Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

[bitstorm]

Ok, come up with a better idea to stop scripting in this game! This is a challenge to you my fellow ED CMDR as the ban hammer is not a solution and takes too much effort to monitor and report..

Just on this, automation and scripting, it's a grey area.

I've used autohotkey scripting for :

- Fast tracking powerplay, not to abuse the BGS, just for prismatics, have you ever tried fast tracking manually
- Hiring/firing crew members to find one I want. According to the stats I've fired 370, would you want to spend 1-2 hours doing that

I feel like I'd like to say the root issue here is Frontier's implementation, but yes in the end I understand the argument you should "play the game" as intended.

I don't think any of the above should be a ban offence.

 

[Stigbob]

Yep, in agreement there, except for the 'paying for new accounts' - Sounds like someone with disposable income, a huge chip, and not very bright...

Running them in open is also not very bright, so I don't find buying cheap secondary's difficult to believe.

 

[Deareim]

Running them in open is also not very bright, so I don't find buying cheap secondary's difficult to believe.

Unless it is done on purpose.

 

[Crank Larson]

And the mirror image is just taking notes in a notebook from inside the privacy of his home on stuff in plain view in the public sphere. It prob inst illegal and nobody said that the OP was a criminal did they?

It's just a really WEIRD thing to spend ur time doing u see?

It would appear to only be yourself that has a problem with stalking. Your problem is that you see stalking where there isn't any. That's a really weird thing to spend your time worrying about, do you see? This thread is about a game. And while nothing in the OP is even remotely related to stalking, if someone really wanted to RP a stalker in E: D, they'd be more than welcome to.

Isn't it really weird that people even spend their time pretending to be in a spaceship that doesn't exist?

 

[Sentenza]

Ok, come up with a better idea to stop scripting in this game! This is a challenge to you my fellow ED CMDR as the ban hammer is not a solution and takes too much effort to monitor and report..

In fact I already said it you can identify a bot precisely because it is running all the time. Surely the server can perform a statistical analysis and find that account X is doing actions 24/7, something an human can't do.

 

[Stigbob]

Unless it is done on purpose.

Which is why I said earlier it could be trolling, which again isn't very bright.

 

[bitstorm]

In fact I already said it you can identify a bot precisely because it is running all the time. Surely the server can perform a statistical analysis and find that account X is doing actions 24/7, something an human can't do.

Just use two accounts and alternate them every 12 hours.

 

[ilo]

And the mirror image is just taking notes in a notebook from inside the privacy of his home on stuff in plain view in the public sphere. It prob inst illegal and nobody said that the OP was a criminal did they?

It's just a really WEIRD thing to spend ur time doing u see?

Are we talking about the same video game where we fly space ships, trade with slaves and drugs and shoot npcs to death? seriously?

 

[Sentenza]

Just use two accounts and alternate them every 12 hours.

It is still a pattern

 

[GraXXoR]

Mahon has been advocating for a changes to PP that actually makes our position more precarious than it is now. The powerplay mechanics have reached their natural equilibrium and needs an overhaul. That doesn't mean you can cheat the current grind mechanics.

Mahon isn't a real person, Tom... Mahon can't "advocate" for anything. It's a 2D, paper-thin character with less substance than an extra in Eastenders.

 

[Deareim]

Just use two accounts and alternate them every 12 hours.

Just use 4 accounts and alternate every 5 hours. Or different. Lots of possibilities.

 

[Ribbsey]

Just role play it, I mean robots replace us in real life ... it's not so hard to believe they'd have autonomous trader bots in ED ...

FD have already done combat bots (PVE) maybe these Script Warriors have saved FD the job writing trade bots into the game

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Also, we have seen no other evidence, that someone creating a bot to launch from the docking pad, exit the station and then... We're 'told' it's effecting the entire game. I'm left wondering; Having left the station they have to;

a. Orientate to the jump vector. Not easy, as it can be anywhere. We have not seen this

Unfortunately, this is very easy. Not going to reveal how it's done, but it should be obvious. Why do you say we haven't seen this? Did you watch the vid in the OP where it was shown over and over?

b. Perform the jump.. Easy peasy if aligned
c. Enter the new system and orientate from jump in point. Easy
d. Navigate to supercruise drop point. This is very difficult.

Unfortunately, this is also very easy. Perhaps you should PM me because misinformation like this doesn't help.

The only part of the whole round-trip that's mildly complex is the undocking and traversing the mail slot. Since this was shown in the example vids, everyone should assume the remainder as a given.

So, to believe the OP, someone has created this, and kept it super secret, and with all that ability and indeed, intelligence, is using it to mess with someone's powerplay? In open where it is super visible and super obvious?

What I saw in the vids was a very unsophisticated bot, obviously written by an amateur. As you say yourself, you or I could code one that would be virtually undetectable. So why is it so strange that given such an unsophisticated bot (and presumably operator), that it would accidentally be run in open, or through hubris (as has already been suggested by others), or it's simply bot timing error accidentally sending it into open.

