Automation and Scripting - An investigation into further abuses of BGS and Powerplay

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DaveB

DaveB
Larzok said:
I've been playing this game since Xbox GPP, I'm not a new comer. This is just one of the many and varied idiotic oversights in the design of the game. And considering the "cannon" is flapping in the breeze anyways with no solid anchor or even REAL time line not provided by a wiki your argument is silly they retcon and disregard so much of what goes on why would it matter if the Private/solo side isn't cannon? Those who hide in those modes don't WANT to be a part of the over all world, they shouldn't be allowed to manipulate it.
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Oh, this is priceless...

This was a settled question long before the XBox GPP. You guys on the consoles were one of the REASONS it was a settled question. For so long as there are different instances there will be people that are never instanced together. You and I, for example. We're on different platforms and we can both be in open and the only two cmdrs in some system and we'll still never see each other. We're still playing in the same galaxy though, same BGS, same PP (not that I bother to paint a target on my back for zero real return, so don't PP at all)

Whatever platform you're on, whatever your matchmaking setting are, there are people on every platform with every possible variant of matchmaking setup that are both actively working against you and permanently invisible to you. This was the case before the game was even available on your platform and FDev had categorically stated that it would not change. Which you should have known before you bought in when it came available for your platform.

So either you managed to avoid coming within parsecs of anything resembling due diligence or you knew the situation and bought in anyway. Either way you're on pretty thin ice griping about it now.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
CMDR Tom D said:
Thats a really obnoxious stance to take when we've just explained to you the scale of battle we're dealing with here.
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I'm not into artificial advantage (otherwise known as cheating). Buying multiple accounts to add extra pips is cheating, like botting. My stance hasn't changed in the slightest.

I don't care what FDEV say about the extra account exploit, they've spent four years failing miserably to deal with cheating so who cares what they think. It's not like it matters.

They are like a supply teacher who has lost control of the class.
 

ChromaLemon

ChromaLemon
As someone passionate about PvP, I believe Power Players and BGS commanders have a very good reason to be upset. I sympathize wholeheartedly on this issue. People scripting something like BGS or PP is trivializing other people's work. Why have 20 guys running BGS if you can use 5 bot accounts and run them 24/7 to completely undue those 20 people's efforts? Those 20 people have lives and stuff (I hope), so they're not always glued to the computer. Not to mention, running only BGS all the time is stressful and wears on you.

Frontier should certainly investigate this issue and look into actually taking action against cheaters and people scripting. If they don't this issue will only become worse with time. It has to be nipped in the bud before it festers into pure cancer.

If you can't see why automating work on PP/BGS is bad, then you must not care at all about your work at all. Yeah, it's a game, great. But people are allowed to be passionate about things and botting shouldn't ruin a player's experience.


Footnote: What is being scripted matters. Scripting pips is a QOL thing that still requires the user to play the game. It doesn't give you an unfair advantage and requires the player to be actually playing the game. Scripting a trade route gives you an unfair advantage since you're technically earning credits/committing acts against the BGS without actually committing them. This is completely automated and is not right.
 

Faybs

Faybs
This is what happens when you make your gameplay loop a constant repeat of the same few simple operations - the game becomes easy to bot. If the game switched up things (say by sending you to different random stations to buy and sell PP vouchers) then it would be a lot tougher to bot PP. I'd be willing to bet real money there are alread High Grade Emissions bots in existence, since the piloting involved is trivial (cruise in any direction until you're in deep space, throttle back to .5c and wait for the right kind of signal source, then just home in, drop in, open the collector, select top item in Contacts, home in on it at low speed until caught, then repeat until no Contacts left, then jump to SC and repeat until bored) and the only real skill involved is how much patience you have.
 

Faybs

Faybs
Shohdef said:
As someone passionate about PvP, I believe Power Players and BGS commanders have a very good reason to be upset. I sympathize wholeheartedly on this issue. People scripting something like BGS or PP is trivializing other people's work. Why have 20 guys running BGS if you can use 5 bot accounts and run them 24/7 to completely undue those 20 people's efforts? Those 20 people have lives and stuff (I hope), so they're not always glued to the computer. Not to mention, running only BGS all the time is stressful and wears on you.

Frontier should certainly investigate this issue and look into actually taking action against cheaters and people scripting. If they don't this issue will only become worse with time. It has to be nipped in the bud before it festers into pure cancer.

If you can't see why automating work on PP/BGS is bad, then you must not care at all about your work at all. Yeah, it's a game, great. But people are allowed to be passionate about things and botting shouldn't ruin a player's experience.


