The Quest To Find Raxxla
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Well, if you put it like that, I cant really argue! Some very well thought out clearly articulated scenariosBefore I explain where I'm coming from on this, I'm just going to restate that I don't think there's anything wrong with asking.
Coming back to the what was said about asking if a product has a feature implemented, I think what I'd ultimately say is that yes, it's completely reasonable to expect a straight answer from the supplier if what's being asked about is a feature that's there for everyone to use and re-use, and one person's use of it doesn't effect it for others.
However, ED's a multiplayer game with everyone playing in the same game universe and with a game universe that proceeds in real time. Raxxla is very possibly not a feature of the product in terms of people's personal copies of the game client, but is rather effectively something that's a feature of the game universe. By the nature of that game universe and the way that players interact with it both in and out of the client, it's also very possible that anything involving Raxxla will represent an irreversible change that effects everyone. There's no rewinds, and there's no replays when it comes to major events in the game universe. Once something has happened, it's happened, and it's happened for everyone.
In other words, there's potential impact covering all players, even including non-current ones. Which means they have to be much more careful in what they say than in a scenario where what's being asked about is about personal re-usable features.
Considering matters in that context, to what extent they can answer very much depends on the nature of the situation, which we don't really know enough about to make a call on whether they can answer.
Also, we don't know how they'd be able to answer, if they can, and what the effects might be. For a few examples of what could happen:
- What if answering one way or the other would constitute giving a clue? (for example, depending on the question's wording, an answer of yes could rule out particular sets of systems')
- What if they answer, but the phrasing of the question and answer allows for a get out clause? - 'well it may have read like we were saying X, but we actually meant Y'
- What if someone is able to work something out from the answer? And what if it's incontrovertible that it's been worked out correctly, but turns out to be completely wrong, because the answer had been given without taking into account that that thing could be deduced from it?
- What if they answer in a way that people can read into and jump to all sort of wrong conclusions which will then be circulated all over?
(To add to the last point above, no matter how clearly they answer, they will be unable to do so in a way in which some won't read into it something that was never ever in any way what was said. - have seen it happen too many times)
Various hypothetical Q&A scenarios below to illustrate.
Q: Is it possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: Yes, when the game reaches the appropriate point.
Consequences: massive fuss kicks off when at a later date it transpires what the answer actually meant
Q: Is it possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: No.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: No, because it's not something that can just be randomly found by anyone. It is something that will effectively find a very small number of select players / will emerge to everyone at the same time / etc.
Issues: Saying No will cause a lot of fuss. Saying the full answer will give the game away, and spoil things.
Q. Is it currently possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: Yes, however it will require the Gnosis's jump range, will rely on correctly guessing which of many systems can only be reached using the Gnosis's jump range, and as it's 50,000 ly to the jump point is going to take the Gnosis 100 weeks to reach anyway.
Issues: Massive fuss when it comes out what the Yes actually meant.
Q. Is it currently possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes, it can be randomly found.
Issues: Places limits on the nature of Raxxla. Places limits on the location of Raxxla. i.e. - constitutes a clue.
Other things to consider:
- what if Raxxla changes location, how would that be answered without giving something away? What if the answer is currently yes, but in a weeks time will be no because Raxxla has changed location and is now in a Permit Locked region?
- what if there's a mechanism that's temporarily been put on hold or is having to be changed? How can they answer without giving something away?
- what if the answer amounts to 'it can be discovered, but can't currently be accessed'? How can they answer accurately without giving something away or misleading people.
- what if the answer they give means nothing to you, but someone else is able to work out a key bit of info from it, finds Raxxla from it, announces the discovery, and scuppers the awesome in game Raxxla discovery journey/event that FD has been lining up for everyone to participate in?
And so on and so forth.
Long and short, it's potentially a bit of a minefield, and personally I'd say they'd be pretty crazy to head into it unless they're actually at a point where they want to start giving things away.
Again, no harm in asking though, and who knows you might actually get a response.
oh no! who will look after Cally?Gan is dead, I'm afraid.
crushed by rocks holding a door open for his friends.
I think only two engineers were confirmed by Premonition as having links to the Club: Elvira Martuk and Bill Turner. Still trust Felicity, want Lori’s phone number, Palin definitely untrustworthy.
the other evening was watching a dvd of a 1970s tv series (Lotus Eaters) where a woman went mad, saw tarantulas everywhere, and killed her spouse with a cricket bat to swat the spiders on him. Everyone in Scytale’s family- quickly remove any cricket bats from his vicinity! Perhaps he’s been reading Wind in the Willows late at night after wine & cheese
It might be that Raxxla is indeed within the bubble. There are a couple of locked systems there with no apparent source of the permit; Witches Reach (I think) springs to mind, but there is also an unpopulated system quite close to Shinrarta which I’ve had suspicions over. Since there is no faction there it seems impossible to get the permit, but possibly there is a route via TDW? (Edit: and Raxxla or TDW station might well be hidden in an unpopulated system). Having a permit-locked system would be an easy way for DB to be able to say they knew why nobody had found Raxxla- they know that nobody has the permit. It would be easy programming to monitor personal status and flag up an alarm when somebody gets a specific permit.
