Please reduce travel times in the bubble

[Ian Doncaster]

Unless it doesn't indicate to what system you are going you can merely check the distances to the stations, if not available in the sys-map (IIRC all stations are shown before you ever visit a system and scan it) you can use EDDB.IO.

Not every mission has a station as a destination - quite a few will just direct you to the vicinity of a planet, and not tell you which one until you're in the system. Quite a few systems have distant binary partners with no stations out there, so they're absolutely fine for trade missions, but you can get a long trip if you pick them for e.g. surface salvage...

The system map will not show you the location of stations in a system you've never been to, unless it's a high-population system which comes pre-scanned.

Installations, megaships and tourist beacons are not marked on the system map, and nor are their positions catalogued in EDDB or similar. Combat zones similarly there's no guarantee that any particular system will generate them close to the primary star (though most do).

A few mission types have you go to system A (mentioned in the mission) where a contact will then tell you to go to system B (could be anywhere within 20 LY), so good luck assessing those in advance.

Yes, if you're extremely cautious and avoid several mission types entirely, you can avoid having to travel long supercruise distances. But that's very much a workaround for the problem.

 

[VR Golgot]

Not every mission has a station as a destination - quite a few will just direct you to the vicinity of a planet, and not tell you which one until you're in the system. Quite a few systems have distant binary partners with no stations out there, so they're absolutely fine for trade missions, but you can get a long trip if you pick them for e.g. surface salvage...

The system map will not show you the location of stations in a system you've never been to, unless it's a high-population system which comes pre-scanned.

Installations, megaships and tourist beacons are not marked on the system map, and nor are their positions catalogued in EDDB or similar. Combat zones similarly there's no guarantee that any particular system will generate them close to the primary star (though most do).

A few mission types have you go to system A (mentioned in the mission) where a contact will then tell you to go to system B (could be anywhere within 20 LY), so good luck assessing those in advance.

Yes, if you're extremely cautious and avoid several mission types entirely, you can avoid having to travel long supercruise distances. But that's very much a workaround for the problem.

Consummately put Mr D!

 

[Riverside]

Yes, if you're extremely cautious and avoid several mission types entirely, you can avoid having to travel long supercruise distances. But that's very much a workaround for the problem.

Being selective with your mission choice, or open to the idea of giving it a go & possibly failing to complete it isn't a workaround, it is the solution

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Being selective with your mission choice, or open to the idea of giving it a go & possibly failing to complete it isn't a workaround, it is the solution

Hah. The solution is to move to Colonia where the furthest station is 30,000 Ls and most are within 3,000 ... and distant secondary stars are relatively rare in the inhabited systems. It also solves the other "make moving around the bubble faster" issue when you can get between any two systems in 2-3 jumps with a mid-range ship.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Not every mission has a station as a destination - quite a few will just direct you to the vicinity of a planet, and not tell you which one until you're in the system. Quite a few systems have distant binary partners with no stations out there, so they're absolutely fine for trade missions, but you can get a long trip if you pick them for e.g. surface salvage...

The system map will not show you the location of stations in a system you've never been to, unless it's a high-population system which comes pre-scanned.

Installations, megaships and tourist beacons are not marked on the system map, and nor are their positions catalogued in EDDB or similar. Combat zones similarly there's no guarantee that any particular system will generate them close to the primary star (though most do).

A few mission types have you go to system A (mentioned in the mission) where a contact will then tell you to go to system B (could be anywhere within 20 LY), so good luck assessing those in advance.

Yes, if you're extremely cautious and avoid several mission types entirely, you can avoid having to travel long supercruise distances. But that's very much a workaround for the problem.

Avoiding long travel completely is difficult but in all honesty avoiding it for the vast majority of times is easy, adressing your points:

1º Planet distances are still marked in the sys-map and if that's not available then you can use EDDB thus you can look for missions on which the target system is small overall and surface salvages only use landable planets so that's an extra filter.

2º It's been a long while since I made a mission so I concede that point though EDDB still marks it.

3º All of those spawn close to planets so you can apply 1º and IIRC when you take a tourist mission you get told to which planet you'll go, in that planet you'll find the tourist beacon.

4º True, I can't think of a way to evade those although considering the tedium I can hardly believe they are of much use when manipulating the BGS.

5º IMO there are more than enough ways to evade the vast majority of these cases (ED is not a perfect information game) but I agree that SC should be more engaging if that's what you want.

 

[Darkfyre99]

But keep long travel times outside the bubble.

Its stopping me from playing.

