4.0 | Now Live

[Northpin]

Sure, but I mean if the game is for sale and is then also ported to a new version of the engine, and that version is given away to owners for free, I've no idea if it inherits the rating or if the very fact it exists and is public requires it to be rated itself.

I don't know the answer, just wondering aloud.

It's a delicate situation, and it's understandable that FDev wants to avoid any complications and any bad press that might result from this

Just remember they took measures against the players involved in the "carrier slavery" episode.
IMO, the carrier owners didnt do anything wrong (i had a good laugh when i read about that), and the "blame" for the entire episode fell (again IMO) on the irresponsible parents that left the kids unsupervised in a multiplayer gaming environment.
Yet, because the episode involved kids and "slavery" was mentioned (which is another delicate subject) FDev decided to play safe and deemed the act a breach of ToS and took measures against the offending carrier owners.
And i cannot really blame them for that.

 

[Northpin]

why are we caring about PEGI ratings? did we run out of actual software bugs and developer direction to complain about that we're discussing irrelevant ratings that only matter to lawyers and bureaucrats pushing a label based on arbitrary rules that dont actually accomplish anything? Like any person playing games cares or anyone "protecting children" is doing so when they have access to the internet or live around other people who do.

I dont care.
However, FDev might care about it.
And they may block any possibility of instancing between owners of a PEGI7 title and the owners of a PEGI16 title.

Guess what. That's what they're doing.

 

[Darth Ender]

It's a delicate situation, and it's understandable that FDev wants to avoid any complications and any bad press that might result from this

Just remember they took measures against the players involved in the "carrier slavery" episode.
IMO, the carrier owners didnt do anything wrong (i had a good laugh when i read about that), and the "blame" for the entire episode fell (again IMO) on the irresponsible parents that left the kids unsupervised in a multiplayer gaming environment.
Yet, because the episode involved kids and "slavery" was mentioned (which is another delicate subject) FDev decided to play safe and deemed the act a breach of ToS and took measures against the offending carrier owners.
And i cannot really blame them for that.

that had nothing to do with the term "slavery" and "kids" being used together. If Fdev cared about slavery in a kids game, they shouldn't have put slavery in a kids game. That's been in the game since it was launched, way before carrier owners were tricking newbies into cross-galaxy excursions while they weren't paying attention.

 

[thistle]

why are we caring about PEGI ratings? did we run out of actual software bugs and developer direction to complain about that we're discussing irrelevant ratings that only matter to lawyers and bureaucrats pushing a label based on arbitrary rules that dont actually accomplish anything? Like any person playing games cares or anyone "protecting children" is doing so when they have access to the internet or live around other people who do.

I also often like to crash in to conversations I wasn't having and tell the actual participants in said conversation that they should be talking about what I want to talk about.

Thanks!

 

[thistle]

Who do you think paid for that courtesy copy? The same people who now can't have it!

I don't want two ED clients on my PC just to satisfy FDev's need for scummy marketing tactics. Client 4.0 can run in both modes, as has been shown. All it takes is a corresponding launcher entry. Client 4.0 was promised to be a replacement for client 3.8 on all platforms, and now it looks like client 3.8 will occupy those extra 20 GB forever.

It's scummy, and FDev deserves to be called out for it.

And don't get me started about that nonsense of calling EDH 4.0 a tech demo. EDO has most of its performance issues in planetary settlements, and none of those are showcased in that "tech demo". People who think their PC is ready for EDO because EDH 4.0 runs OK will experience a nasty surprise once they set foot in one of those settlements.

Ha ha.

 

[Darth Ender]

I dont care.
However, FDev might care about it.
And they may block any possibility of instancing between owners of a PEGI7 title and the owners of a PEGI16 title.

Guess what. That's what they're doing.

Unlikely causation. But i'm loath to get into a pegi rating debate about why it doesn't matter what local rating a player has when they connect to a person's game if that game has been limited to the content that grants it a lower pegi rating ...because that just seems like a huge waste of time.

