YES! I'm working on this too, can we compare notes?
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
- Start date
The Mimas Conspiracy, part 3.
As promised, here's all my convos with CS regarding Mimas, Saturn and it's moons. I will be posting my investigations into Saturn later on but you can see some of them are here in my email to CS. Make of this what you will Raxxla Hunters!NOTE: I think this well is dry, I don't think bugging CS with more questions about Saturn will get anywhere. I'm certainly going to give them a rest for a while.
TLDR:
Q: Why is Mimas Missing?
A: "This particular case would be an intentional design decision"
Q: Mimas' exclusion has no deeper significance than an arbitrary design decision?
A: "I'm afraid we have no further information beyond that already provided in regards to Mimas not being included by intentional design."
Q: Points out other things that mismatch betwen IRL Saturn & moons, and in-game
A: "We cannot comment on specific design decisions for Saturn's moons any further than we already have. We appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is not something we can elaborate any further on."
Q: Why can't you comment on them?
A: "We have already told you all the information we have about Saturns moons, and there is nothing further we can elaborate on."
Note: Didn't save my original request form - I asked about Mimas, showed them the EDDB link showing mimas. Asked if it was a bug.
Again, mad respect to CS for putting up with me that long.
Last edited:
So in the words of FD ‘it didn’t make the cut’.
So my interpretation is; it’s left out (as are other things) due to economical reasons, eg not enough time/resources to replicate a 100% accurate model.
This I feel matches the actual description of ED, many (not myself) hold to it to be a scientific endeavour, it in my opinion it is not, it is a simulation that utilises abstraction to build a complex fictional model.
There are many iterations were RL data is replicated in game but is wholly in error.
I don’t see this as a flaw, just evidence of design decisions based on practicality. Eg I think M Brookes was responsible for inputting star locations, I take it as red without any insight that he was not an astronomer nor a GIS mapping analysts, so anomalous data is expected,
It didn’t make the cut, for me personally that would indicate it’s just a bug / flaw.
Eg I am an astronomer so know of various ‘famous’ systems, these are not in game, some have culturally significance, even to the linguistic terms FD use in their game, but they are not in game, simply because FD did not use a certain star catalog, and they lacked the resources to plot it manually, which in hindsight would be a continuous endeavour, and we know FD do not operate like that…
Last edited:
Maybe! I think it's incredibly vague and disappointing tbh. Notice they wouldn't actually say "it's not significant", they dodged that question with a blanket "no comment".
Edit:
They can't confirm it's significant, understandably, that would be cheating.
However, imo they can confirm whether it's not significant because there's 400bn stars in the galaxy and limitless other options.
The fact they wouldn't confirm it's not signficant is susy imo.
But then, if they could confirm insignificance to the quest then we would eventually whittle down the options
So... maybe they never reply straight to any question.
= incredibly frustrating.
I would pay a billion credits to just ask an Earth historian about the Sol system over the last 1000 years. The fact we can't do that is irritating.
Edit:
They can't confirm it's significant, understandably, that would be cheating.
However, imo they can confirm whether it's not significant because there's 400bn stars in the galaxy and limitless other options.
The fact they wouldn't confirm it's not signficant is susy imo.
But then, if they could confirm insignificance to the quest then we would eventually whittle down the options
So... maybe they never reply straight to any question.
= incredibly frustrating.
I would pay a billion credits to just ask an Earth historian about the Sol system over the last 1000 years. The fact we can't do that is irritating.
Last edited:
They did. But I think ‘it didn’t make the cut’ is an answer.
I do find it odd, due to the naming evidence in game, the cultural significance both in history, science and popular culture. Very, very odd.
But maybe on day 1 they couldn’t put it in due to resources, and it was too small because potatoes weren’t put in game until much later.
Then after as stuff was added it was left off simply because of complacency / ignorance. But I suspect it’s just not worth their time?
Agreed it needs rest, look for other things in game which relate to it, then approach from another angle, look for a contradiction - then throw it back at them.
Remember, when I began asking about the DW missions and permits I was actually told several times, working as intended… I then approached it from another perspective and boom they contradicted themselves, I gave them their own statements and they had to give a logical answer.
It’s worth putting a pin in this and looking at it later
I do find it odd, due to the naming evidence in game, the cultural significance both in history, science and popular culture. Very, very odd.
But maybe on day 1 they couldn’t put it in due to resources, and it was too small because potatoes weren’t put in game until much later.