For me, 10/20 mins staring at screen to get somewhere is ok if exploring new frontiers or the odd long range mission or something. Not ok for the majority of missions, mining, trade, bounty etc

It is possible to go from taking off at one station to landing at about 90% of the stations in the Bubble that are a single jump away, in a type-9 no less, in under four minutes... if you actively pilot your ship. This includes leaving through the station slot, getting out of mass lock range, charging for a jump, a single jump through Hyperspace, the journey through Supercruise, and docking at your arrival station.

Travel times in the Bubble are not the problem. The problem is that far to many players are content to fly “hands off” for most of their journey, altering neither course nor throttle setting, and thus their trips take considerably longer than they would if they took advantage of optimal routes through a system, as well as the mechanics of Supercruise. It also leaves them extremely vulnerable to interdiction from both NPCs and players.

If you want to improve your Bubble travel times, there’s some simple things you can do:
1) check your destination station. If it’s more than a kilo-light second away from the arrival point, consider whether the extra travel time is worthwhile.

2) Do not fly in the orbital plane of the system. Nearby mass slows down your ship, and there’s a lot of mass in the orbital plane, some of which may not be visible but whose effects are present. It also helps you maintain situational awareness, which makes avoiding interdictions easier.

3) Alter course to avoid planets along your flight path. Their mass will slow you down a lot, even if you’re above or below the orbital plane.

4) Do not use the “six second rule” or keeping your throttle in the blue to avoid the so-called “Loop of Shame.” That loop is actually faster than either technique. Faster still is using the braking effect of mass to slow your ship quickly, by skimming the exclusion or orbitable zone as you fly past.

 

[SpaceScania]

Just want to weigh-in here as I am familiar with OA's video and the general theme of the discussion.

I think the travel times in Elite are actually fine. I do think there are a few more things that Frontier could do to make the travel in systems a bit more fun, but overall I think it is part of the game I'd be sad to lose. I do love GalNet audio as an example, I just wish there was more content on GalNet to consume while I am flying about.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Just did a go fetch mission: found several signal sources in the system I was purchasing the goods from, all of which ended in me picking up loot. I guess Frontier puts that stuff there for the "engineering's too grindy" crowd! I have no problem with that, I like loot! But it means I'm not just sitting there while the ship's in supercruise, I'm looking around for stuff, so I just don't get the "supercruise is boring" crowd. In fact I'm starting to think the "engineering's too grindy" crowd and the "supercruise is too boring crowd" are the same bloody crowd. Also known as the "my glass is half empty" crowd!

IMO it all stems from the same type of mindset: serial thinking as opposed to parallel thinking. They work on just one thing at a time, whether it’s engineering, credits, ranking, or whatever. They also tailor their ships for just one task, to the point where it can’t do anything else. They’ve got blinders on, so they don’t see what’s available around them.

Personally, I fly multi-role ships in the Bubble, and keep my eyes open for opportunities. See a USS along my flight route? It only takes a few seconds to see what type it is, and the size one collector limpet I have installed can sweep up whatever mats are there should I drop in. NPC Pirate? I’ve got guns and strong shields. Running on an errand on the Surface? Time do do a little low altitude flying 50 km out, and drop in any surface POI I find.

 

[CMDR Slee Piboi]

 

[777Driver]

4) Do not use the “six second rule” or keeping your throttle in the blue to avoid the so-called “Loop of Shame.” That loop is actually faster than either technique. Faster still is using the braking effect of mass to slow your ship quickly, by skimming the exclusion or orbitable zone as you fly past.

All very good advice, should be noted that Supercruise assist is faster than all those methods. As long as you fly the ship at full throttle and allow assist to do the emergency drop when locked to the destination port.

Personally I say whats the rush.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

I could see this done by changing the “trade routes”. If orbit lines are on, these should be visible, and if one stays in the lane then they get a buff to SC acceleration.

Pirates/attackers benefit because they have a set spot to look for a score. Taking a longer less trafficked route may be safer. Could create fun dynamics

I stand by the fact that this would allow people to travel faster without creating new problems

 

[Darkfyre99]

There was an obsidan ant youtube view on the topic a few days ago. He's a bit of a pied piper for the reddit cult.

I remember watching that video, and when he described Supercruise in Elite: Dangerous, all I could think was, "If you're describing Supercruise as 'hands off' gameplay, no wonder you think it takes a long time to get anywhere."

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I remember watching that video, and when he described Supercruise in Elite: Dangerous, all I could think was, "If you're describing Supercruise as 'hands off' gameplay, no wonder you think it takes a long time to get anywhere."

Well yeah. That's one of the first rites of passage in elite, when you discover headlook is the point of supercruise. No sure how it wouldnt drive you mad without it.

