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It is obvious that all that mess is made to force ppl to buy DLC they don't want. Which obviously will fail, cause if ppl don't want to buy something - they just wont, and FDev can do nothing about it. And if somebody has doubt about purpose of that mess - well, we see that even white knights don't deny it, they openly support it instead.

It is pathetic, when you read some content - including some written by CMs. Like "making courtesy" by providing H4. PPL already paid for Horizons (with some exceptions like Epic giveaway), so fixing/patching/updating it is no courtesy.

It is attempted to claim that H4 is something entirely separate. Problem is that this contradicts FDev's own narrative. They claim that they cannot do common instancing because of PEGI. But if H4 is something separate - then it also should have separate PEGI rating. They should first make that very separate H4 with proper content (including common instancing), and then apply for PEGI. Now, they claim that it has PEGI 7 (don't really see a point if you check EULA) because it is..... Horizons. Same Horizons that we already paid for.

Someone above claims that Horizon players want to play that crappy DLC for free. I will only talk for myself now - I know I don't. I don't want space instancing for free - cause I've already paid for the space part, it is called Elite: Dangerous. I also don't want to play that crappy non-space FPS for free - FDev would have to actually pay me to even consider to touch that crap, so no, that certainly wont happen for free.

And FDev statement that they wont discuss that matter is just immature - they behave like if without them talking about the issue, it will go away by itself. Well, the life doesn't work like that - problems don't evaporate just because they are not talked about.

Not to mention that video games market is very competitive, diverse, and in present times of struggling economy, ppl will first cut entertainment expenses.

If FDev was wise, they would just leave the matter of failed Oddsheet launch behind, and started doing some decent spacesim DLC to sell. Instead - they do all they can to alienate their customer base (an attempt to force or blackmail ppl to do something they don't want to tends to have that effect). And those customers, after such behavior was shown, may be very reluctant to spend any money on any future DLC - even if its quality will be better than Ody (which is not a feat BTW).

Such behaviour also additionally discourages ppl from buying Ody - cause what guarantee those ppl have, that they will be treated better after paying for EDO, than they are treated after they paid for EDH, where it is claimed that update is a "courtesy"?

Summarising - that all mes is just another misstep by FDev, a worthy sequel to the EDO launch, that was so succesfull, that even Braben himself had to write an apology. It seems, that some ppl are incapable of learning from their own mistakes.
 
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But crossplay with EDH4 was part of the deal when we bought Odyssey. Now we have to pay for it again?

Which "WE" are you talking about?
We, Odyssey players, dont have to pay anything. We already did.

Some other people should.

And crossplay was never a deal, was a planned feature that, for whatever reasons it is still not available with a status of "we have nothing to announce..."
 
I'd advise you find a more constructive conversational style. You keep on doing great things buddy.

What is the problem with Frontier providing a 4.0 option to Odyssey owners exactly? What is the problem? I am a PAYING CUSTOMER who gave them MORE MONEY and because of that they are refusing to provide a FREE UPDATE that they GAVE TO THE REST their player base who DIDN'T GIVE THEM A CENT.

What is really the problem?

And yes, my group is not interested in the sorry excuse for space legs, or the amateurish FPS "content" or the completely optional on foot grind. They'll take the graphical overhaul and nothing else, why is that hard to understand?
The problem is financial: that graphical overhaul, which admittedly was critically maligned at birth, cost money to develop and salvage. So, if I was FD, I wouldn't give it for free, and I think neither would you. I wouldn't want "my children to go starving tonight" ;) . So, if your friends just want it for free, it's not Frontier that's trying to cheat them...

As I say to my children, if you want to check if something is right, look at it from the opposite side...
 
They don’t want to provide any option for the server populations of Odyssey to shrink. Horizons owners aren’t trapped, Odyssey owners are.

EDO owners moved forward and the door was closed and locked behind them; EDH owners stood still and the door leading to somewhere they didn’t want to go was closed in front of them.

The people who paid to get in want to get out and be with their friends on the outside; this isn’t about letting people in for free.