Then after as stuff was added it was left off simply because of complacency / ignorance. But I suspect it’s just not worth their time?
Agreed it needs rest, look for other things in game which relate to it, then approach from another angle, look for a contradiction - then throw it back at them.
Remember, when I began asking about the DW missions and permits I was actually told several times, working as intended… I then approached it from another perspective and boom they contradicted themselves, I gave them their own statements and they had to give a logical answer.
It’s worth putting a pin in this and looking at it later
Nice O7
Last edited:
Yep good advice. I have a ton of other stuff, I'm just working on the best way to upload a sound clip so you can all hear it and let me know what you think, any ideas?They did. But I think ‘it didn’t make the cut’ is an answer.
I do find it odd, due to the naming evidence in game, the cultural significance both in history, science and popular culture. Very, very odd.
But maybe on day 1 they couldn’t put it in due to resources, and it was too small because potatoes weren’t put in game until much later.
Then after as stuff was added it was left off simply because of complacency / ignorance. But I suspect it’s just not worth their time?
Agreed it needs rest, look for other things in game which relate to it, then approach from another angle, look for a contradiction - then throw it back at them.
Remember, when I began asking about the DW missions and permits I was actually told several times, working as intended… I then approached it from another perspective and boom they contradicted themselves, I gave them their own statements and they had to give a logical answer.
It’s worth putting a pin in this and looking at it later
The correlation is very interesting.
Personally, I started from the Alien World book by gradually applying the data we already know from the game itself.
As I pointed out above, almost all events are somehow related to the gaming lore that is now closed to a bubble. All books from the DW as well as information sends us from Tau Ceti to the left side out of bubble. And we have Alien world. If we imagine for a second that the book has at least something to do with the game. Then, according to the descriptions, it can be understood that events occur plus or minus on the right side of the bubble.
99% of the titles in the book are somehow connected with Egyptian mythology. And if we look for stars or systems related to Egyptian mythology, then we will get a whole heap around the bubble +- in the bubble itself.
Since it is impossible to lay an exact path, you can rely only on an approximate region. If we compare the anagrams of the names of Egyptian deities and the history of astronomy, then in principle it is clear that Egyptian astronomy was: much earlier than Greek. However, the Greek one formed the basis of the modern one. Also, let's not forget that all astronomy is based on observation from the earth. And this means that there is a constant displacement.
Here is my best skills in paint.
So if we back to Greek Mythology, omphalos of delphi and all of this stuff.
Again. It's just my theory. Well, or I've already earned space madness. =)
The fact that people are hooked on Greek mythology is understandable. But a lot of people clung to the stellar component. I'm looking more at interpretations. For example Omphalos Rift. We know that Omphalos is a stone according to the myths.
However, the myth itself consists of several parts.
There is also a myth about the god Kronos (Egypt) aka Chronus (Greece).
Omphalos stone looks a lot like thargoid sensors and probes. And FSD looks a lot like thargoid sensor. Dont forget that Sirius Corp the creators of FSD, as we know according to the already modern lore of the game, are well versed in alien technologies and sculpt anything based on them.
And as we know from these stories, one stone was given to Chronus, the second stone rests in Delphi. So...Delphi Pleiades Sector. A very active place for the events taking place. And we have Chronus. Because there is no Chronus sys. in elite, we have another name of Chronus - Geb from egypt myth.
Yeah we have Geb system.
Everyone rested on the fact that Omphalos Rift is a kind of artifact somewhere on the planet. But it seems to me that this is just the name of the effect. Not an object. The meanings of the word rift are gap, breach, split, crack.
Which leads me personally to the idea that Omphalos Rift - it is necessary to read as it is. Omphalos Rift - Breach - Gap - Split - Crack.
What can cause gaps in space? FTL and FSD engines
If we build theories further: let's pull the toast of the wheel by the ears. (insert meme about here we go again)
To the jewel that burns on the brow of the mother of galaxies.
Many believe that this is due to Cassiopeia based on Greek myths. I believe that this is more of a mythological component. The image of the mother of all galaxies. In all mythologies about the creation of the world, there are direct references to the Milky Way. And the only stone that can "burn" is either a star or a black hole in the center. This is not a direct indication of where to fly, but rather an aphorism pointing to black holes or pulsars. Because pulsars are also stars.
To the whisperer in witchspace
Thargoids.
the siren of the deepest void
Black hole or pulsar.We can charge FSD from pulsars. But in those days there were no FSD except for rare prototypes.