 

[Darkfyre99]

IIRC we disagree on a few things, but I totally agree with you here. Supercruise on average takes what, five minutes? Maybe 10 if your destination is a few thousand Ls away? It's a short break to do something else in my book. The only people I'd understand being mad about it is the VR crowd, who kinda have to do nothing for all that time.

First, Supercruise IME takes about a minute and a half to two minutes on average, if you're taking advantage of the Supercruise mechanics by actually using hands-on flying. It might take three or four if you're destination is between a thousand to ten thousand kilo light seconds.

Second, as a VR user and a hands-on flyer, I have plenty to do during that time: keep one eye out for good USSs to drop in on, keep a second eye on the scanner for potential pilots, plan my gravity braking maneuver, execute my gravity braking maneuver, and sometimes just marvel at the splendor created by the Stellar Forge outside my bridge's windows.

 

[Darkfyre99]

As for average super-cruise times, I do not care to speculate about what they might be but I would guestimate 5k-10k Ls is probably the modal average for system sizes in general with 100k-300k Ls being next in the order of frequent occurrence and anything in excess of that being quite rare.

Just in case you're interested, I double checked with EDDB.io, and approximately 60% of all stations are within on kilo-light second of arrival, 75% are within two kilo-light seconds of arrival, and 90% are within 10 kilo-light seconds of arrival.

 

[sewerratuk]

Just in case you're interested, I double checked with EDDB.io, and approximately 60% of all stations are within on kilo-light second of arrival, 75% are within two kilo-light seconds of arrival, and 90% are within 10 kilo-light seconds of arrival.

But those 10% long distance ones turn up 9 times out of 10.

 

[Jack Schitt]

The "Slow down" warning does not ask you to slow down.

I know, that's why I ignore it!

It's actually pretty useless most of the time to be honest. It's kind of an indication that you may have overcooked something, but as a tool for making a decision it's pointless. You get a better sense of what's going on by a combination of trial and error, looking at the raw numbers and/or listening to the audio. The only time the red warning imparts anything useful is when it turns blue.

 

[Ipecac]

That's an anti-gameplay mechanic, but useful if you feel the call of nature coming on or you are in need of refreshment.

I don't think SCA is and "anti-gameplay mechanic." You spaceship computer performs navigational tasks for you, and setting a controlled rate of deceleration is no different from the fact you dont have to hold your finger on the throttle to keep the thrust on.

Other computer assists I'd like to see is something that identifies identical surface signals. That way you can see if water geysers are 8 of 10 signals without having to fly to each one.

A mechanic that removes a route task that requires no finesse or involvement is usually a good one. Now I dont mean necessary tasks like flying between plants to FSS.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Are there technical reasons why this was never done, or are the limits there to allow time and space for interdiction? If it's the latter, what about removing the acceleration caps but increasing the gravity well braking effects? Pilots would be more likely to fly parabolic courses to minimise the slowdown (some already do this) while interdictors would be forced to operate nearer to planets and stars, where it's arguably a more interesting place to fight anyway. Alternatively, make the maximum rate of change for acceleration dependent upon FSD size and/or engineering, so fast interceptors would still be able to catch slower ships even in systems with few bodies.

I can't remember if you had Alpha access, but the initial iteration of Supercruise did, in fact, have a larger gravity well braking effect (aka mass shadow). Due to complaints about Supercruise taking "too long" at the time, Frontier nerfed the mass shadows quite a bit. The net effect was decreased travel times for those who used the "six second" or "blue zone" rules, and increased travel times for those of us who flew actively, by avoiding planets and using the braking effects of gravity wells.

Personally, I don't want FSD size, and especially engineering, to affect Supercruise performace. It's the one area of the game where people who have the most time to grind don't have an advantage of everyone else, only skill matters, and small ships have an advantage over large ships.

 

[Ipecac]

It isn't about time, it is about not having anything to do during that time. The solution I and others want isn't to shorten the time, because, again, time isn't the issue. Lack of gameplay is.

Somehow being able to use the fss during long trips would help. Spacelegs offers tons of opportunities. But in any case, a game where large amounts of time are spend doing quite literally nothing is poorly designed in that aspect. And saying "well, maybe this game isn't for you then." is silly by default, and laughably so when you tell it to someone who has played thousands of hours since launch and is triple elite.

I too am super looking forward to space legs. I think, though, that if you've already done literally everything in Elite, maybe wait for the next update.

I still have to find something new in the galaxy. I also need to affect a change of government in a system and then get Involved in the turmoil or opportunity.

I'm hoping next year they add space legs, and also a huge load of planetary features like new surfaces, new poise etc.
I also think water worlds would be a cool landable planet. Especially once there was a human station on the surface. Just a platform in the sea. Could be awesome.