External View [A definitive discussion]

[Theodrid]

Mike's post did give me some temporary closure, I will admit.

However, I am still convinced that down the line an external view will be implemented.

Even though they have made the decision that this game will be experienced from only a pilots view, it doesn't mean it was the right decision and as had been stated by FD staff, things can and will change.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on your wording there Riedquat. I'm not sure what it is that leaves you 'convinced' or what makes you so certain of change in the future.

From my point of view, (no pun intended), things may change in the future, but I am far from convinced on the matter. DB/FDev are making the game they want, and even if there is a massive call for 3rdppov there is still no guarantee of change unless the 'bonus' of PVP balancing can be addressed and of course that Fdev and DB have a fairly large change of mind and direction.

 

[NeilF]

Of course you are right with regards to the discussion, and until that post by Mike was made, that was exactly what myself, NeilF and others were doing. What that post has done is blast a big hole in the side of this thread,, it is the elephant in the room. The discussion, some may argue, is pointless beyond that post by Mike.

I'm still not clear TBH on what that post by Mike really meant? - http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=329873#post329873

Is it suggesting no external view at all? If so why not come out and say rather than being a little vague? And it's take 70 pages of the thread for that comment to come out? Again, if it's that black and white, then why be vague and why take so long?

Or is it suggesting no traditional external view. ie: Where you can fly your ship equally well from outside the ship as inside? I think all/most of us don't want that.

I'm confused :S

 

[Riedquat]

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on your wording there Riedquat. I'm not sure what it is that leaves you 'convinced' or what makes you so certain of change in the future.

From my point of view, (no pun intended), things may change in the future, but I am far from convinced on the matter. DB/FDev are making the game they want, and even if there is a massive call for 3rdppov there is still no guarantee of change unless the 'bonus' of PVP balancing can be addressed and of course that Fdev and DB have a fairly large change of mind and direction.

ok, you can use the word 'sure' instead

 

[Theodrid]

I'm still not clear TBH on what that post by Mike really meant? - http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=329873#post329873

Is it suggesting no external view at all? If so why not come out and say rather than being a little vague? And it's take 70 pages of the thread for that comment to come out? Again, if it's that black and white, then why be vague and why take so long?

Or is it suggesting no traditional external view. ie: Where you can fly your ship equally well from outside the ship as inside?

I'm confused :S

What are you confused about Neil? - you seemed fairly certain of its meaning yesterday. If you read Jack Booted's post and what Mike posts in reply it seems pretty clear to me.

 

[NeilF]

What are you confused about Neil? - you seemed fairly certain of its meaning yesterday. If you read Jack Booted's post and what Mike posts in reply it seems pretty clear to me.

Well, I did raise the same question mark(s) yesterday too.

It's clear Mike's post is endorsing the vision that cockpit view is the primary "vision". But again, if it's as black and white as that's the only place you can ever see the game from, and there will be no external view, then why leave it open to debate/question? A single parsing comment in a thread that's somewhat open to interpretation?

A small part of my logic says FD indeed plan the cockpit to be the main place to play the game from, but they'd like to offer an external view (they've mentioned drones), and they simply can't say yes or no yet because they can't make that final decision until the game mechanics are all in place and they can see if it will fit without breaking some aspect(s) of the game.

My poor head


TBH, I'd just like some clarification from FD just to put us out of our misery and/or set expectations.

I think we'd all like that.

 

[jabokai]

Of course you are right with regards to the discussion, and until that post by Mike was made, that was exactly what myself, NeilF and others were doing. What that post has done is blast a big hole in the side of this thread,, it is the elephant in the room. The discussion, some may argue, is pointless beyond that post by Mike.

They said they wouldn't give us a key binding to the landing gear... but the discussion went on anyway... now, they've added one (it's not in the current build, but will be present soon). Not saying the conversation convinced them, they may have come to that decision entirely internally... point is, they do change their minds. I don't expect them to on this, but no reason for those who'd like this to stop talking about it... you never know.

 

[Theodrid]

Well, I did raise the same question mark(s) yesterday too.

It's clear Mike's post is endorsing the vision that cockpit view is the primary "vision". But again, if it's as black and white as that's the only place you can ever see the game from, and there will be no external view, then why leave it open to debate/question? A single parsing comment in a thread that's somewhat open to interpretation?

A small part of my logic says FD indeed plan the cockpit to be the main place to play the game from, but they'd like to offer an external view (they've mentioned drones), and they simply can't say yes or no yet because they can't make that final decision until the game mechanics are all in place and they can see if it will fit without break some aspect(s) of the game.

My poor head

Yeah, the drone aspect does still exist, (I think), and offer some hope to the pro 3rdppov crowd. The problem may well be to do with the added 'bonus' of balancing in PVP situations as Mike put it.

But what are they leaving open to discussion? - Do you mean leaving the thread open? If so, its a valid point, however, until Mike or A. N. Other posts in this thread with 'drones ar ein' or the like then I will reserve judgement. Indeed, Mike's post, saying nothing in regards to drones or anythinh else 'pro' 3rdppov speaks volumes in itself.

 

[NeilF]

But what are they leaving open to discussion? - Do you mean leaving the thread open? If so, its a valid point, however, until Mike or A. N. Other posts in this thread with 'drones ar ein' or the like then I will reserve judgement. Indeed, Mike's post, saying nothing in regards to drones or anythinh else 'pro' 3rdppov speaks volumes in itself.

