FD utter failure: engineering brought to an excess

[Nutter]

Seal clubbing has been around for years and years.

That's why we have groups and solo play.

When it comes to Exploration coupled with focus points like Community goals and meeting points you a guaranteed to find seal clubbers.

If you don't want to go pop in nanno seconds then go Solo or take a risk in a group, which can be avoided in hotspot areas by simply going Solo. But if you want to play with friends then the best solution is to make your own group.

 

[StuartGT]

Very well. I will take my leave then if you are incapable of respecting my opinion.

How rude of you, disrespecting others' opinions.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I dunno what Elite discord you belong to, but all the ones I've seen would mock someone whining about ganks, and be much less civil about it to boot.

I was going to say clearly he's in the wrong discords!

 

[StuartGT]

er, you've come to the wrong spot; it's near as bad as the reddit. Try Discord for some sense; most of the CMDRs there act like they are older than 11.

The main Elite Discord would laugh at the OP's premise.

 

[voidwalker]

Very well. I will take my leave then if you are incapable of respecting my opinion. Have a good day.

"Disagreement" is not a synonym for "disrespect".

 

[StuartGT]

Oh those brave BRAVE gankers killing largely undefended ships that aren't expecting attack.

The are all SO BRAVE. Someone please give them medals for BRAVERY. They are heroes. Because they are so BRAVE to take on un-armed and un-armoured vessels that are not even expecting combat, in a private group where they believe they were safe. Safe from little schoolboys who still live at home with mum because they haven't learned how to microwave chicken tendies yet but are very angry at the world for not loving them, just because they are unsociable little creeps . BUT THEY ARE SO BRAVE. SO VERY BRAVE.

Please give the gankers medals FD? Please? They have been so brave and done such a good thing.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Killing any under-shielded/armoured ship will always be a doddle, a quick burst of my Anacondas multicannons can shred a harmless Eagle instantly.

Just like in Skyrim, my archer can one shot one of those undead Dragur thingies, after a few level ups.

Explorers chose lightweight, and ultimate range over survivability.
So being killed in seconds is a consequence of their choice.
There's a good chance an NPC could kill them just as quickly.

My exploration ships always have a good, modified shield, and heavy duty lightweight armour, and a good PD, and best thrusters, so not only can I escape, I can also bounce off high g worlds and survive. Lol

Engineering has allowed everyone* to drastically increase the survivability of their ships, to the point where death is optional.

Unfortunately, engineering also allowed us to increase our damage output, which means weaker ships can taken down in 1 shot.

But it's the nature of progression. I've been one shotted as a newbie in other MMOs by level 99+ folk with seemingly nothing better to do. No hope of winning, or even escaping, just death. Lol

*Everyone with Horizons

The problem with explorers is they're mostly in "anarchy" systems so there's no help coming from anyone. The only way to fix that, is buff ATR, and make every unknown system high security. Lol
Or explorers can install better defences, instead of min-maxing.

 

[Tiili]

Now that you guys got it all out of your systems, what would be the appropriate time for a max combat engineered corvette to kill a super light asp?

We know for sure that the OP doesn't want one click kills, but even going for 2 would most likely require at least twice as much effective HP on the asp, probably even more as 7 hardpoints could dish out potentially more damage in a click than the asp has as health.
What about a t-10 with 9 torpedo launchers, that's 1080dmg/click?

What about module damage? I'm quite sure even a stock sidewinder with railguns could take down the exploration asps powerplant in a few well placed hits.

 

[M00ka]

Killing any under-shielded/armoured ship will always be a doddle, a quick burst of my Anacondas multicannons can shred a harmless Eagle instantly.

Just like in Skyrim, my archer can one shot one of those undead Dragur thingies, after a few level ups.

Explorers chose lightweight, and ultimate range over survivability.
So being killed in seconds is a consequence of their choice.
There's a good chance an NPC could kill them just as quickly.

My exploration ships always have a good, modified shield, and heavy duty lightweight armour, and a good PD, and best thrusters, so not only can I escape, I can also bounce off high g worlds and survive. Lol

Engineering has allowed everyone* to drastically increase the survivability of their ships, to the point where death is optional.

Unfortunately, engineering also allowed us to increase our damage output, which means weaker ships can taken down in 1 shot.