Fdev doesn't need legal reasons or moral reasons to do the things they do or limit the things they do. The simplest reason is that it's just more work to do so with their spaghetti code and there's not really a monetary reason to do all that work. Done, no conspiracy, no evil government. No questions about the path forward. It applies to so many chronic complaints and issues with the game that it's much harder to believe it's less of a right answer than any other.

 

[Northpin]

Client 4.0 was promised to be a replacement for client 3.8 on all platforms, and now it looks like client 3.8 will occupy those extra 20 GB forever.

Was it?
I mean recently? (let's not get back to what they hoped to achieve at the beginning to 2021)

And don't get me started about that nonsense of calling EDH 4.0 a tech demo. EDO has most of its performance issues in planetary settlements, and none of those are showcased in that "tech demo". People who think their PC is ready for EDO because EDH 4.0 runs OK will experience a nasty surprise once they set foot in one of those settlements.

Well, if the people run into issues on planetary settlements, they can make an informed decision to either upgrade their computers, or skip 4.0 altogether
That is uninstall Horizons 4.0 and avoid buying Odyssey

How is that a bad thing... it really beats me

 

[Bencunio]

So before today people who hadn't bought Odyssey could not instance with people that are playing Odyssey, this remains exactly the same. What has changed is that people that didn't buy Odyssey have been given a courtesy copy to try the new tech and to experience more of the narrative they didn't pay for. I fail to see how this could be considered underhanded by the evil and greedy company..

Dear god, why did I even step into this storm in a teacup discussion!

If there were no Greeds at FDEV, the new story would simply be included in Horizon 3.8.
But this is not the case, they rather made a new 4.0 version,which is not contact with any other version

 

[Darth Ender]

I also often like to crash in to conversations I wasn't having and tell the actual participants in said conversation that they should be talking about what I want to talk about.

Thanks!

I didn't suggest an alternative but now that you mention it. There are plenty of better topics to discuss in a release than something stupid like pegi ratings.

How about instead, you all discuss what the current powerplay characters should look like and demand that an update to their portraits be part of the next release. That seems infinitely more worthwhile.

 

[Northpin]

There are plenty of better topics to discuss in a release than something stupid like pegi ratings.

Definitely.

Like, for example, why getting fused about instancing when they said there will be no instancing.

And again, why Odyssey players getting fussed they dont get Horizons 4.0?
Did anyone from FDev implied we will get it when they announced that Horizons 3.8 players will get a free upgrade to 4.0?

I dont think so.

But as usually, everyone projected their expectations as the things that will happen 100%. (i did that too, i have to admit it - i was expecting to get Horizons 4.0)
And when those expectations didn come to fruition, some people are throwing tantrums like a 5yo (but this i didnt, especially after Bruce's explanation)

"I purchased Horizons, why i dont have access to Horizons???!!?!!?!?"
"I purchased Odyssey, why i dont have access to Horizons???!!?!!?!?"


And in the meantime, i'm transferring 37 ships to my new PC carrier (and Damn! i also transferred 2 ships that i wasnt supposed to, one from WHN and one from Colonia!!! - ouch!)
And 160 modules...
In Horizons 4.0

 

[thistle]

I didn't suggest an alternative but now that you mention it. There are plenty of better topics to discuss in a release than something stupid like pegi ratings.

How about instead, you all discuss what the current powerplay characters should look like and demand that an update to their portraits be part of the next release. That seems infinitely more worthwhile.

No, I'm fine.

 

[AtomicJuggler]

The team/multicrew situation has already been explained by fdev and I understand than the difference of EDO/EDH PEGI ratings can be a problem.

But this situation is completely different.

Not giving access to the EDH4 client to EDO players make absolutely no sense (and certainly not on a rating level since we still have access to the PEGI7 3.8 client).

Also, frankly, fdev answering our questions on the matter with "Just because..." or "It's free for EDH players only" is more than disappointing (to say the least).

Edit: Added clarifications

 

[Darth Ender]

Definitely.

Like, for example, why getting fused about instancing when they said there will be no instancing.

And again, why Odyssey players getting fussed they dont get Horizons 4.0?
Did anyone from FDev implied we will get it when they announced that Horizons 3.8 players will get a free upgrade to 4.0?

I dont think so.