In which case in the Codex the DW toast, Omphalos, & Astrophel would all be filler with no substance.... discuss!
P.s. I’m friendly with all engineers (inc Colonia) but the new one, l5 with all but one I think (l3 with one in Colonia), but never received any invite. I think this line of thought is a red herring.
Speaking of permit locked systems in the bubble, what’s with Alpha Hydri? I never see it mentioned and I’ve found no data on it.
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Do you have any particular interest in Alpha Hydri? As far as I'm aware it's just another permit-locked Bubble system.
No, other than it’s a random system to find permit locked in that location. Nothing I’ve found points to it in particular, but I never see it mentioned (it wasn’t even listed in the player spreadsheet of permit locked systems when I last checked, which is weird).
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Deep ASF. Mind completely blownBefore I explain where I'm coming from on this, I'm just going to restate that I don't think there's anything wrong with asking.
Coming back to the what was said about asking if a product has a feature implemented, I think what I'd ultimately say is that yes, it's completely reasonable to expect a straight answer from the supplier if what's being asked about is a feature that's there for everyone to use and re-use, and one person's use of it doesn't effect it for others.
However, ED's a multiplayer game with everyone playing in the same game universe and with a game universe that proceeds in real time. Raxxla is very possibly not a feature of the product in terms of people's personal copies of the game client, but is rather effectively something that's a feature of the game universe. By the nature of that game universe and the way that players interact with it both in and out of the client, it's also very possible that anything involving Raxxla will represent an irreversible change that effects everyone. There's no rewinds, and there's no replays when it comes to major events in the game universe. Once something has happened, it's happened, and it's happened for everyone.
In other words, there's potential impact covering all players, even including non-current ones. Which means they have to be much more careful in what they say than in a scenario where what's being asked about is about personal re-usable features.
Considering matters in that context, to what extent they can answer very much depends on the nature of the situation, which we don't really know enough about to make a call on whether they can answer.
Also, we don't know how they'd be able to answer, if they can, and what the effects might be. For a few examples of what could happen:
- What if answering one way or the other would constitute giving a clue? (for example, depending on the question's wording, an answer of yes could rule out particular sets of systems')
- What if they answer, but the phrasing of the question and answer allows for a get out clause? - 'well it may have read like we were saying X, but we actually meant Y'
- What if someone is able to work something out from the answer? And what if it's incontrovertible that it's been worked out correctly, but turns out to be completely wrong, because the answer had been given without taking into account that that thing could be deduced from it?
- What if they answer in a way that people can read into and jump to all sort of wrong conclusions which will then be circulated all over?
(To add to the last point above, no matter how clearly they answer, they will be unable to do so in a way in which some won't read into it something that was never ever in any way what was said. - have seen it happen too many times
Various hypothetical Q&A scenarios below to illustrate.
Q: Is it possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: Yes, when the game reaches the appropriate point.
Consequences: massive fuss kicks off when at a later date it transpires what the answer actually meant
Q: Is it possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: No.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: No, because it's not something that can just be randomly found by anyone. It is something that will effectively find a very small number of select players / will emerge to everyone at the same time / etc.
Issues: Saying No will cause a lot of fuss. Saying the full answer will give the game away, and spoil things.
Q. Is it currently possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes.
The actual answer which isn't explicitly said: Yes, however it will require the Gnosis's jump range, will rely on correctly guessing which of many systems can only be reached using the Gnosis's jump range, and as it's 50,000 ly to the jump point is going to take the Gnosis 100 weeks to reach anyway.
Issues: Massive fuss when it comes out what the Yes actually meant.
Q. Is it currently possible to discover Raxxla?
Given answer: Yes, it can be randomly found.
Issues: Places limits on the nature of Raxxla. Places limits on the location of Raxxla. i.e. - constitutes a clue.
Other things to consider:
- what if Raxxla changes location, how would that be answered without giving something away? What if the answer is currently yes, but in a weeks time will be no because Raxxla has changed location and is now in a Permit Locked region?
- what if there's a mechanism that's temporarily been put on hold or is having to be changed? How can they answer without giving something away?