Well, this is clearly the confusion then...

I suspect most people hoping for an external view are more than happy with a drone to achieve this, assuming it gives a suitably good/clear view etc. And I also suspect people would see such an approach (the drone) as a good method of nerfing external view in such a way to ensure it's not a tactical/combat advantage.

So you (& others) saying even after Mike's comment that this feature could well still be on the table, means we're no closer to resolving if we'll indeed have an external view or not :S

ie: Has Mike's comments simply closed the door on an option no one is really after? An instant all encompassing external view where you can play the game just as well as from the cockpit? Well, none (few) of us wanted or expected that anyway!?

Yours Truly, Mr Confused

 

[Memnoch]

I'm still not clear TBH on what that post by Mike really meant? - http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=329873#post329873

Is it suggesting no external view at all? If so why not come out and say rather than being a little vague?

It seems pretty clear to me and I was aware of this before this thread even started.

 

[NeilF]

It seems pretty clear to me and I was aware of this before this thread even started.

Well help me/us out here then

What's he saying?

 

[Memnoch]

You're not going to like it!

 

[Tinman]

Well, this is clearly the confusion then...

I suspect most people hoping for an external view are more than happy with a drone to achieve this, assuming it gives a suitably good/clear view etc. And I also suspect people would see such an approach (the drone) as a good method of nerfing external view in such a way to ensure it's not a tactical/combat advantage.

So you (& others) saying even after Mike's comment that this feature could well still be on the table, means we're no closer to resolving if we'll indeed have an external view or not :S

ie: Has Mike's comments simply closed the door on an option no one is really after? An instant all encompassing external view where you can play the game just as well as from the cockpit? Well, none (few) of us wanted or expected that anyway!?

Yours Truly, Mr Confused

Here are some comments from Michael. I think their view on this is pretty clear.

(Press the small arrow if you want to read the comment in context.)

There's no third person view for flying the ship, the game is about you in your cockpit and based around that central premise. There may be some external cameras views in certain situations, but the game is played as a commander in the cockpit.

Michael

There's no external view, it's cockpit view only. We may add camera drones or similar for the final game, but it won't be a third person view that you can fly in.

Michael

We absolutely think the cockpit is necessary, we are looking at some situations and methods for external views, but the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

Michael

Some of the HUD comes via implants, so there will be some commonality and visibility when you're not in the pilot's chair. However the cockpit has always been a physical presence for us, so the simple answer is that we want it that way

Michael

 

[NeilF]

Here are some comments from Michael. I think their view on this is pretty clear.

(Press the small arrow if you want to read the comment in context.)

Yes, and none of those seem to contradict the wishes expressed in the OP of this thread at all?

So I'm totally, utterly, confused? Surely we're still in the same limbo?

You're not going to like it!

So you're suggesting absolutely no external view at all?

 

[Gulinborsti]

Here are some comments from Michael. I think their view on this is pretty clear.

(Press the small arrow if you want to read the comment in context.)

Thanks for summarizing these quotes up .

 

[Memnoch]

So you're suggesting absolutely no external view at all?

Pretty much, yes. The vision FD have set out is that we are the pilot, sitting in a cockpit and the game will be played from that viewpoint. Note that they did state they hadn't ruled out camera drones entirely, but you would not be able to pilot your ship from that view.

 

[Tinman]

Yes, and none of those seem to contradict the wishes expressed in the OP of this thread at all?

So I'm totally, utterly, confused? Surely we're still in the same limbo?

What limbo?

There will probably some sort of external view in the game as long as it's "in cockpit" and from the eyes of the commander. That seems pretty clear to me, there is no limbo here.

Sure they might not have confirmed these features yet. But that's just the way of FD. When they know for sure that they have something that works they will tell us or maybe even release a build that suddenly has that in there. But until that point these kind of comments from Michael are the closest we're going to get to an "answer".

 

[NeilF]

What limbo?

There will probably some sort of external view in the game as long as it's "in cockpit" and from the eyes of the commander. That seems pretty clear to me, there is no limbo here.

Sure they might not have confirmed these features yet. But that's just the way of FD. When they know for sure that they have something that works they will tell us or maybe even release a build that suddenly has that in there. But until that point these kind of comments from Michael are the closest we're going to get to an "answer".

OK... Assuming something pans out, you're interpreting the comments as meaning an external view in some form of hud display?

Strange, I read those same comments and see it saying that cockpit view is king - which we all know - but implying any external view will be there simply not in any way to promote flying/experiencing the game?

the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

We may add camera drones or similar for the final game, but it won't be a third person view that you can fly in.

ie: I don't see it suggesting it will be in a HUD display in the ship? And I don't see anything suggesting external view is completely off the table?

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

The English language is not really that difficult to understand folks.

 

[NeilF]

The English language is not really that difficult to understand folks.

By all means help clear the matter up then.

You'll have to excuse me if I'm being dim, but due to a recent post my Mark in this thread we seem to have groups of people suggesting now:-
1) We can kiss goodbye to external view completely.
2) External view may exist, but it'll be HUD / in cockpit only.
3) External view may exist, but it'll be drone only, with cockpit view being the primary control/game play position.

(3) Of course is what most people interested in an exterior view have been expecting anyway?


Personally I can't see how any official comments do anything other than suggest (2) or (3).

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

By all means help clear the matter up then.

The matter seems pretty clear to me, 'tis just that some people don't like it.