A black hole or wormhole. All the ships and all the engines that in the old games and lore, that in the new lore and the current game, punch a tunnel from point A to point B, by creating a wormhole.
The parent's grief, the lover's woe, and the yearning of our vagabond hearts.
In fact, it can be interpreted as a description of adventures. Adventures or odysseys if you refer to Greece. But here we mean the term itself - adventure or path. And how its feels.
All the adventures and all the paths were near the bubble.
Also, let's take into account that not in the first not in the second elite there was no fsd. And according to modern lore, they appeared only in 3297. Before that, there were prototypes. Modern FSD tunnel to the right star and form a wormhole.
So do the thargoids, who open a wormhole and jump into it. So are the capitals.
Let's not forget that lore was retconned.
The main thing is that we (little men) jumped. Yes, these jumps were not for 30-50-100 light years, but only for 0.20-0.30-0.50 . But a wormhole was created in the same way. For everything else, relativistic acceleration was used.
And it was very easy to get lost.
Hence it can be assumed that someone in those days found a way to move faster than the engines allowed in those days.
Or you have created / found a device that allows you to jump very far. Further than modern fsds.
So this whole toast has almost zero value. Since it literally describes: let's drink to the cosmos, targoids, pulsars, and the desire to travel and thirst for discoveries.
The mythological component gives much more accurate clues. We need to find the Omphalos stone. This is most likely either a device, or a technology, or something else, as it was at one time with the Guardians technologies. And this technology or device will allow us to open a rift. Omphalos Rift.
Will it lead us to raxxla? who knows.
The main thing is that everything in lore revolves around thargoids and guardians. And therefore, my personal opinion, it is necessary to continue to look for everything that is connected in one way or another with them.
And of course, do not forget that many many players jump from point a to point b, skipping hundreds of systems. It is also very common to jump in the same plane when there are systems both at height and in depth.
So i guess: there is something near the buble or inside that will open a rift to something.
The only question is whether there is anything at all.
You also have the oldest myth, of Apollo and the serpent Drakaina (also known as Drakon and Python) at Delhi (origin name Delphine); the ‘rift’ is mentioned in that story as the location where the beast was slain and then the temple was built on top of the rotting corpse.
Rotting Thargoid base on the planet that’s directly under the ‘Oracle’ in the Delphi system! First logical assumption on day 1… but nothing to back it up further as it’s the same as all the other dead hulks(?).
Delphi in reality is also based upon a very real geological fissure. So in the context of Delphi a ‘rift’ equates to crack in the ground.
In certain historical contexts it’s thought omphalos were meteorites, carved and venerated in the early cults…literally gifts from the gods.
Rotting Thargoid base on the planet that’s directly under the ‘Oracle’ in the Delphi system! First logical assumption on day 1… but nothing to back it up further as it’s the same as all the other dead hulks(?).
Delphi in reality is also based upon a very real geological fissure. So in the context of Delphi a ‘rift’ equates to crack in the ground.
In certain historical contexts it’s thought omphalos were meteorites, carved and venerated in the early cults…literally gifts from the gods.
Last edited:
Nice work @Suhurrat this might help:
Codex: Raxxla (published late 3304)
"... To the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void! ..."
FORMIDINE RIFT ALPHA MISSION (Discovered early 3303)
Expedition Log: 28/08/3270
"Jump drive malfunctioned today ... Could have sworn I heard some weird voices in the last jump. ..."
Expedition Log: 07/10/3270
“I can’t bear another jump. The lights in witch-space are coming for me, the lights… always the lights… they’re calling to me… a siren song… I must join them…”
Galnet 3303 Hyperspace (Published early 3303)
"... Many pilots have reported glimpsing inexplicable lights, and even structures, within the witch-space tunnels. ..."
There's more references than this - but it's very clear there are huge signposts to Witch Space and they match pretty well parts of the Dark Wheel Toast. That's not a coincidence.
I think you're on the right path with that connection
Codex: Raxxla (published late 3304)
"... To the whisperer in witch-space, the siren of the deepest void! ..."
FORMIDINE RIFT ALPHA MISSION (Discovered early 3303)
Expedition Log: 28/08/3270
"Jump drive malfunctioned today ... Could have sworn I heard some weird voices in the last jump. ..."
Expedition Log: 07/10/3270
“I can’t bear another jump. The lights in witch-space are coming for me, the lights… always the lights… they’re calling to me… a siren song… I must join them…”
Galnet 3303 Hyperspace (Published early 3303)
"... Many pilots have reported glimpsing inexplicable lights, and even structures, within the witch-space tunnels. ..."