- what if the answer amounts to 'it can be discovered, but can't currently be accessed'? How can they answer accurately without giving something away or misleading people.
- what if the answer they give means nothing to you, but someone else is able to work out a key bit of info from it, finds Raxxla from it, announces the discovery, and scuppers the awesome in game Raxxla discovery journey/event that FD has been lining up for everyone to participate in?
And so on and so forth.
Long and short, it's potentially a bit of a minefield, and personally I'd say they'd be pretty crazy to head into it unless they're actually at a point where they want to start giving things away.
Again, no harm in asking though, and who knows you might actually get a response.
Gan is dead, I'm afraid.
crushed by rocks holding a door open for his friends.
Ah, good old Blake’s Seven. Those were the days. Wobbly sets. Servalan’s sexy haircut. Talking computer made out of fluorescent plastic. Gorgeous ship....
Just checked the ED timeline yesterday. From Codex the first report of Raxxla myth was in 2296, but that is even before the era of the original game, which I think is around 3190 (from wiki - mycoid attack on goids). So Raxxla myth must originally have been something insubstantial, such as an insubstantial goal that could never be found... giving a name which was then applied to “it” when “it” was found. Or am I going off my head here? 
You lost me just after insubstantial....Just checked the ED timeline yesterday. From Codex the first report of Raxxla myth was in 2296, but that is even before the era of the original game, which I think is around 3190 (from wiki - mycoid attack on goids). So Raxxla myth must originally have been something insubstantial, such as an insubstantial goal that could never be found... giving a name which was then applied to “it” when “it” was found. Or am I going off my head here?
I’m thinking that Raxxla started off as pure myth, something like “the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow” (apologies if any reader actually believes in leprechauns, I have no desire to belittle anybody’s personal belief system!). Since we were told by FD “it exists” and “it’s in the Milky Way” then the Raxxla we are looking for is something substantial (i.e. not a state of cosmic enlightenment), so the original myth must have been applied to name whatever “it” is by whoever/whatever found “it”.
And back in the original game (~3190), around the time of that naming, jump range was only 7ly.
Edit: just wondering if that “cosmetic enlightenment” in the Codex is not a typing slip but actually intended as a clue...
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Ok, I now understand but I'm not sure I agree. As a player for 3 weeks, and aimless in every sense of the word, I got about 200ish lightyears out of the bubble in my stock sidewinder, which I think is 6 or 7 lys isnt it?
I dont think I've seen any evidence that R wasn't found well before 2296. It may even have moved since its first discovery??
Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly as I'm so hurt and upset about your leprechaun comment. How could you dash my dreams like that? When I'm not hunting Raxxla, chasing the end of the rainbow is my other hobby. I find them almost synonymous.
The original game starts of in 3125. The player is locked in the GalCop navigation system, with no way to reach the rest of the galaxy. According to Imprint(book for Elite +), it was possible to obtain a full jump license from GalCop(Not for players). Being Elite was a requirement for this license.Just checked the ED timeline yesterday. From Codex the first report of Raxxla myth was in 2296, but that is even before the era of the original game, which I think is around 3190 (from wiki - mycoid attack on goids). So Raxxla myth must originally have been something insubstantial, such as an insubstantial goal that could never be found... giving a name which was then applied to “it” when “it” was found. Or am I going off my head here?
The limitations(jump range) and requirements(Elite) that Alex Ryder face, does not necessarily apply to the rest of the humanity, in the same period. At the same time as we and Alex are locked in GalCop space, the Federation and Empire have been operating for hundreds of years. They use different navigation systems and jump drives. Probably the same as we use in FE:2 and FFE.
The way events are dated makes it highly likely that information of Raxxla's existence and whereabouts came from the Mars relic, that was found in the 2280s.
The Feds have kept the nature of the relic secret, from day one. It must be important. Chances are that a smal group within the Federation used the relic to find Raxxla. The knowledge would then have been kept within a smal group and not revealed to the greater Federation leadership. This may be the group that eventually became the club.
The Dark Wheel is a secret group of treasure seekers and myth hunters. They probably formed much later. Most likely in the GalCop systems. Their strict Elite only policy may stem from the need to get out of GalCop space, to find what they seek. Raxxla was probably just a myth to them, until Jason Ryder found some hard evidence.
The evidence was obviously lost when JR was assassinated.
They still search, like us. They may have a few hits to offer, but not enough for them to locate Raxxla. Not even in 150 years.
Thank you for your thoughtfulness.
