External View [A definitive discussion]

[[VR] Shadowman]

I know this thread is rather long now, but for those just reading the last posts, and to dispel any wrong impressions, this is what nobody* wants - an arcade mode like these:

We just want a simple external view to enjoy the glorious visuals in the game. We do not want 'advantage in combat'.

The many and varied suggested handicaps/nerfs are to assuage the naysayers, some of whom are so entrenched that apparently nothing will change their mind. They are of course entitled to their view.

On the other hand, the people who would like to enjoy the external visuals seem pretty willing to accept a large number of viewer 'nerfs'.

Can we remember that the game will be exploring, trading, wandering about, whatever... and multiplayer combat. Much of which will be with NPCs.

It isn't Call of Duty in Space.

Have I said we really don't want an arcade God's-eye view like Freelancer?


*Apologies if you are the 0.7% that would like a Freelancer type view. This is never going to happen though.

This.

A space game without external views is just odd.

Given the 4k screens we can currently snap, I'm sad we can't do it right now, let alone later. I'd love to start snapping screens with my ship in the foreground. Even more so when we can add decals and skins.

 

[OldSalt]

I can't remember the last flight sim I played without externals. Yes, it could be used to check for a cold running opponent sneaking up but tbh it's true practical worth in that sort of situation is very limited. I would like to see it implemented and have different camera views.

I have often thought it would be cool to record and watch my ship docking from the pads control tower view.

 

[Memnoch]

Put 3rd person in the game and make that available in the default mode.

As a mode where you can fly your ship, rather than just view it, is probably not going to happen. FD have clearly set out their idea for this game, that you as the player are the pilot. You are viewing the world from your avatars perspective. That's why there isn't even an option to turn off the cockpit, because it is a part of the ship that "you" are sitting in and therefore cannot be turned off.

There was some discussion around having external drones that you would enable you to be able to view your ship from. But these would have no telemetry from your ship projected on to them so you would lose access to flight controls, scanners etc. Some people view that as an acceptable compromise.

 

[Scimitar101]

I would say no. Immersion is exactly the reason why I touch the spacesim genre.

 

[CaptainSodom]

I would say no. Immersion is exactly the reason why I touch the spacesim genre.

Disable the hotkey and your immersion will remain unbroken forever.

No reason to cripple everyone else's game just to appease those who don't like "breaking immersion." Which is a false criticism, given that third person drones are reality in 2014, let alone a few hundred years from now.

 

[Nomadski]

The problem is without any kind of cinematic third person view, we have no way of seeing ship against space, or ship against ship.

I want to see that. I want to see the scale of my ship to others, or to stations, or to the backdrop of space FD are creating.

The immersion doesn't have to be broken, just don't hit that eternal camera key!! Pretend you've ejected yourself out of your ship if you hit it and turn your pc off!

The silliness of not having this is explempified if we get the chance to customise decals etc - how else would we see it?

FTR I do agree with the tactical arguments, this shouldn't be something we play the game as, as such key things should be disabled or unavailable while in this mode, but it should be in there, no question.

 

[scrufferpops]

Well we already have front view, left and right view and up view, how about rear view like in the original?

 

[Antmax]

Stick the external view on that little screen between the pilots knees. Let you choose UI focus on that screen if you want to see it full screen, but make it ineffective for dogfighting.

That would work, only I haven't flown anything but a sidewinder so I don't know if all ships have the same blank display screen.

Even the Mazda 3 has it as standard in most models.

 

[Stodgy]

Keep everything within the ship but add a rear view camera in the cockpit somewhere. That screen between your legs would be ideal. And multiple cameras attached to the hull on the larger ships including one underneath so you can check the landing gear.

Make it low res and add crappy video effects. In a way that's unrealistic for future tech but adds to the immersion and makes it obvious that you are looking at a video feed. It needs to look different from the view out the cockpit that you are seeing with your own eyes.

 

[SAB380]

I started another thread with a potential compromise ..but I guess this is the 'definitive' thread.

See 'The Mighty Anaconda' video as a good example of Frontier using the 3rd person view ...or pretty much ANY video they release actually.

Allow a 3rd person view only when:
1) In supercruise
2) During the hyperspace jump (which is really a form of loading screen)
3) When docking using the auto-docking computer

These three processes all use a 3rd person view in The Mighty Anaconda video and it looks great in doing so.

Not one of these three things offers any sort of combat or gameplay advantage (in 2 of them you don't even have control of the ship....) and for those that don't want to risk any break in immersion, they can simply not use the toggle switch on the keyboard to switch to this temporary 3rd person view.


At that point, I can't see any possible argument against allowing people to enjoy a small amount of 3rd person view other than stomping your feet and yelling, "no you can't have it because!"

 

[Togg]

1st world solution to having a 3PV?.... have a camera man follow you.... IE. a sidewinder with experience filming... deal with it.......

 

[CaptainSodom]

I started another thread with a potential compromise ..but I guess this is the 'definitive' thread.

See 'The Mighty Anaconda' video as a good example of Frontier using the 3rd person view ...or pretty much ANY video they release actually.

Allow a 3rd person view only when:
1) In supercruise
2) During the hyperspace jump (which is really a form of loading screen)
3) When docking using the auto-docking computer

These three processes all use a 3rd person view in The Mighty Anaconda video and it looks great in doing so.

Not one of these three things offers any sort of combat or gameplay advantage (in 2 of them you don't even have control of the ship....) and for those that don't want to risk any break in immersion, they can simply not use the toggle switch on the keyboard to switch to this temporary 3rd person view.