Frontier is like a bouncer at a club who keeps shoving people back in
 
The problem is financial: that graphical overhaul, which admittedly was critically maligned at birth, cost money to develop and salvage. So, if I was FD, I wouldn't give it for free, and I think neither would you. I wouldn't want "my children to go starving tonight" ;) . So, if your friends just want it for free, it's not Frontier that's trying to cheat them...

As I say to my children, if you want to check if something is right, look at it from the opposite side...
The problem is that many things FDev announce sounds (at least to me) like:

False advertising​

False advertising is defined as the act of publishing, transmitting, or otherwise publicly circulating an advertisement containing a false claim, or statement, made intentionally to promote the sale of property, goods, or services. Wikipedia
E.g.:
  • we add cross-instancing in the future between Horizons and Odyssey in space (but that future may not come)
  • we give new tech to Horizons players for free (but it is courtesy, not something you paid for)
  • we give ability to use new tech to Horizons players (but not including Odyssey owners)
Maybe another apologize could help to relieve community mood if they think there is something they need to apologize for.

The easiest for FDev now is to add this hotdamn menu item to run Horizons 4.0 to Odyssey players. I would say it should happen before this thread reaches 50 pages if there is anyone clear thinking left at FDev.
There is still some pages left though for expectations to not fully deceived :)
 
Which "WE" are you talking about?
We, Odyssey players, dont have to pay anything. We already did.

Some other people should.

And crossplay was never a deal, was a planned feature that, for whatever reasons it is still not available with a status of "we have nothing to announce..."
Crossplay was an advertised feature. Frontier didn't just casually mention it, they made a shiny feature comparison chart that included it. That chart is still online.

Imagine Microsoft advertising compatibility between Office 10 and Office 11: "With Office 11 you will be able to open documents created in Office 10, and there will be a free program that converts your Office 11 documents down to Office 10 format."

Great! you think and upgrade your Office 10 to 11. Then you find out that the advertised 11-to-10 converter was canceled. You call Microsoft's support hotline and complain that people can't open the documents you send them.

And Microsoft responds: "No problem, the recipients can upgrade to Office 11, too. By the way, it's on sale right now. Go get it!"

You: "I don't think I can convince all my business partners to upgrade to Office 11. They don't really need the new features you added to Excel. They just need to open my Word documents. Can I downgrade to Office 10 instead?"

Microsoft: "Sorry, but that's not possible. Once you upgrade to Office 11, you can't go back. As a workaround we suggest purchasing Office 11 licences for the people you want to exchange documents with. Alternatively you could exchange documents in Office 7 format. Both Office 10 and 11 can handle those. Keep in mind though that this format lacks a few features and is no longer supported. Good luck!"
 
The problem is that many things FDev announce sounds (at least to me) like:

E.g.:
  • we add cross-instancing in the future between Horizons and Odyssey in space (but that future may not come)
  • we give new tech to Horizons players for free (but it is courtesy, not something you paid for)
  • we give ability to use new tech to Horizons players (but not including Odyssey owners)
Maybe another apologize could help to relieve community mood if they think there is something they need to apologize for.


There is still some pages left though for expectations to not fully deceived :)
My low-level personal opinion regarding FDev is that they've got a bigger chew than they can swallow. They also tried to get through with less money than necessary. Too many projects and shuffling personnel around, not hiring new ones. Odyssey had a fundamental (again, my opinion) design problem with rendering, meshmaps or whatever they're called, lighting, you name it. Working from home through the Covid quarantine didn't help, either.
Bugs resurface between patches, my srv's lights shine through wall-floor surfaces, there are still many things to be fixed.

With all the above, I meant to say that their plans had to become flexible, because not everything is working. They had to abandon the consoles and deal with all the backlash (mine, too, although I don't own one).

Perhaps they owe us a reiteration of their plans, and a new road map, but offering Horizons 4.0 to Odyssey players would discourage Horizons players from buying Odyssey, so they won't do it. It would be a financial disaster.
 
Crossplay was an advertised feature. Frontier didn't just casually mention it, they made a shiny feature comparison chart that included it. That chart is still online.