But it's the nature of progression. I've been one shotted as a newbie in other MMOs by level 99+ folk with seemingly nothing better to do. No hope of winning, or even escaping, just death. Lol

*Everyone with Horizons

The problem with explorers is they're mostly in "anarchy" systems so there's no help coming from anyone. The only way to fix that, is buff ATR, and make every unknown system high security. Lol
Or explorers can install better defences, instead of min-maxing.

One of the aspects of Battlefield 2 that I really appreciated was someone playing their first game could kill a General with 2,000 hours in the game. The only difference between the two is experience in playing the game. Unfortunately ED is the exact opposite.

 

[voidwalker]

Unfortunately ED is the exact opposite.

Are you sure about that?

Two points. 1. In Battlefield, everyone is an armed combatant. We're talking about non-combat ships vs combat ships. There's a very significant difference there. Battlefield is also a very arcadey FPS. Try beating the 'generals' in a game of ArmA KOTH on day one of your experience, let me know how that goes.

2. you can do the same thing in elite. A day-one player in a freewinder can pop most of the exploration builds out there, and even quite a few of the PVE combat ships built by many players.

You're making quite a few assumptions with that assertion, including assumptions about players you don't know anything about.

 

[M00ka]

Are you sure about that?

Two points. 1. In Battlefield, everyone is an armed combatant. We're talking about non-combat ships vs combat ships. There's a very significant difference there.

2. you can do the same thing in elite. A day-one player in a freewinder can pop most of the exploration builds out there, and even quite a few of the PVE combat ships built by many players.

You're making quite a few assumptions with that assertion, including assumptions about players you don't know anything about.

Can that day one player in his freewinder pop a meta-build PvP ship?

 

[voidwalker]

Can that day one player in his freewinder pop a meta-build PvP ship?

I don't know. That would depend on the player. I don't make assumptions about people I don't know, but the answer would be, 'probably not'. Can that same player kill an experienced player in an identical freewinder? Also probably not, because experience matters, and is a factor. And it should be a factor, but not the only factor. Can a day-one fighter pilot with no training at all shoot down an enemy fighter before the enemy shoots him down? Also probably not, but again, I'm not going to make assumptions about any pilot. I know most people love simple answers, but you've asked me a question that has none. You've also not asked me a question that has any relevance to anything wrong with the way this game is designed. Just because a day-one player in some arcade FPS can tangle with the 'best' doesn't mean every other game needs to emulate the casual nature of such a game.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Watching a video of gankers killing explorers in one, two volleys of cannons. I like pvp, but this is not pvp, this is a click once to win mechanic.

Thinking how beautiful and fun this game is and how hard developers failed in balancing attack and defense.

I want everyone to play in open, but engineering (nice addition) was brought to an excess.

I would gladly fight back, but then I am shut off from all the exploring and other cool things this update brought because I do not have time to explore 30 or less ly per jump and I cannot bring all the stuff I need.

If there was more balance between a pvp build and explorer build it would be feasible.

This is not a problem of engineering. This problem osis playermade!
The engineers brought us the possibility of highly specialised ship builds which was demanded and it fulfills it's purpose very good. But cmdrs in paper thin ships sitting like a duck in open is not a problem of the game mechanic
Everybody knows the risks, and everybody who died was aware of that and does not care about it or at least just see it as a minor backstep.
We can make choices and this is good. That others like to hunt easy prey is nothing new and even before engineers it was that way. An exploration ship is not supposed to stand against a combat fitted ship. Skill and experience is needed to prevent such situations

 

[StuartGT]

One of the aspects of Battlefield 2 that I really appreciated was someone playing their first game could kill a General with 2,000 hours in the game.

Only because of teammates in the army-vs-army battles. If it was 1 vs 1, the topic of this thread, the general would consistently win, usually via one-shotting/head-shots because of their far superior skill and loadout/map knowledge.

Thanks for reinforcing the point that one-shotting is good, and can be defended against.

 

[Old Duck]

FD utter failure: engineering brought to an excess

As someone who plays in Solo, I didn't care that Engineering was OP, as I myself purposefully engineer my ships below their min / max potentials to keep the game challenging and realistic. Then Frontier gave the NPCs engineered ships, FA-off (which is cheating when done by an NPC), permaboost, and an aggressive yet drunk AI. This is what has ruined combat for me. And I blame all you people who do engineer your ships to min / max and then complain that NPCs are too easy. Frontier listened to you, and now we have this mess. It's almost like the PvPers have reached into Solo and are griefing me by proxy, LOL.

