You are right of course. I believe the OP is more concerned about the slippery slope fallacy.
Anyone else thinking of asking for a refund?
- Thread starter m0rl0ck
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You are right of course. I believe the OP is more concerned about the slippery slope fallacy.
No.
Sure it does, it's just not one you agree with. It is no more right or wrong a position to take than any other at this stage. A toddler throwing a tantrum is an excellent analogy to a great deal of the 'everything must be open only' flip-side argument, yet here the OP is only 'thinking of asking for a refund', they are not demanding anything.
I think you are overstating your case Frenotx. How would you deal with a screaming toddler? Would you be confrontational, or try to remain calm?
What case am I overstating?
But it is an understandable reaction - it can be understood. I do not draw my personal line in the same place as the OP (I already play in Open & have never pledged for a start, I also do not think this is the beginning of a slippery slope) but I can empathise with their concern and hope to reassure them that the sky is not falling
I'm in favour of this because of the PvP aspect. It potentially allows a release of tension within the community, but as this thread shows it still comes at a cost. I'm sure you are familiar with many such compromises that have not gone the way you had hoped, and while you are not considering a refund for those choices you've probably had the 'you bought the wrong game' argument levelled at you (not by me). This situation is analogous, albeit with the important difference that the OP bought the right game, and now the game will potentially change to one they would not have bought had it been the proposed way at the time of purchase, regardless of how long ago that was.
It's not so much what the fear is as how it's being expressed. Someone posting that they were a bit worried about getting shot to bits would receive advice and helpful video links or some facts such as 16,000 inhabited systems and 66,000 stations to choose from. Someone posting they were frightened of this being a slippery slope would get a realistic appraisal of what FDEV have actually said.
Instead we have comedy threats of legal action, demands for refunds after four years and thousands of hours played, and the issue itself (a minor tweak to one unpopular game element) is being blown way out of proportion by lots of people who have never done anything but complain about it before some of whom proudly tell us they haven't played the game at all for years.
It's ludicrous, anybody taking this any of this rubbish seriously needs to get a grip.
Hmmmmm....
Lesse. FDev has said all content would be available in all modes.
Then, they add multiplayer only content. (Wings and multicrew.)
Then, they propose more Multiplayer only content (Fleet carriers)
Now, they are proposing actually removing content from a mode (PP in solo/PG)
What are they going to remove from solo/PG next I wonder.
They are DIRECTLY contravening the 'all content in all modes' position with this move. If they don't take a hit in income from doing this, it will be easier for them to justify the next time, and the time after that.
*shrug* Looks like the potential for a 'slippery slope' to me.
I don’t want a refund I got my moneys worth.
Frontier have shown they wish to move to a more pvp/multiplayer focused game with squadrons and open only features. That just isn’t for me.
I’m keeping my eyes on X4 as being a good single player experience however after the hell that was rebirth I’m very cautious.
I always hoped elite would develop a lot more in the way of its single player experience but after 4 years of mostly multiplayer oriented updates I think it’s time to move along.
Now who would like my stuff
Frontier have shown they wish to move to a more pvp/multiplayer focused game with squadrons and open only features. That just isn’t for me.
I’m keeping my eyes on X4 as being a good single player experience however after the hell that was rebirth I’m very cautious.
I always hoped elite would develop a lot more in the way of its single player experience but after 4 years of mostly multiplayer oriented updates I think it’s time to move along.
Now who would like my stuff
For reference, could you please link me the quote of FDev saying all current and future content will be available in all modes?
OP - no, and i don't think there is any legal basis to claim one.
I'll be dissapointed if FD go through with the proposed change, but won't change how i play. Actually, it will even become a bit better if they do it right, because I won't have to see PP ships anymore! Woo hoo!
I'll be dissapointed if FD go through with the proposed change, but won't change how i play. Actually, it will even become a bit better if they do it right, because I won't have to see PP ships anymore! Woo hoo!