But as usually, everyone projected their expectations as the things that will happen 100%. (i did that too, i have to admit it - i was expecting to get Horizons 4.0)
And when those expectations didn come to fruition, some people are throwing tantrums like a 5yo (but this i didnt, especially after Bruce's explanation)

"I purchased Horizons, why i dont have access to Horizons???!!?!!?!?"
"I purchased Odyssey, why i dont have access to Horizons???!!?!!?!?"


And in the meantime, i'm transferring 37 ships to my new PC carrier (and Damn! i also transferred 2 ships that i wasnt supposed to, one from WHN and one from Colonia!!! - ouch!)
And 160 modules...
In Horizons 4.0

I'm just glad fdev is simplifying their job by giving themselves yet another "version" of the game to manage. Most people would probably expect something heading into maintenance mode to become more streamlined and cut costs down. Some may even see this exact opposite as proof that it's not going into maintenance mode. But I would point out that Xenobiology is a role of staring at inanimate shapes involving no player activity. Reason, expectations, results....these have rarely aligned in ED.

 

[aRJay]

…
And again, why Odyssey players getting fussed they dont get Horizons 4.0?
Did anyone from FDev implied we will get it when they announced that Horizons 3.8 players will get a free upgrade to 4.0?

I dont think so.

But as usually, everyone projected their expectations as the things that will happen 100%. (i did that too, i have to admit it - i was expecting to get Horizons 4.0)
And when those expectations didn come to fruition, some people are throwing tantrums like a 5yo (but this i didnt, especially after Bruce's explanation)

…

I also fell into the trap of (lazy) thinking that I was going to get yet another line in my launcher until I actually thought for a moment about it and realised that as the only difference between H4 and O4 was essentially walking was switched off in H4 I didn’t need it as I already had it.

 

[MartinG]

I don't want two ED clients on my PC just to satisfy FDev's need for scummy marketing tactics. Client 4.0 can run in both modes, as has been shown. All it takes is a corresponding launcher entry. Client 4.0 was promised to be a replacement for client 3.8 on all platforms, and now it looks like client 3.8 will occupy those extra 20 GB forever.

Note that your issue is caused by Steam, not Frontier’s launcher. Not sure how much Frontier can do about it right now.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

Thanks @Bruce G and @sallymorganmoore . I am downloading now and hopefully will be trying out EDH 4.0 soon. And I at least appreciate all of your hard work today.

 

[Sakashiro]

Was it?
I mean recently? (let's not get back to what they hoped to achieve at the beginning to 2021)

Well, I guess they just unpromised it. But that's beside the point.

You've seen it for yourself: EDH 4.0 is in fact a full install of Odyssey. The same size, even the same folder name. The launcher entry makes it run in Horizons mode, as originally designed.

So why can't we EDO owners have that launcher entry, too? Why are we forced to use client 3.8 if we want to play Horizons? It's because FDev realized they can sell us EDO players as a feature of EDO, to nudge EDH folks into buying a DLC that they otherwise wouldn't want. As I said, the DLC failed to sell on its own merits, so we're now being used as leverage.

It may not be illegal, but it's scummy. It's a last ditch attempt to turn EDO into something resembling a success story. For their shareholders, that is.

Well, if the people run into issues on planetary settlements, they can make an informed decision to either upgrade their computers, or skip 4.0 altogether
That is uninstall Horizons 4.0 and avoid buying Odyssey

Those settlements don't exist in Horizons mode, otherwise it would be possible to drive a SRV through them and massacre all the on-foot NPCs. The PEGI rating doesn't allow that.

 

[CMDR Astraea Astralis]

Just leaving these seeing as certain people here might need it.

 

[Sakashiro]

Note that your issue is caused by Steam, not Frontier’s launcher. Not sure how much Frontier can do about it right now.

The product sold on Steam is packaged by Frontier. Valve has nothing to do with it.

 

[MartinG]

As it was said H4.0 and Ody share the codebase, so I would assume they can share most of resources (except some config files and executable). But you are probably right about how FDev would have done this

It appears EDH4 is, in fact, exactly the same code and data as EDO, so the only difference is probably in how the executable is being called.