Imagine Microsoft advertising compatibility between Office 10 and Office 11: "With Office 11 you will be able to open documents created in Office 10, and there will be a free program that converts your Office 11 documents down to Office 10 format."

Great! you think and upgrade your Office 10 to 11. Then you find out that the advertised 11-to-10 converter was canceled. You call Microsoft's support hotline and complain that people can't open the documents you send them.

And Microsoft responds: "No problem, the recipients can upgrade to Office 11, too. By the way, it's on sale right now. Go get it!"

You: "I don't think I can convince all my business partners to upgrade to Office 11. They don't really need the new features you added to Excel. They just need to open my Word documents. Can I downgrade to Office 10 instead?"

Microsoft: "Sorry, but that's not possible. Once you upgrade to Office 11, you can't go back. As a workaround we suggest purchasing Office 11 licences for the people you want to exchange documents with. Alternatively you could exchange documents in Office 7 format. Both Office 10 and 11 can handle those. Keep in mind though that this format lacks a few features and is no longer supported. Good luck!"
this comparison hits the nail on its head!

And then there's someone who made a minimalistic open source solution that provides an Office 11 to 10 converter for free after the inner workings between each format was discovered.
 
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offering Horizons 4.0 to Odyssey players would discourage Horizons players from buying Odyssey, so they won't do it. It would be a financial disaster.

AFAIK having to keep two game versions going (3.8 & 4.x) is already financially undesirable, and there is a clear intention to move all customers to 4.x. The console to PC transfer process is a part of this, and the plan is clearly for what is currently being called Horizons 4.0 to become the base game once all obstacles keeping 3.8 going have been overcome (This may never actually happen).

FDev wants as much of the playerbase to voluntarily move to 4.x as possible, ideally Odyssey but if not then Horizons 4.0.

There needs to be as few obstacles to that transition as possible, and instancing between 4.x versions is an obstacle. It can be overcome by allowing cross-instancing between Odd & 4.0, but that may be technically or legally challenging. Fortunately it can also be overcome by allowing Odd customers to access 4.0, which doesn't appear to be either technically or legally challenging. That neither option was offered is what's strange.
 
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AFAIK having to keep two game versions going (3.8 & 4.x) is already financially undesirable, and there is a clear intention to move all customers to 4.x. The console to PC transfer process is a part of this, and the plan is clearly for what is currently being called Horizons 4.0 to become the base game once all obstacles keeping 3.8 going have been overcome (This may never actually happen).

FDev wants as much of the playerbase to voluntarily move to 4.x as possible, ideally Odyssey but if not then Horizons 4.0.

There needs to be as few obstacles to that transition as possible, and instancing between 4.x versions is an obstacle. It can be overcome by allowing cross-instancing between Odd & 4.0, but that may be technically or legally challenging. Fortunately it can also be overcome by allowing Odd customers to access 4.0, which doesn't appear to be either technically or legally challenging. That neither option was offered is what's strange.
There are still users with systems that don't run Odyssey well. I had to upgrade my GPU from RX580 to 6750XT to smile (my wallet isn't :D ). To move the whole playerbase to the Odyssey engine, will need
  • Players upgrading their PCs
  • FDev fixing more performance problems
  • FDev deciding that not a significant number of players will upgrade to Odyssey any more, so they can merge the Odyssey codebase with the base game, like they did with Horizons. I think we're one DLC behind this timeframe.
Offering 4.0 to Odyssey players will be a spanner in FDev's financial plans. I can't see it happening.
 
There are still users with systems that don't run Odyssey well. I had to upgrade my GPU from RX580 to 6750XT to smile (my wallet isn't :D ). To move the whole playerbase to the Odyssey engine, will need
  • Players upgrading their PCs
  • FDev fixing more performance problems
  • FDev deciding that not a significant number of players will upgrade to Odyssey any more, so they can merge the Odyssey codebase with the base game, like they did with Horizons. I think we're one DLC behind this timeframe.

These are all obstacles that prevent or slow the transition from 3.8 to 4.x. I agree Odd probably will eventually become incorporated into the base game as Horizons was, but I think that's not relevant yet. Giving Odd to all customers may be done as a last ditch incentive to encourage any 3.8 hold-outs to move over voluntarily somewhere down the line though, as you imply probably shortly before another pDLC is announced that requires Odd content.

Offering 4.0 to Odyssey players will be a spanner in FDev's financial plans. I can't see it happening.

This is unrelated to the rest of your post. It shouldn't be needed, apart from the issue of cross-instancing. I have & use Odyssey, 4.0 offers me nothing except the ability to instance with other players in 4.0.
 
This is unrelated to the rest of your post. It shouldn't be needed, apart from the issue of cross-instancing. I have & use Odyssey, 4.0 offers me nothing except the ability to instance with other players in 4.0.
This (lack of) ability is the reason a lot of Odyssey players are blaming FDev, because FDev are not allowing their friends to play with them for free.
 
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This (lack of) ability is the reason a lot of Odyssey players a blaming FDev, because FDev are not allowing their friends to play with them for free.

As far as apportioning blame is concerned there isn't a logical path to any entity other than FDev. It's their decision, and nobody elses.

As far as being able to instance with others is concerned, that's not something that has been marketed a premium feature. That's you knowing the answer & coming up with reasoning that gets you to the answer you already know :)

It is their risk to take, and I hope that it works out for them such that the servers stay on for longer and the chances of getting more game increases. Just seems an unnecessary risk to take, to annoy people without any corresponding benefit to make it worthwhile 🤷‍♂️
 
This would be the chart that shows Odyssey being released on consoles as part of that envisioned future?
For the implementation of EDH4/EDO crossplay on PC, the console release was an obstacle, not a condition. That obstacle was eliminated months ago, so where's the crossplay? What's the excuse this time? Ah, now it's the PEGI rating. But that problem isn't new, it existed from the start, and the solution is well known.

It's pretty obvious at this point that Frontier doesn't want to give us the feature that they promised. They just keep coming up with new excuses again and again.

It's basically a scam. Advertise, accept pre-orders , then never ship the full product.
 
For the implementation of EDH4/EDO crossplay on PC, the console release was an obstacle, not a condition. That obstacle was eliminated months ago, so where's the crossplay? What's the excuse this time? Ah, now it's the PEGI rating. But that problem isn't new, it existed from the start, and the solution is well known.

It's pretty obvious at this point that Frontier doesn't want to give us the feature that they promised. They just keep coming up with new excuses again and again.

It's basically a scam. Advertise, accept pre-orders , then never ship the full product.
I never said it was a precondition I was just pointing out that at least one major feature of that chart was cancelled a long time ago which to me indicates that everything on the chart should be treated as out of date and no more to be relied on than a bus or train timetable that was equally old and you knew one of the stops/stations was no longer in use.
 
I never said it was a precondition I was just pointing out that at least one major feature of that chart was cancelled a long time ago which to me indicates that everything on the chart should be treated as out of date and no more to be relied on than a bus or train timetable that was equally old and you knew one of the stops/stations was no longer in use.
Here's the key difference:

No one purchased Odyssey on consoles. The cancellation is certainly disappointing, but since no one lost money on it, there's no damage. You can't legally demand shipment of a product that was never offered to you, and that you didn't spend any money on.

However, people did purchase Odyssey on PC, so they are entitled to receive it as advertised.

It's possible that some people would not have purchased Odyssey if they had known that crossplay would be cancelled and that access to EDH4 would be blocked for them. These people have every reason to feel defrauded.
 
Here's the key difference:

No one purchased Odyssey on consoles. The cancellation is certainly disappointing, but since no one lost money on it, there's no damage. You can't legally demand shipment of a product that was never offered to you, and that you didn't spend any money on.

However, people did purchase Odyssey on PC, so they are entitled to receive it as advertised.

It's possible that some people would not have purchased Odyssey if they had known that crossplay would be cancelled and that access to EDH4 would be blocked for them. These people have every reason to feel defrauded.
Then those people should take the matter up with the small claims court or equivalent.
 
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