@PeteACarter: I have a SQL query for you: How many bodies in a radius of 300Ly from SOL have no discovery tags. I'd like to pay them a visit
@PeteACarter: I have a SQL query for you: How many bodies in a radius of 300Ly from SOL have no discovery tags. I'd like to pay them a visit
It would be nice if we could access Stellar Forge to check. Unfortunately all we can access is EDSM where the data has been reported by pilots. Some of those pilots may have died before they could submit their data to Universal Cartographics, but there is no way to do a comparison of the two databases. I too wish the game provided an “unexplored” tag which could be filtered in the galmap, it would make searching so much easier (which is probably why we haven’t got it!)
In Tau Ceti there is a tourist beacon around the world Bell's Wreck, 'Early Hyperspace' (Tourist Spot 0166). This states that in the 22nd Century hundreds of automated probes were sent to all the systems nearby Sol. This may be the era when Raxxla was discovered, especially if it needed to already be a myth by 2296.
These early hyperdrives were unreliable, so they may have been prone to misjumping, which is one way Raxxla could have been found at that time whilst finding it in 1000+ years of searching by The Dark Wheel et al. has so far failed (as far as we know). That means it could be anywhere in the Milky Way, though there would only be the automated probe's transmissions to tell you anything about it. If Raxxla had been visited and exploited as a result of a misjumped probe's transmission, then it must have been close enough for the hyperdrive technology of the era to enable it to be reached, or for the misjump to have been reproducible. Alternatively, Raxxla may have been on the course one of these probes followed, meaning it was then within range of those probes, perhaps within 100LY or so of Sol. Although the tourist beacon does not mention it, I would presume that automated probes continued to be sent out on a regular basis but if this beacon is providing a loose hint to which the Codex mention of Tau Ceti is intended to point us, then this may be telling us that Raxxla is (at least in 2296) in one of those early systems visited by probes.
In 3300, when ED began, the maximum jump range afaik was 41.12LY in a fully stripped down Anaconda. That's enough to reach the vast majority of the Milky Way and the unreachable places are only out on the Rim or above and below the Galactic Plane or in between the arms in certain places. There are no misjumps in ED. If a group like The Club know where Raxxla is, they would have set out to reach and exploit it the moment they had the jump range to get there. Their challenge then is to hide their tracks so that no one from The Dark Wheel follows them. Galnet has mentioned 'Wake Suppression' technology being developed by Bill Turner iirc, so perhaps it is somewhere close enough to the current Bubble that they are worried about people following them (I know Premonition suggests other motivations but this is the kind of technology that The Club would consider highly desirable to travel to and from Raxxla without being discovered).
The 22nd century saw early pioneering projects begin to take shape. The discovery of a workable hyperspace theory and the design of the first unreliable, inefficient and slow 'faster than light' drive (compared to those we are used to in 3300) opened the possibility of exploration and settlement. A new frontier of science and engineering opened, confirmed by the first detailed messages and system scans to be received back on Earth from an interstellar probe sent to the Tau Ceti system years earlier. This led to a corporate race-for-the-stars as massive commercial colony projects were founded, funded, built and launched, together with hundreds of automated probes sent to all the nearby systems.
In 3300, when ED began, the maximum jump range afaik was 41.12LY in a fully stripped down Anaconda. That's enough to reach the vast majority of the Milky Way and the unreachable places are only out on the Rim or above and below the Galactic Plane or in between the arms in certain places. There are no misjumps in ED. If a group like The Club know where Raxxla is, they would have set out to reach and exploit it the moment they had the jump range to get there. Their challenge then is to hide their tracks so that no one from The Dark Wheel follows them. Galnet has mentioned 'Wake Suppression' technology being developed by Bill Turner iirc, so perhaps it is somewhere close enough to the current Bubble that they are worried about people following them (I know Premonition suggests other motivations but this is the kind of technology that The Club would consider highly desirable to travel to and from Raxxla without being discovered).
Ok, I now understand but I'm not sure I agree. As a player for 3 weeks, and aimless in every sense of the word, I got about 200ish lightyears out of the bubble in my stock sidewinder, which I think is 6 or 7 lys isnt it?
I dont think I've seen any evidence that R wasn't found well before 2296. It may even have moved since its first discovery??
Maybe I'm just not thinking clearly as I'm so hurt and upset about your leprechaun comment. How could you dash my dreams like that? When I'm not hunting Raxxla, chasing the end of the rainbow is my other hobby. I find them almost synonymous.
I was speaking from the point of view of a Krait Phantom pilot, galactic explorer and an amateur historian interested in 21st Century Earth history, when “pot of gold at the end of the rainbow” meant that something was idealistic, possibly valuable and desirable, but impossible to find. In no way do I deny, challenge or confirm the presence, existence, or belief in leprechauns or similar creatures. I am sure many people do believe in them and wish those believers all happiness and success in their hunt for the end of their rainbow (be it multicoloured or otherwise).
