Europe pack: megathread

[SibCDC]

I know most of the discussion in this thread has tackled animals but I think Europe also has to offer a wide variety of options for scenery. The rich history and the cultural variety of the continent means a scenery pack could include anything from classic Italian renaissance to north-western European gothic architecture. Personally I'd love to see 2 styles make it into a Europe DLC;

1. Gothic scenery: not to be confused with your classic horror gothic, but moreso referring to the style that many historical churches are built in. Gothic architecture has some great features such as buttresses, pointed arches, rib vaults, spires, traceries and intricate detailed windows. Just look at the following image and tell me that you wouldn't want to have something like this in PZ.
   
   

   

   
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2. Art Nouveau scenery: Art Nouveau is a style originating from Western Europe in the late 19th century and is mostly used in interior design. It has this magic feeling surrounding it and I think that in combination with the Gothic style, it would allow for some nice fantasy themed zones. What's great about Art Nouveau is also how widely popular it became throughout Europe, making it truly a European feature. In France and Belgium it's Art Nouveau, in German it's Jugendstil, in Catalan it's Modernisme català etc. etc. It would add some great pieces to use in interiors and Art Nouveau murals are just absolutely beautiful, as one of its characteristics is drawing a lot from nature, using floral elements and animals.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I would say taxonomic variety is important, as a game focusing on animals should reasonably be showing a good spectrum of biodiversity. Of course, the purview of the game naturally skews things towards amniotes. Though that is still perfectly workable for variety.

I agree,… mostly. There’s an obvious skew towards amniotes, in part, because large terrestrial animals are all amniotes. I agree that taxonomic diversity is important, but the rank itself isn’t the primary consideration… should monotremes and placental mammals have the same representation, just because they’re a similar rank (simplifying a little here for clarity)?

 

[DragonNTiger]

So while we don't need to focus on each and every genus, this weird focus on canines and ursines (and somewhat felines, which to their credit are more diverse as a group than the other two) is not representing of real life zoos.

How do you know? Have you been to them all? I know Columbus Zoo has at least two canids, eight cats and four bears (could be more, I'm working from memory).

In any case, I'm pretty sure this game and its options are meant to reflect any real world zoo.

 

[Mjmannella]

The Columbus Zoo certainly doesn't focus on carnviorans

 

[Bearcat9948]

The Columbus Zoo certainly doesn't focus on carnviorans

Those lists are from 2012 and 2014, I can't imagine they are accurate, just to point that out.

 

[ElectricMonk]

W

The Columbus Zoo certainly doesn't focus on carnviorans

If you exclude the flying birds, fully marine animals and domesticated animals I’m not so sure that the ratio of carnivorans to other taxa would be all the at different to habitat animals in PZ

 

[Spiderhawk]

we will get a Europe pack one day for sure

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Another thing towards an europe pack, especally if its an animal pack, would be to also expand northamerica fauna, i would say 1 for a 4+1 and 2-3 for an animal pack.
The most noteworthy and likly ones would be the redfox and wolverine, but to some extends wild boar, walrus and any domestic animals would also count.

 

[Aramar]

Another thing towards an europe pack, especally if its an animal pack, would be to also expand northamerica fauna, i would say 1 for a 4+1 and 2-3 for an animal pack.
The most noteworthy and likly ones would be the redfox and wolverine, but to some extends wild boar, walrus and any domestic animals would also count.

The red fox would also expand Northern Africa fauna and Middle East fauna (well all Asia). Also Australian fauna, although I think they are a pest there and an invasive species.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

I mean yeah, theres a reason i call him mr Worldwide, good call

 

[avietar]

Nah, I personally would've ditched the cougar for something else. a Canadian lynx or bobcat would be more distinct if you absolutely needed a cat for some reason (you don't). And frankly I'd do some even more extreme revisions of the game's current felid roster if given the opportunity.

Feel free to reply in my thread 'Alternative Universe' and describe how you would have done PZ, including base roster and DLCs!

 

[ElectricMonk]

I say it’s time to throw in some true European or at least Eurasian species that are not too similar to their NA/Asian/African relatives.

1. Red deer. Many players would like a deer that isn’t moose or reindeer

How is this not similar to NA relatives? It is also found in Asia.

2. Alpine Ibex: a super cool animal that is highly requested

How is this not similar to Asian and African relatives (e.g. other ibex species)?

3. Iberian lynx: europe could use a feline plus there’s a hint in the conservation boards.

How is this not similar to other Eurasian or NA species (lynx, bobcats)

4.badger

Asia

5. Fire Salamander

Asia

Then just add europe+ animals
6. Walrus

Asia and NA

7. Red fox

Asia and NA

8. Wolverine

Asia and NA

Overall: only 2 species endemic to Europe, both of which are very similar to species found across Asia and NA. I don’t see how your list is really much more European than all the European animals already in-game.