At that point, I can't see any possible argument against allowing people to enjoy a small amount of 3rd person view other than stomping your feet and yelling, "no you can't have it because!"

Not good enough. We should be able to take cockpitless screenies while flying around, preferably with our ship in them. Plenty of suggestions in this thread to balance that - balancing concerns have been blown way out of proportion.

Link to thread is missing?

 

[VanQ]

Sorry, dont read the full thread - my apologys if this idea is come up before - but what about stick the 3rd-Person option in a sort of Battle-Recorder/Blachbox, so you can watch your flight later in diferent angles, analyse your fighting/flight skills, compose videos or just enjoy th view of your vessel.

 

[Completely Harmless]

Not good enough. We should be able to take cockpitless screenies while flying around, preferably with our ship in them. Plenty of suggestions in this thread to balance that - balancing concerns have been blown way out of proportion.

Haven't read the whole thread, but how about something like this:

You "aim the camera" in the direction you want to grab a screenshot and then press another key other than the default or 4k grab and the game offsets the screenshot to outside the ship in the opposite direction.

One shortcoming -- can take a head-on screenie... And that's just one.

But, you get a screenshot and can't "abuse" it.


Personally I would mind a drone that circled around the ship within a preset radius (with some adjustments), only active with a stationary ship and that would automatically returned to the ship if in a hostile situation (i.e., engaged in a battle, not watching one without being involved with either side).

 

[NeilF]

I started another thread with a potential compromise ..but I guess this is the 'definitive' thread.

See 'The Mighty Anaconda' video as a good example of Frontier using the 3rd person view ...or pretty much ANY video they release actually.

Allow a 3rd person view only when:
1) In supercruise
2) During the hyperspace jump (which is really a form of loading screen)
3) When docking using the auto-docking computer

These three processes all use a 3rd person view in The Mighty Anaconda video and it looks great in doing so.

Not one of these three things offers any sort of combat or gameplay advantage (in 2 of them you don't even have control of the ship....) and for those that don't want to risk any break in immersion, they can simply not use the toggle switch on the keyboard to switch to this temporary 3rd person view.


At that point, I can't see any possible argument against allowing people to enjoy a small amount of 3rd person view other than stomping your feet and yelling, "no you can't have it because!"

I suspect most people wanting to use this feature would find that a bit too limiting IMHO. I'd still suggest a simple set of limitations/nerfs would suffice in making the view only good for its intended purpose.

 

[Rog]

In case anyone's late to the thread, and doesn't fancy a 3 hr read, here are a list of suggested 'nerfs' to an external camera drone (see also 1st post):

• Time delay (5-10 seconds?) in both deploying and docking the drone.
• Drone is 'noisy' on scanners. You shine brightly - no hiding.
• No HUD while using drone. Maybe basic info available on a toggle.
• Only limited ship controls available/ ship is sluggish.
• Drone has limited range/ drone is sluggish.
• Drone can be destroyed.
• Maximum time the drone can be deployed for. Maybe it has to recharge/cool down.

There are probably more, and these have been suggested to placate the almighty gods of PvP balance and to remove any imagined combat advantage.

Again: we do NOT want a general 3rd person view for general piloting.

Personally, I don't want a scratchy, knackered view on an in-cockpit viewpanel - this rather defeats the whole point of wanting to enjoy the visuals at certain points in the game. Likewise, a black box recorder thing to view stuff later (while fine if you're making a video) isn't what many want.

Some of the HUD comes via implants, so there will be some commonality and visibility when you're not in the pilot's chair. However the cockpit has always been a physical presence for us, so the simple answer is that we want it that way

Michael

Completely agree with that. IMO, any external drone feed should be viewed in exactly the same way as the trading, outfitting and map screens. See the above quote.

 

[SAB380]

Not good enough. We should be able to take cockpitless screenies while flying around, preferably with our ship in them. Plenty of suggestions in this thread to balance that - balancing concerns have been blown way out of proportion.

Link to thread is missing?

I suspect most people wanting to use this feature would find that a bit too limiting IMHO. I'd still suggest a simple set of limitations/nerfs would suffice in making the view only good for its intended purpose.

Lol well i agree ... But I was trying to come up with something that the 'anti-view' crowd couldn't possibly have a problem with.....but surprisingly a few people STILL managed to fall back on 'no that still goes against frontiers design intention of the cockpit'

...and that point you realise some people are arguing just for the sake of it. For some it has little to do with gameplay or immersion. It's simply about trying to stop something happening.

 

[CaptainSodom]

...and that point you realise some people are arguing just for the sake of it. For some it has little to do with gameplay or immersion. It's simply about trying to stop something happening.

And it is exactly this kind of forum meta-gaming which many have justifiably fought and warned about in other threads on a whole another topic regarding a certain group of players on another game.

Seems like such community-destroying and soul-sucking gamer is already here.

 

[Tek]

We need to be able to press a hotkey and pan around our ship from the outside so people like me who like spaceships can drool over how they look and take screen shots. Press the hotkey again and we are back in the pilot seat. No grainy videos or killable drones. Keep it simple.

 

[NeilF]

We need to be able to press a hotkey and pan around our ship from the outside so people like me who like spaceships can drool over how they look and take screen shots. Press the hotkey again and we are back in the pilot seat. No grainy videos or killable drones. Keep it simple.

I agree killable drones seem unnecessary. But if the explanation (& nerfing) is done under the explanation of a drone? No problem there surely?