There's more references than this - but it's very clear there are huge signposts to Witch Space and they match pretty well parts of the Dark Wheel Toast. That's not a coincidence.
I think you're on the right path with that connection
Just wrt to this quote - it was written, afaik, at a time when the Thargoid story was mean to evolve in the Bovomit sector, which is out beyond the Formidine Rift. At some point the story got changed to the Plaeiades nebula instead, so the quote is a little out of date.
The rift is part of the story of Salome from Premonition, by Drew Wagar. The Exodus project had three destinations, basically as an escape route for the Club in the event of a thargoid invasion, so having one in the FR area woud obviously be counter-productive if the original quote were true.
Unfortunately plans change, and we have no idea what is relevant and what has been superseded, and its not in FD's best interests to let us know.
They did confirm it’s not significant. Their initial reply on it was that it simply didn’t make the cut, as they can’t add all 80+ moons and most have to be left out. They only started getting ambiguous with “no comment” after the issue was pressed….
As in… “Hey they seem really interested in it even after we said it was cut for practicality reasons, let’s just say no comment, it’ll keep them interested and guessing for a while longer.”
Most of your observations are indeed correct including people wasting their time chasing esoteric or mythological aspects.
The Siren in the deepest void like all the other sayings has multiple meanings but without understanding each part of the quotes related science/meanings people will never get it, Cygni-X3 observations are correct though missing mentions of numerous aspects on what makes those star systems special, how many their really are ingame also. I believe until people realise you cannot ever just "Fly to some system and look around" and find it few will make any progress... They are assuming many things with this assumption mainly that it has a fixed location in space/time.
Please be aware the Galmap lies to players and has always and likely will, Systems have a grading system in which they can be 'Renamed to a generic RNG name and a RNG system given their name', 'Hidden from Visibility in the Galmap', 'Hidden from Visibility and Name hidden until searched for manually', 'Hidden appearance and name', Hidden 'Server Permissions' Flag not PermitLock (The game checks to see if yourve triggered X or Y global trigger, if not and you try to jump to system anyway the game crashes).
When you understand that the galaxymap undermines your ability to find things, it becomes clear this is intentional but unlike the masses who go "It must be nothing or not exist" yourll find 9/10 of systems claimed 'Not' to be ingame do actually exist ingame.
As the greatest scientist the Empire has ever had its my duty to know more on my own than the collective masses of those outside the empire... In this case you should probably investigate HIP 95951, and I do mean HIP 95951 not the faked system using its name that is displayed nearby. (Spoilers this isnt a super secret its just a max stage hidden, 'requires a special server flag' to jump to one.. as Crash to desktop means there's no Exception error message thrown by the client which means its triggering a different crash from a server request. 15yrs working for AAA Games companies developing MMORPGs give you a appreciation for some of the mechanics going on under the hood as it were.)
*PS: You can generally find stars using many names despite ones shown, while compiling my own research into the extent of ThePilotsFederation and other organisations hiding information from CMDRs ingame i investigated several hundred if not thousand systems who did NOT appear in the public API list but do exist ingame to be found, commonly under multiple systems using variations of different indexes used. Which for the record is not the three alone people assume it to be but is select systems from several more indexes or notable scientific papers. Thus in the HIP95951 Case we have a star system that isnt (Or wasnt at the time) in the API index, but when checks were done for its numerous designations it provided the system information from a nearby (and wrong) system...
Last edited:
Is this to do with the known bug due to duplication of stars?
Where a name from a star catalog can be entered and it takes you to a non existent star? But really the ‘real star’ is just next door and uses an alternative name?
I presume that’s due to use of duplicative star catalogs. That’s a known bug. We presume too there are ‘Dev’ systems / sectors only they can access for testing.
From what you’ve highlighted identifies a specific set of intentional flags which enforce limits on certain ‘hidden’ stars, insinuating that they can be visited if you hit a certain gate?
Not I presume gated because they are inserted by error, bugged or locked for devs?
Not being a coder I wouldn’t want to presume the meaning, or source, please elaborate, is this in game code, are these ‘description’ in game and how were they found?
Pics please?
As if there is a gating method that really does throw the cat out of the box.
This I find interesting because I was just discussing this theory. Originally certain missions were gated, you had to be Elite to see them; FD nerfed that cool idea, so that everyone could see and engage with them.