And to anyone who would answer with a "git gud", if you were such a good pilot, you wouldn't need a min / max engineered Corvette or FDL with ridiculous specs in order to "win". I'm much more proud of my kills in my Sidewinder than I am of victories in my modestly-engineered BattleConda. The only thing the average griefer is "gud" at is following Coriolis recipes and grinding mats. And now Frontier has copied the griefer's formula for success, giving NPCs with crap AI engineered ships to make up for their lack in flying skills.

/rant

 

[M00ka]

Only because of teammates in the army-vs-army battles. If it was 1 vs 1, the topic of this thread, the general would consistently win, usually via one-shotting/head-shots because of their far superior skill and loadout/map knowledge.

Thanks for reinforcing the point that one-shotting is good, and can be defended against.

Actually you would be surprised. Due to the nature of the game and the restrictions in the ladder match rules, most experienced players used the basic weapons (as unlocks were not permitted in ladder matches). Rank didn't give you extra armour or better weapons. All I am saying is that due to the mechanics of the game, a player in his first match could kill a vastly more experienced player. Yes there had to be a lot of luck involved as the experienced player knew the maps better, movement and concealment etc. But I saw enough high rankers get taken down by some lowly private with a lucky shot and there was no defence against it

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

One of the aspects of Battlefield 2 that I really appreciated was someone playing their first game could kill a General with 2,000 hours in the game. The only difference between the two is experience in playing the game. Unfortunately ED is the exact opposite.

I loved Battlefield 2.

But Battlefield is a dedicated PvP game. It's a bit different to an open world MMO-y type game.
In Battlefield, everyone was basically the same, with a few balanced specialties on top.

ED is most definitely not a dedicated PvP game, it's closer to a PvE game with PvP tacked on.

However, if you stuck 2 CMDRs in stock Sidewinders, then things are equal, apart from knowledge and skill.

Admittedly, with no engineering, it all came down to outfitting and skill.
But with new engineering, everyone* can make their ships equally tough, or atleast tough enough to escape.

*Again, you need horizons

 

[Saool]

ED just needs a law and order system. Until then, there are private groups.

 

[Tiili]

As someone who plays in Solo, I didn't care that Engineering was OP, as I myself purposefully engineer my ships below their min / max potentials to keep the game challenging and realistic. Then Frontier gave the NPCs engineered ships, FA-off (which is cheating when done by an NPC), permaboost, and an aggressive yet drunk AI. This is what has ruined combat for me. And I blame all you people who do engineer your ships to min / max and then complain that NPCs are too easy. Frontier listened to you, and now we have this mess. It's almost like the PvPers have reached into Solo and are griefing me by proxy, LOL.

And to anyone who would answer with a "git gud", if you were such a good pilot, you wouldn't need a min / max engineered Corvette or FDL with ridiculous specs in order to "win". I'm much more proud of my kills in my Sidewinder than I am of victories in my modestly-engineered BattleConda. The only thing the average griefer is "gud" at is following Coriolis recipes and grinding mats. And now Frontier has copied the griefer's formula for success, giving NPCs with crap AI engineered ships to make up for their crappy flying skills.

/rant

Looking at your sig, I think you're still stuck at Anger I suggest to start fighting the thargoids so PVP greefing doesn't creep into your solo experience

 

[M00ka]

I loved Battlefield 2.

But Battlefield is a dedicated PvP game. It's a bit different to an open world MMO-y type game.
In Battlefield, everyone was basically the same, with a few balanced specialties on top.

ED is most definitely not a dedicated PvP game, it's closer to a PvE game with PvP tacked on.

However, if you stuck 2 CMDRs in stock Sidewinders, then things are equal, apart from knowledge and skill.

Admittedly, with no engineering, it all came down to outfitting and skill.
But with new engineering, everyone* can make their ships equally tough, or atleast tough enough to escape.

*Again, you need horizons

Agreed the skill aspect has fallen to the wayside in ED but don't forget that according to some here if you play in Open it is a dedicated PvP game, they have made that distinction quite clear.