I do sometimes get the impression Neil that the only thing that will make you see the 'elephant in the room' regarding 3rdppov will be a private message from David Braben himself saying, 'sorry Neil, no 3rdppov'. That is, as I'm sure you are aware, very unlikely to happen so you really should take a step back, take off your 'pro external' hat for a second and see what is plain in front of your face.
External View [A definitive discussion]
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I do sometimes get the impression Neil that the only thing that will make you see the 'elephant in the room' regarding 3rdppov will be a private message from David Braben himself saying, 'sorry Neil, no 3rdppov'. That is, as I'm sure you are aware, very unlikely to happen so you really should take a step back, take off your 'pro external' hat for a second and see what is plain in front of your face.
Sorry, you missed my edit. I'll repeat it here:-
...due to a recent post my Mark in this thread we seem to have groups of people suggesting now:-
1) We can kiss goodbye to external view completely.
2) External view may exist, but it'll be HUD / in cockpit only.
3) External view may exist, but it'll be drone only, with cockpit view being the primary control/game play position.
So what are you suggesting?
I apologise if I'm being dim here, but if we look at all the comments being mentioned here:-
I struggle to see anything in there that suggests anything other than:-
1) Cockpit is the most important location in the game.
2) An external view may exist offered by some form of drone, but it will not be a piloting position. ie: Cockpit is king.
If I've missed something please point it out :S
It all seems rather vague to me, so if any of you guys are suggesting there will be no external view by drone or the like, I'm failing to see where you get that impression at the moment? You may well be correct, but I can't see those comments directly promoting that?
Your interpretation is fine except I would say that the "eyes of the commander" is king instead.
(Since the plan is to eventually have the option to leave the cockpit in later expansions...)The main issue here is that people seem to be mixing up terms like "3rd person view" and "external view" and what these things actually mean within the context of the game. This will of course create a lot of confusion...
Your interpretation is fine except I would say that the "eyes of the commander" is king instead.
The main issue here is that people seem to be mixing up terms like "3rd person view" and "external view" and what these things actually mean within the context of the game. This will of course create a lot of confusion...
Well, I'd hope 3rd person is nothing to do with this thread. As you know, this thread is ideally solely about obtaining a simple external view of your ship (not to compete against the cockpit).
But we seem to be getting cross message where some people (eg: Theodrid) seem to be suggesting external view is dead:-
Well I'm being as level headed and impartial as possible, and none of the comments seem to suggest external view is dead? It may well be the case, but from my interpretation of the comments, they don't suggest that.
I'm catching up with your view of the game here, hence you suggesting a HUD display in the cockpit. Makes some sense! But if your impression is correct, seemingly Theodrid and others are not in agreement as from what I can understand they seem to be taking the matter as no external view at all? Anyway, should your view pan out, I can't help but wonder how large/clear/useful it will be. Guess we'll see when we see on that one!
So you sort of think we may end up with something along these lines? - http://i.imgur.com/9Vklz3Pl.jpg
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It is open to interpretation though.
No, Neil, as I said in a previous post the scope for a 'drone' scenario has not been completely ruled out, indeed, it has been eluded to in some of the quotes from the dev team that have been quoted, but an external view in effect has. Now are they the same thing? - I don't think they are, judging from the same quotes any potential drone is going to be even more limited than any 'suggestions/fixes' in your OP.
I think we can all accept then that a "magical" external view won't exist. FD have been fairly clear on their view on this area. Most folks have never wanted it anyway.
So if assume a drone is being offered in some shape or form, we are still down to how much of an external view we get via a drone. At one end of the scale will they be fairly flexible and give us "external viewers" much of what we'd like. Or will they instead be very limited, indeed down to the level of them actually being for a purpose of some sort(s) and any external view they provide is purely circumstantial.
So we can develop this super complicated chart. Drone capabilities:-
Happy external viewers
<----------- Just about satisfied external viewers -----------> Unhappy external viewers It sounds like the drones will be fairly limited (at best guess), so I guess the question then is just how far down this "scale" we end up.
You'll have to excuse my repeated questioning of you, but you kept coming across as if you were suggesting external view was completely off the table. Hence my confusion!
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Hopefully for those that want it. Some concessions will be made offline where a 360 degree all seeing view won't affect the people who intend to play the game properly and others can make videos etc that they want
Online I would say its a damn relief not a damn shame
Except that the Elite series has always been about believability and, where possible without damaging the gameplay, realism. In both the world and gameplay within it. It's why ships can fly faster than light, but are forced to contend with newtonian physics.