It made me wonder if certain system missions were still intentionally gated, eg some are not Elite so many theories are based on research, if there is a path and if it’s gated one would not be able to identify anything unless you hit certain requirements.
But certain activity is only logical if it’s intentional game mechanisms, if so why is FD not communicating that certain stars are hidden, then certain paths are intentionally hidden, it would encourage players to play the game, unless it’s intention is just to restrict access to Dev level areas, bugged data or archived content no longer intended for play?
Which is why we share data.
Where a name from a star catalog can be entered and it takes you to a non existent star? But really the ‘real star’ is just next door and uses an alternative name?
I presume that’s due to use of duplicative star catalogs. That’s a known bug. We presume too there are ‘Dev’ systems / sectors only they can access for testing.
From what you’ve highlighted identifies a specific set of intentional flags which enforce limits on certain ‘hidden’ stars, insinuating that they can be visited if you hit a certain gate?
Not I presume gated because they are inserted by error, bugged or locked for devs?
Not being a coder I wouldn’t want to presume the meaning, or source, please elaborate, is this in game code, are these ‘description’ in game and how were they found?
Pics please?
As if there is a gating method that really does throw the cat out of the box.
This I find interesting because I was just discussing this theory. Originally certain missions were gated, you had to be Elite to see them; FD nerfed that cool idea, so that everyone could see and engage with them.
It made me wonder if certain system missions were still intentionally gated, eg some are not Elite so many theories are based on research, if there is a path and if it’s gated one would not be able to identify anything unless you hit certain requirements.
But certain activity is only logical if it’s intentional game mechanisms, if so why is FD not communicating that certain stars are hidden, then certain paths are intentionally hidden, it would encourage players to play the game, unless it’s intention is just to restrict access to Dev level areas, bugged data or archived content no longer intended for play?
Which is why we share data.
Last edited:
@Suhurrat above mentioned The Alien World and Egypt.
IIRC Holdstock in that book (very long time since I read it) had Raxxla related to a number of “Talmor Lenses” & one of those was a pyramid on Earth. Also IIRC the Egyptian pyramids were built so they pointed at a specific star, though that alignment has changed due to Earth’s precession over the millenia. It may be a silly question, but has anyone checked what the original star alignment was and checked that system in-game for anything unusual?
IIRC Holdstock in that book (very long time since I read it) had Raxxla related to a number of “Talmor Lenses” & one of those was a pyramid on Earth. Also IIRC the Egyptian pyramids were built so they pointed at a specific star, though that alignment has changed due to Earth’s precession over the millenia. It may be a silly question, but has anyone checked what the original star alignment was and checked that system in-game for anything unusual?
The vast majority of them are clearly from the "Tidyup" phase after galaxy generation which from appearances occured in the following order:
Form Galaxy and distribute matter, Add Darkmatter and recalculate distribution and streams, add additional stars from HIP and other indexes and papers, Remove duplicates from last step, Apply max-hidden flag status to confirmed 'blocked to client-server access' systems, Apply soft-hidden flag status to special imported list.
Gating is 100% still in use though ive no idea regarding rankings or the like Human stuff/Lore/puzzles has no interest for me though I can confirm for you that the game is using a "Content X requires PlayerID-YourID to have triggered/obtained 'ServerFlag-Event' before the Server will honour/reply to requests for interacting with that content."...
You should also notice the difference in grading between the hidden systems as Im sure everyone yourd ever seen before would at least tell you the systems StarType and information, ones that are max level hidden will even hide that from you and will merely show the loading information placeholder, that right there from a ex-Devs point of view is what we call the smoking gun of the gating system as the systems "You must have Server Flag xxxx to interact with this object" kicks in even on the galaxymap level... that is therefore very very specific to its function. Ie> This is why when you select a Perm locked system itll show a flag on the information for it being perm locked, but once you have the permit you wont get the same information screen on galmap as, even on the galmap level your Server-Flags (Which is what Permits are) get checked.
Spoilers: Every "I Will map every star in X ly radius of Sol" project so far is doomed at the start as there are several hundred soft and hard hidden systems in that region alone
So If they do not KNOW 'EXACTLY' what they are looking for, theyll never find it
Last edited:
Mm, what’s happened to the Galnet summary?
It’s gone all pictorial and is demanding I accept marketing cookies-no, absolutely not!!
Edit: Friday morning & back to normal....if you can cope with normality
It’s gone all pictorial and is demanding I accept marketing cookies-no, absolutely not!!
Edit: Friday morning & back to normal....if you can cope with normality
Last edited: