answered yourself by pointing out the obvious difference between traditional colonisation (on Earth) compared to space. In space, there are no indigenous people, or "minorities" as you called them. (I'm ignoring aliens for the purposes of this discussion).

Secondly, using Colonia as the name can be a positive, as an example of benign colonisation.

A lot of people on this thread have said the same as you but they've not addressed what was said in the article. I'm not sure if anyone actually read it or what I quoted: Lucianne Walkowicz said:

Even if words like “colonization” have a different context off-world, on somewhere like Mars, it’s still not OK to use those narratives, because it erases the history of colonization here on our own planet. There’s this dual effect where it both frames our future and, in some sense, edits the past.

She's not some nobody. She has chops. She's an astronomer who studied the ethics of Mars exploration as the Chair of Astrobiology at the U.S. Library of Congress.
What are your thoughts on what she said?

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

I am going to colonise my cargo hold with slaves and then colonise my bank balance with credits then colonise space with the cold dead body parts of Cmdrs I have plundered.

Not in Colonia though, and obviously not in open, I am a Mobian after all.

 

[bigity]

 

[withnail]

Obviously this is utterly ridiculous.

I'm proud to be a member of Archon Delaine, a slaver, murderer and sometimes cannibal (you should try the burgers).

But obviously in game. Out of the game I have a grip on reality and know these things are a foil to what is actually going on.

 

[Olivia Vespera]

Obviously this is utterly ridiculous.

I'm proud to be a member of Archon Delaine, a slaver, murderer and sometimes cannibal (you should try the burgers).

But obviously in game. Out of the game I have a grip on reality and know these things are a foil to what is actually going on.

Just to get an expansion, Why do you think it is ridiculous?

 

[withnail]

Just to get an expansion, Why do you think it is ridiculous?

Because it is 100% pure unadulterated claptrap.

 

[Stigbob]

Just to get an expansion, Why do you think it is ridiculous?

We live in a world where people are routinely killed, driven from their homes or imprisoned for their sexuality, skin color, religion the list is unfortunately endless. Horrible stuff going on all the time pretty much everywhere.

Worry about the terminology when we've fixed the actual practical issues and nobodies dying for this rubbish.

In this case you want a word removed from a video game because its an ancient version of colony (roman I think) which you disapprove of even though in the game world you get summarily executed for taking too long to park your spaceship whilst hauling drugs and slaves. Seems a bit of a silly thing to focus on given what else is happening.

I've never hauled slaves in game, as I very strongly disapprove and just don't want to touch it. It's only a game though and I only ever apply that rule to myself.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

A lot of people on this thread have said the same as you but they've not addressed what was said in the article. I'm not sure if anyone actually read it or what I quoted: Lucianne Walkowicz said:


She's not some nobody. She has chops. She's an astronomer who studied the ethics of Mars exploration as the Chair of Astrobiology at the U.S. Library of Congress.
What are your thoughts on what she said?

IMO, what Lucianne Walkowicz says about RL is completely irrelevant to a fictional game universe.

If anybody feels upset about the use of the word colonisation or Colonia in ED, they should probably have a reality check and realise it's just pixels on a screen, and players love fantasy role-playing in ways that might be completely abhorrent to them IRL. Context is everything.