At the end of the day, external views, while really, REALLY nice to have, are not absolutely essential for the game. A lack of external views, while really sucky, would not kill the viability of the game.
Let me say this again:
Lack of external views would not kill the game. It would suck, yes. But it's something that a reasonable gamer can meet half way.
If you just can not accept that, I don't know what to tell you.
Totally agree - Fingers crossed there's some sort of feature in there at the end though
Absolutely!
I have 100% confidence that the devs will implement a solution that keeps the vast majority on both sides happy.
I am sure this must have been proposed before, but why not ad the possibility to launch a remote controlled camera drone.
You would be able to observe your ship any which way you want. It would not be an unfair advantage in combat, because you cannot control the drone and fight at the same time. Also you would not want to lose your expensive device in battle.
What's more a drone could be used for exploring the insides of a space wreck, or a cave in an asteroid etc.
It would be a cool addition to gameplay. Perhaps you could buy upgrades for your drone.
You might use the drone to inspect your ship for damage and do simple repairs with it.
You could outfit the drone with a photo camera and take photographs or even make movies from the viewpoint of the drone.
etc.
This way you would ad a very versatile and truly useful and realistic device to the game and could incorporate outside views in an acceptable realistic way.
You would be able to observe your ship any which way you want. It would not be an unfair advantage in combat, because you cannot control the drone and fight at the same time. Also you would not want to lose your expensive device in battle.
What's more a drone could be used for exploring the insides of a space wreck, or a cave in an asteroid etc.
It would be a cool addition to gameplay. Perhaps you could buy upgrades for your drone.
You might use the drone to inspect your ship for damage and do simple repairs with it.
You could outfit the drone with a photo camera and take photographs or even make movies from the viewpoint of the drone.
etc.
This way you would ad a very versatile and truly useful and realistic device to the game and could incorporate outside views in an acceptable realistic way.
Yes it has...many many times.
But no worries. Considering the length if this thread (and the others like it) NOT reading all of it is the sane thing to do.
Yes it has...many many times.
But no worries. Considering the length if this thread (and the others like it) NOT reading all of it is the sane thing to do.
Indeed, it is impossible to keep up with all of it.
Lack of OR support would not kill the game.
Lack of "immersive" cockpit headlook menu tomfoolery would not kill the game.
Lack of PvP would not kill the game.
Funny how people see some things as dispensable, whereas others see them as essential! Lack of external views would "kill the game" for a certain set of players. Camera viewpoints are really important, and very subjective. I've had numerous otherwise great games I've had to abandon purely because I find the camera objectionable - either it's too close in, or it's locked looking too vertically, or whatever. If it's a solo game often there ends up being an unofficial camera hack but we don't want to go that route here!
I don't suppose a complete lack of any form 3rd person would kill ED for me, I've bought in too heavily for that, but it would be really really disappointing. My list of disappointments has grown rather too large over the last year, sadly
[for ref, no PvE mode, no 3rd person, no HUD-only/cockpit-free, menu mucking about rather than keybinds... : these were all - to me - surprise design revelations made after the KS ended].Lack of OR support would not kill the game.
Lack of "immersive" cockpit headlook menu tomfoolery would not kill the game.
Lack of PvP would not kill the game.
Funny how people see some things as dispensable, whereas others see them as essential! Lack of external views would "kill the game" for a certain set of players. Camera viewpoints are really important, and very subjective. I've had numerous otherwise great games I've had to abandon purely because I find the camera objectionable - either it's too close in, or it's locked looking too vertically, or whatever. If it's a solo game often there ends up being an unofficial camera hack but we don't want to go that route here!
I don't suppose a complete lack of any form 3rd person would kill ED for me, I've bought in too heavily for that, but it would be really really disappointing. My list of disappointments has grown rather too large over the last year, sadly
Some of this news may sound disconcerting, but I guess the proof is in the pudding? ie: When the finished article is out? That's my take on it.
I'm obviously keen on having an external view, but if one is not included in the final game for the right reason... I'm cool with that (I hope)...
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![[VR] Shadowman](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/16/16608.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
If said external view doesn't affect gameplay and simply allows nice views, then if you don't like it, simply don't use it. It won't affect you. No reason not to add them IMO.
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