For most players who are not kitted out for PvP (traders etc) that pretty much means certain death. You might as well just make it a simple if you log out in combat, then you die. Forget the timer. Traders, explorers and miners do need a viable escape method however.
PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2
- Thread starter Rinzler o7o7o7
- Start date
For most players who are not kitted out for PvP (traders etc) that pretty much means certain death. You might as well just make it a simple if you log out in combat, then you die. Forget the timer. Traders, explorers and miners do need a viable escape method however.
The idea that players look at the logout time specifically as the primary means to escape conflict just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
Your primary means of escape is called hi waking. If you don't understand how to properly outfit and fly your ship in a way that allows you to escape by means of actual "game play" by hi waking, check this guide out. It has all the info you need to escape conflict and maintain your sense of dignity and self esteem at the same time:
[video=youtube;Uh9AWV_BWo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0&t=12s[/video]
Sadly, that too will be gamed by those determined to do so
You can say that about everything
Somewhere FDev has to draw a line, they drew it here. It can be changed, but that's where they drew the line.
It's up to me when I decide to leave a video game via whichever legitimate means the devs decided to provide.
Real life is more important, ditch the countdown and the confirmation.
If the restriction to mode switching while the ship is in danger were applied, I think I'd be okay with ditching the 15sec timer too. I'm probably missing something, I'll give it some thought.
Thank you for the video link, but I have already seen it and I already know how to high wake. Saying you want to throw up is being just a tad insulting, and a bit of an over-reaction. Perhaps I was not being clear, I have never combat logged and my statement that traders need a viable means of escape was not meant as a defence of it. It was what it said on the tin, they need a viable means of escape.
I have only been attacked by players three times since I started. I was killed twice and the third one was a pirate who could easily have killed me if he wanted to. Both times I was dead in seconds. It would not have mattered if I had known that high wake was the right response, there simply was not the time to do it. I would hope that I am now a better player with a better ship and stand a chance of surviving the next encounter, but it has yet to be put to the test.
For a large amount of my time I play as an explorer. I play in open because I like the idea of meeting other explorers by chance out in the black, an extremely rare event. In my next trip into the bubble I will be returning with hundreds of millions worrth of exploration data. That represents weeks of gameplay. There is no way in hell I am going to risk losing that to some murder hobo who wants me for their content. So my choices are: 1) come out of open for the return trip, which would be a shame, one more player driven out of open; 2) risk a confrontation and see if my ship and tactics really are up to it; or 3) resort to combat logging. I am very reluctant to do 3, but I'm not going to rule it out considering what's at risk.
As an aside, any suggestions on a good protective build for a DBX and still have room for all the things needed for exploration would be appreciated.
It's called high waking. It takes roughly around the same time as the 15 second graceful exit.
I was replying to the suggestion to put the timer up to 60 seconds.
Yes, I realize that you were not defending clogging (unlike some others here), and I took your words at face value: you're promoting the use of the menu log as your primary means to escape being caused harm by either another player or an NPC. While not as bad as clogging, it still points to a major reliance on exploitative behavior as a means to avoid consequences within the game.
My reaction being one of revulsion is a bit melodramatic of course, but still applicable: the thought that someone in a trade or exploration ship would rather menu log than explore other avenues of escape/self protection is downright distasteful, and absolutely an exploitation of the mechanic. Bumping the timer to upwards of thirty plus seconds would force guys like you to learn how to play the game.
Edit: whoa, just read the final part of your post "not ruling out clogging." Why doesn't that surprise me? The problem as I see it is that the game is literally crawling with people who employ unsanctioned exits, and it's because of Fdev's disgraceful lack of leadership. They've literally allowed their game to become infested with cheaters like bed bugs in a junky flop house.
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Menu logging isn't exploiting, it's working as intended.
I'm starting to think Red has a point.
FDEV designed it, approved it, implemented it and it's functioning exactly as intended. It's simply the truth.
I think FD knows it's not perfect and will change it a bit.
The current timer on the menu log, changes depending on danger level. This is fine, but the 15 sec maximum is a bit short. If you lose an interdiction, menu log is faster then Hi wake. This isn't good design. It should always take about 10 sec. more to menue log, than to hi-wake.
The menu log also needs the option for immediate confirmation. Waiting for 15 sec. to confirm is extremely annoying when there is a 'domestic emergency'. If the timer is extended in some situations, this will be even more problematic.
I'd put the timer up to 25 seconds but with the confirmation at the beginning. Essentially it must be longer than a high wake would take otherwise people will abuse it as the easiest way to avoid danger/rebuy.
Traders and miners can usually pack in some hull and module reinforcements in any unused slots as well as engineering up some thick armour and tougher shields, weight isn't a huge issue for regular trading and mining. If doing long range trading then equip for a balance of tankiness and speed/jump range. Defensive modules and tactics should be your consideration rather than aggressive loadouts. Mines are perfect for this as is double chaff and double point defence. You should also spend time training up on dipping in and out of silent running to break your opponent's target lock. Not running in a straight line is also crucial as is getting used to charging up your FSD for a high wake while you are facing your opponent instead of showing them your engines/FSD.
Exploration in a DBX is tricky to find a balance between survivability while still being useful for exploring. The DBX barely has enough space for all the exploration essentialls as it is. I would recommend going for maximum speed via engineering. If I'm coming back from an explo trip with tons of data I would never dream of doing it in Open unless I am flying a fully engineered Asp or Conda and still prepared to lose weeks of my game time just in case. If you want a safer environment to meet other players while exploring I would suggest doing it in a dedicated explorer friendly private group like Mobius or Cannon.
Is it not the case that you can't manouver during the timer? If so, that is MUCH more dangerous than high waking already.
Not as distasteful as killing weaker ships that are not seeking combat just for the fun of it.
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So you're saying it would be an effective deterrent to using the timer, and that if anything, it is already. If it's not worth doing (ie high waking is preferable) then it's achieved it's goal.
The 15 sec timer is there to discourage you from just giving up. It's effectively saying 'you really should stay in the game until your ship is safe', but allowing you to leave anyway. Both you & Martian make good points here, there is no ideal solution.
Yes, but it is possible to armour up even a half-trading build enough so that it survives longer than 15 seconds under most circumstances. In order to kill a decently armoured ship even as small as the Cobra III in under 15 seconds it would take a wing of 2 or more CMDRs or one scarily engineered FDL or big 3 ship.
It's possible for sure but as Riverside pointed out the 15 second rule is there to discourage just giving up and I feel adding just 5 to 10 seconds (provided the confirmation is at the beginning) will help it not be abused for its potential as an 'easiest' way out. Some players already use it as the easiest way out of danger and that sort of goes against its intended use.
Killing weaker ships is not honourable but it is an intended game mechanic. Combat logging is using an out of game method to bypass the game's mechanics and is therefore considered cheating.
Personal feelings on what is more distasteful are besides the point. The fact is one is an intended feature of the game and the other is a cheat. FD holds the keys to alleviating both issues. Adequate consequences (via C&P & karma) to discourage rampant player killing and adequate measures to make combat logging more hassle than it is worth up to and including punishments for confirmed repeat offenders.
True. In these cases a compromise is best utilised whereby the solution is found somewhere in the middle.
Yep, they can raise the timer the important thing is immediate confirmation like you said, real life will always come first.