No. I'm not going to search years of forums for a FDev statement. (although it is likely it's on Jockey's wall of information)
So, to humor your position, lets just remove that first statement and view this as a solo player?
Multiplayer stuff added, more multiplayer stuff proposed, then a proposal to remove actual continent from the mode I prefer.
From the hypothetical solo players perspective, looks to me like they are moving away from supporting me, and actively removing content from my mode.
Still looks like a slippery slope from that perspective.
And, for the record, I play in open and PG. PG when I'm on my laptop connecting thru my phone. I tried that in open. The results weren't pretty.
I find it somewhat humourous when people bring out this "slippery slope" metaphor and try using it as an axe.
We're not on a slippery slope, we're at the bottom of one...and now we get the pivot. Might be a series of incremental changes sure, but it's a pivot, nothing more nothing less. I'm just laughing because "let's make Powerplay Open Only...is the smallest increment they could find to kick things off. I'm chuckling now, due to it being hilarious, and me being drunk.
Just goes to show how far ahead they plan, or how badly...one of the two. Maybe even both. I've no idea because the comms are non-existent.
Anyone have any idea what's happening next week?
Rather than a "slippery slope", we're more "standing knee deep in quicksand". If I order a rope on Amazon, will it get here by Monday?
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You view the game as needing more PvP I'm guessing.
I don't.
Your perspective is different than mine.
Thus, we disagree.
I see removing content from a mode as a bad precedent to set.
Nah, I agree with you. To the point of having to laugh at the madness of it all. I think that's safe to say now. So much about ED is quite frankly brilliant, but those bit's which aren't are so monumentally stupid, I just can't take the whole thing seriously anymore.
My previous post was being facetious I guess, my bad...I'm a bit drunk because of the Cup Final.
Read through my post history matey, you'll soon see what I mean if interested.
As for the short version, "My point was that if I can throw them a rope, I would, but I think I may as well just hang myself with it and end us both", said Solo to Open.
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There is no such quote on that wall of information. I've seen loads of people claiming that FDev made such a promise, even so far as saying them breaking said promise is unethical and illegal. The OP of this thread is largely based on this alleged pledge. And yet... No supporting evidence has been provided. Questioning someone's ethics and threatening legal action are both pretty lame things to do without supporting evidence. Hell, depending on the circumstances, such things can even be considered libel.
I agree that the simple PP change to Open is indeed probably has no legal basis. Removing single-player option and forcing everyone into multiplayer mode, however...
I think the move is actually more damaging to their credibility as a company, given the "all modes equal stance" prior. Things like the introduction of MC, Wings, Squadrons, etc. without giving anything to single-player and then this... when both types of play have been clearly advertised since release. Doesn't do a lot to instill credibility and they're certainly not doing themselves any favors.
The PvP agenda doesn't surprise me in the slightest- I expected it and told everyone it would happen. Calls to remove the modes have existed since before release, as people started to realize they wouldn't get EVE-in-cockpits. They're truly naive if they think this game could have reached the level it has and lasted this long with only PvP-only support, however... given they're a minority population to the entire playerbase.
You're clearly either uninformed or choose ignorance then- if you haven't read Michael Brooke's comment regarding the modes remaining equal. Also, changing a product's inherent nature (e.g., "Single-player and multi-player" to "Only Multiplayer") after it was clearly advertised and marketed, sold and delivered does indeed have legal precedence.
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Link away. I'm genuinely curious to see what specifically was said. The more hard facts everyone is working with, the more productive the discussion can be.
A customer demanding a refund for a relatively inexpensive game after being entertained for hundreds if not thousands of hours seems "unethical, maybe fraudulent, and possibly illegal."
Hmmm, I didn't like how Infinity War ended, so I think I'll go demand a refund from the movie theater.
As long as I'm demanding refunds, I want a refund for the valuable time that I wasted reading and responding to this thread.