Theme: I really, really wouldn’t like a theme as unrealistic as ‘magical forest’ or Harry Potter or similar - it doesn’t feel at all like something you’d find in a zoo I’d want to visit - much more like a theme park.

EDIT: Note that I have nothing against your species list (it’s quite a good one), I just don’t see how they are not similar to species in other regions…

 

[DragonNTiger]

How is this not similar to NA relatives? It is also found in Asia.

How is this not similar to Asian and African relatives (e.g. other ibex species)?

How is this not similar to other Eurasian or NA species (lynx, bobcats)

Asia


Asia

Asia and NA

Asia and NA

Asia and NA

Overall: only 2 species endemic to Europe, both of which are very similar to species found across Asia and NA. I don’t see how your list is really much more European than all the European animals already in-game.

Theme: I really, really wouldn’t like a theme as unrealistic as ‘magical forest’ or Harry Potter or similar - it doesn’t feel at all like something you’d find in a zoo I’d want to visit - much more like a theme park.

EDIT: Note that I have nothing against your species list (it’s quite a good one), I just don’t see how they are not similar to species in other regions…

Hmm... by this sort of strict standards, wouldn't the only true North American animal in the NA pack be the prarie dog? Everything else is either found outside of North America (Cougar, moose, Arctic fox) or has related species found outside North America (Chinese Alligator, galapagos sea lion, European beaver).

 

[NZFanatic]

Hmm... by this sort of strict standards, wouldn't the only true North American animal in the NA pack be the prarie dog? Everything else is either found outside of North America (Cougar, moose, Arctic fox) or has related species found outside North America (Chinese Alligator, galapagos sea lion, European beaver).

Yeah I really don't understand, and am getting kind of annoyed by, this idea that Europe has to have "specifically European species" to qualify for a DLC while North America, which is at least just as boring and needless (if you think Europe is boring or needless, which I do not), gets a pass on a bunch of animals that are found all over the Americas and Eurasia. It's such a pointless debate and it's hard to see the "anti-Europe" side as being intellectually honest.

 

[Mjmannella]

Yeah I really don't understand, and am getting kind of annoyed by, this idea that Europe has to have "specifically European species" to qualify for a DLC while North America, which is at least just as boring and needless (if you think Europe is boring or needless, which I do not), gets a pass on a bunch of animals that are found all over the Americas and Eurasia. It's such a pointless debate and it's hard to see the "anti-Europe" side as being intellectually honest.

The only location pack that really abides by total endemism this would be the SEA Pack, given the tight focus. I don't see why a Europe Pack should have this constraint.

• Dall sheep and caribou have plenty of non-Arctic range
• Jaguars and giant anteaters have North American ranges, red-eyed tree fogs are also barely found in South America by the way so they really have no business being in a South America Pack
• Southern cassowaries are found in New Guinea (which is totally part of Oceania but, Frontier has a frankly bizarre perception of continents)
• Sacred scarab beetles are found in many Eurasian countries

 

[ElectricMonk]

Hmm... by this sort of strict standards, wouldn't the only true North American animal in the NA pack be the prarie dog? Everything else is either found outside of North America (Cougar, moose, Arctic fox) or has related species found outside North America (Chinese Alligator, galapagos sea lion, European beaver).

I didn’t make the criterion. I didn’t say the animal choices were bad (quite the opposite). I didn’t say the animals in a European pack had to be endemic or unique. My post was a response to a specific post of Spiderhawk’s where they said the animals in a Europe pack should be not too similar to species in other regions. To quote what I said:

Note that I have nothing against your species list (it’s quite a good one), I just don’t see how they are not similar to species in other regions…

 

[ElectricMonk]

Yeah I really don't understand, and am getting kind of annoyed by, this idea that Europe has to have "specifically European species" to qualify for a DLC while North America, which is at least just as boring and needless (if you think Europe is boring or needless, which I do not), gets a pass on a bunch of animals that are found all over the Americas and Eurasia. It's such a pointless debate and it's hard to see the "anti-Europe" side as being intellectually honest.

Fair but, as above, I never said that.

 

[NZFanatic]

Fair but, as above, I never said that.

It's not just you, or even at all you.

 

[ElectricMonk]

It's not just you, or even at all you.

Apologies, from context (post above yours) I assumed it was a response to my post. I actually haven’t seen many (any?) people say that a Europe pack has to contain only, or even mostly, endemics. I have, however, seen people asking for a Europe pack complaining that the animals already in-game shouldn’t be counted as European animals, since they’re not unique to Europe.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

I think a Spring time would be perfect for a European DLC. With a nice spring forest thematic it could be a quite a nice dlc.
As for the animals my picks would be:

1. Eurasian Lynx

2. Red Deer

3. European Badger

4. Red Fox

5. Alpine Ibex

6. Wolverine

7. Crested Porcupine (ok, this one is a bit of far fetched, but still a way to introduce them to the game, they are present in Italy)

Hands down a dream pack! Please apply at Frontier