This unsophisticated bot surfacing in open (accidentally or otherwise) is IMO the tip of the iceberg. You'd be naive not to assume that for every crude bot like this there might be dozens of other bots, far better coded, virtually undetectable, that always run in solo. For every hour this crude bot ran in open, we and FDev should assume thousands of hours running in solo, by this bot and many others.

 

[MarkAusten]

No it stops before the ship is into the slot. Watch at 1:37: the NPC is coming from above, you can see the Cutter braking when the NPC is still a bit above it and both are at some distance from the slot.

I hadn't noticed that so I took another look. The bot moves forward and if anything moves in the field of view it stops until nothing is moving or it has a clear view of the slot. Then it exits. Still doable without scraping the memory although you will need to do some image analysis to get this behaviour.

 

[ilo]

So, to believe the OP, someone has created this, and kept it super secret, and with all that ability and indeed, intelligence, is using it to mess with someone's powerplay? In open where it is super visible and super obvious?

I will keep saying this until boredom just because I've seen this over and over again, not in ED. Programmers develop the 'capability' and users purchase the bot to use them. Being a super-talented programmer capable of automating one thing does not prevent your 'customer' from using your super-duper program in the most stupid way possible.

 

[MarkAusten]

I think you're being very selective in what you reply to. I posted a full breakdown and analysis. While I agree 'in part' to your 'ego' narrative, the story as a whole, simply does not add up. No sane person buys game accounts at this volume to show they can code a script. So the question still remains..



Yep, in agreement there, except for the 'paying for new accounts' - Sounds like someone with disposable income, a huge chip, and not very bright...

In reply to the ego part of your post, I'll have to disagree. I've worked with programmers like this and one or two of those would spend whatever it took to make them look good. Personally I've never understood that behaviour but I know that it exists.

 

[StonedThoughts]

Oh well, i dont do BGS stuff myself, but this is an real issue FD have to handel.
Good investigation OP!

This. Identifying a bot from its actions at a given moment can be extremely hard, but identifying a pattern in actions is way easier. An account logged and running 24/7 is easily recognizable server side and should immediately raise a red flag, just to say the first obvious thing.

Imho detecting patterns is actualy the only thing FD can do a the moment.
I dont know if someone came up with it allready, but I think/fear FD realy have to decide when Scripts become Cheating now.

I mean, Scripts/Makros in general are totally fine imho, im sure I use quite the same "undock-script" myself.
Its a standart command for the HCS-Voice Packs (wich, or better Voiceattack at all, are great fun to use AND extend, "programming" my own Ship-Computer has become some kind of Meta-Game for me I realy love and enjoy to do)
I dont want to make up any numbers here but im quite sure there are a lot of Cmdrs that use VoiceCommands, Makros, Shortcuts ect on a regular basis without a single bad intention and/or affecting anyone.

And here is the problem: What happens if some people starting to complain about other people having an unfair advantage using second party software/makros at all?
I dont say/think its reasonable though, but technically they would be right and when it comes to online-whatever there is one thing for certain: The bumhurt is strong with someone.

So while i agree that FDev have to take some action about the issue, i think they also should/need to come up with some kind of rule set of what is accepted to prevent further "confusion" (what is quite sad, since its just the good ol "few idiots who make things more complicated as they need to be for the large majority and overall great Playerbase" thing)

Edit: Kinda Ninjad in some post while typing [noob]

 

[ilo]

As you say yourself, you or I could code one that would be virtually undetectable. So why is it so strange that given such an unsophisticated bot (and presumably operator), that it would accidentally be run in open, or through hubris (as has already been suggested by others), or it's simply bot timing error accidentally sending it into open.

In my mind I always had the feeling when you want to do something doubtful, the best way is not to be suspicious. The users of the bot might had thought FD would be more focused on detecting automated scripts in solo/PG modes as the 'hiding modes' instead of the plain sight of open.

 

[MarkAusten]

Just use 4 accounts and alternate every 5 hours. Or different. Lots of possibilities.

Or even better random intervals of not less than 2 hours and not more than 12 that may or may not overlap across accounts.

As you say. many possibilities that are so easy to think up and all put together by a competent programmer would make bot behaviour virtually undetectable.

Hence my conclusion that either the programmer is not that good, or that they wanted to be found out possibly even both.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I hadn't noticed that so I took another look. The bot moves forward and if anything moves in the field of view it stops until nothing is moving or it has a clear view of the slot. Then it exits. Still doable without scraping the memory although you will need to do some image analysis to get this behaviour.

Correct. It's just a few extra lines in the script, completely necessary lines, since we all know when we dock or undock, FDev's programmers have conveniently made all the NPCs dock/undock at the same time, effectively blocking our path. It's all part of the docking/undocking "mini-game".