Footnote: What is being scripted matters. Scripting pips is a QOL thing that still requires the user to play the game. It doesn't give you an unfair advantage and requires the player to be actually playing the game. Scripting a trade route gives you an unfair advantage since you're technically earning credits/committing acts against the BGS without actually committing them. This is completely automated and is not right.
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I'm pretty certain that FDev is terrified of losing customers by doing periodic ban sweeps like other MMOs do. Combat logging may be hard to avoid because of the game's P2P networking model, but it's not hard to detect that a given player has a consistently good network connection right up until they get into combat. Same with these bots - they were certain enough that botting was happening because they gave the bots a 30 day timeout, but lacked the determination to lock out the player doing the botting (not the account - ED accounts are not that expensive, and a determined cheat can buy them in bulk during a sale when they become extremely cheap).

Demascus said:
*Yawn* BGS problems...... zzzzzz
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The BGS is just how these bots got caught. If these ones exist, there most likely are other kinds of bot as well.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
Faybs said:
I'm pretty certain that FDev is terrified of losing customers by doing periodic ban sweeps like other MMOs do. Combat logging may be hard to avoid because of the game's P2P networking model, but it's not hard to detect that a given player has a consistently good network connection right up until they get into combat. Same with these bots - they were certain enough that botting was happening because they gave the bots a 30 day timeout, but lacked the determination to lock out the player doing the botting (not the account - ED accounts are not that expensive, and a determined cheat can buy them in bulk during a sale when they become extremely cheap).

The BGS is just how these bots got caught. If these ones exist, there most likely are other kinds of bot as well.
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Yep, bansweeps are a problem there's never a time when the front page of dangerous discussion doesn't have a few cash/exploit threads on the go. They can't ban because it's too widespread and considered acceptable.
 

master_xean

master_xean
Night Parrot said:
Hi CMDR Tom D,

Awesome documented investigation!

I’d like to throw in a suggestion your way, and if you agree, you could pass it on to FDEV. So, I suggest a simple image-based security access to Station Services like CAPTCHA e.g click on the limpet:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/156205264448651265/424705260951568384/Captcha.png

There are many other forms of CAPTCHA but something that works in with some Elite Dangerous lore would be nice, and I for one wouldn't mind just a little CAPTCHA when I dock to ensure our game rolls with less cheating.
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Yeah because ED doesnt have enough nuisance time waste minigames for no reason. We need an extra one for no reason.

Space Mage said:
Everyone enjoys doing different things in their free time. For example you seem to enjoy making poorly spelled comments deriding how someone chooses to have fun and that seems ridiculous to me.
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"stalking people isnt cool even if u think its fun" isnt exactly some bold new statement

"but I think its fun" isnt an excuse for anything u know?
 

master_xean

master_xean
texasp8 said:
Bots aren't people. The word stalking can imply harassment and intimidation, which are don't think are applicable here. There are many things I do in many computer games that I don't do to my neighbours.
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it can imply that but it doesnt always

like the OP could be looking out his window at his neighbor Sarah and keeping notes on when she comes and goes and who she meets up with, detailed records of the license plates of cars that visit her house and building dossiers on boys he sees over there all without her ever knowing he doing it

its not a normal behavior though u see?
 

AdrienRemaz

AdrienRemaz
master_xean said:
it can imply that but it doesnt always

like the OP could be looking out his window at his neighbor Sarah and keeping notes on when she comes and goes and who she meets up with, detailed records of the license plates of cars that visit her house and building dossiers on boys he sees over there all without her ever knowing he doing it

its not a normal behavior though u see?
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But isn't the result of this "not normal behavior" this very thread? Finding inconsistencies in your spreadsheet and investigating them isn't normal? You sound like you have something to hide.
There's a problem here, and you're questioning our methods. WE FOUND SOMETHING, DIDN'T WE?
 

Good Death

Good Death
master_xean said:
it can imply that but it doesnt always

like the OP could be looking out his window at his neighbor Sarah and keeping notes on when she comes and goes and who she meets up with, detailed records of the license plates of cars that visit her house and building dossiers on boys he sees over there all without her ever knowing he doing it

its not a normal behavior though u see?
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My inner Elite Detective is telling me that you may be the part of the guilty party.[wink]
 

master_xean

master_xean
AdrienRemaz said:
But isn't the result of this "not normal behavior" this very thread? Finding inconsistencies in your spreadsheet and investigating them isn't normal? You sound like you have something to hide.
There's a problem here, and you're questioning our methods. WE FOUND SOMETHING, DIDN'T WE?
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What does this even mean???

texasp8 said:
OP could, but that's got nothing to do with this thread, or any computer game.
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it the same behavior
 

Space Mage

S
master_xean said:
it can imply that but it doesnt always

like the OP could be looking out his window at his neighbor Sarah and keeping notes on when she comes and goes and who she meets up with, detailed records of the license plates of cars that visit her house and building dossiers on boys he sees over there all without her ever knowing he doing it

its not a normal behavior though u see?
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This is such an absurd argument you have to be trolling. Its not the same behavior, OP's just playing the game not committing a crime.
 
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