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I am one who thinks I voted in the wrong category. IF there was a 3rd person mode completely separate from 1st person I do not care as they won't affect me at all. But now it seems that is not what the OP meant. Oh well.....
External View [A definitive discussion]
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I concur. Any "external drone" feature should be kept as simple as possible IMHO... There shouldn't be loads of ifs buts and whens about it.
Deploy, use, dock with as few rules as possible.
Indeed...
must be conditions though to avoid infinite range and allow recovery (not one time use devices)... drones could be available for various concepts which can help in different players careers (like mining, salvaging and data packet selling).
I agree with you but I would add that the underlying motivation of many of the people who are pushing an external view option is probably familiarity. The majority of flying games have a third person view and thus E
being focused on first person only is something different.Many people have an aversion to the unfamiliar.
The vast majority of games I have played have all had external views. The only exception in my experience is really the first person only views in some Arma 2 and 3 servers, in particular DayZ. It was something I had never really considered until I experiences its limitation and the immersion is fantastic.
One other example would be the harder difficulty setting on War Thunder which are very immersive but less populated due to those who prefer the instant action of arcade mode.
Thus I support the current Frontier model of first person only with no external view whatsoever. Now that doesn't mean I would be against the ability to launch a piece of equipment which could be controlled and viewed via a cockpit scanner, nor would I be against being able to lean closer to a ship window to avoid viewing window struts.
When players can move around their ship I am sure there will be some ships which will lean themselves more towards a photo journalist role.
Nor am I against an external camera fitted to a hardpoint on a ship which can be deployed at will.
Lol, right, you don't want to wait until you can get out of your ship, you don't want to have to get out so you can see your ship exit a station, both very poor excuses.
You point me those artificial limitaions and restrictions again as if they are a better idea than just getting out of your ship which at least would be a realistic and within what appears to be DBs vision of the game.
If you want to watch ships entering and leaving a station just park outside one and wait.
The DLC is planned and will be released, EVA is planned to be the first one and should follow failry soon according to FD.
If you wait for EVA you dont have to add in all those dodgy things like taking time to get you drone going or having your ship show up hot or not being able to see anything your scanner doesn't show that's just all fudgeware to make what you want work.
you need NONE of that if you just get out the ship, if yu want to get out in the middle of a battle then just do so, you could jetpack over to an asteroid and look over the edge ina fight if you want, it doesn't matter, because you have to get back to your ship to use any advantge that you gained, and if you are relaying info to friends then that's fine, because you risk you pilot alone and without armour and you risk your ship, floating alone and vulnerable.
It can be done without having to add forced conditions, there is no real argument to counteract it unless you want to fly your ship while using a third person view and why would you want to do that unless you think you can gain an advantage?
It still find it a shame how many posters with an agenda choose to speak on behalf of the "majority" or "most" people and phrase it in such a way to imply that the majority will be thus lacking something that "they" desire.
The truth is that YOU and those who agree with you will feel that you are lacking in something. If you want to claim "most people" then you need to be able to substantiate that statement with facts otherwise you are just blowing emotional smoke as you attempt to push your propaganda.
I won't have "missed out on the opportunity to enjoy it more through external views," and I bet there are many like me. In fact I consider the introduction of external views within the context of how many are presenting it to be an opportunity to enjoy it less due to a loss of immersion.
An external view of a ship (with the exception of external cameras) ought not be an easy thing. Jumbo jets and fighter planes do not have detached external views, nor do helicopters or race cars. I think the practical solution is an external camera fitted on a ship through which a player can access through the controls in the ship, the footage can be viewed and recorded from in the ship. Later on a player can access this footage for editing purposes when not playing the game.
My two cents, or is it pence?
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In favour of or against ? Yes or No?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Logically....
If you answer yes, you are saying you are either for, or against.
If you answer no, your are saying you are neither for, nor against.
Make sense? :S
I love boolean algebra, it may make me a bit of a freak, but a logical freak
You are definitely neither one thing nor the other.
I took a wild guess and voted no - hoping no means no to 3rd person mode
I think I guessed right since 49 people also voted no, and only 9 voted yes (at the time of this post). From what I've gathered from the half a dozen threads on this subject the vast majority are against 3rd person view so I'm confident my no vote was cast in the the correct category.
Possibly.
Hopefully.
I do not really see what there is of complicated in this poll. There are two choices (yes= in favour, No = against) for a single proposal (Mode " 1st person " And mode " 3rd person "). There are not two proposals. The proposal is simple: the "AND" makes indissociable both modes, for make a single proposal. It is a "AND" not "OR".
Really not complicated.
Just read the statement, instead of howling like a pack of hungry wolves
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No thanks, you wouldn't drive your car from 6ft above and behind so the same applies to in-game... Let's keep it real people, it's not an arcade game...
Wait a minute, I thought I was backing an arcade game?
I was sure people round here were saying they want an arcade game? :smilie: No ?
I agree with you but I would add that the underlying motivation of many of the people who are pushing an external view option is probably familiarity. The majority of flying games have a third person view and thus E
Many people have an aversion to the unfamiliar.
Not sure if I agree with that...
I suspect most people eager for an external view see it only as a means of getting that "post card" moment; 99% of the time cockpit view will be perfect, but when that "selfie" moment arrises, or something unusual or special is occuring, I suspect an external view will prove more enjoyable (immersive) to some than trying to see it through a cockpit window.
If people want to have immersion, fine dont use the external views. If a server has it set to 'cockpit only' thats great, but they shouldn't just not have the views available because a few people dont want it. There are a lot who WILL and this forum doesn't represent everyones views either.
Make up any fiction you want (In your head) about how a magical 3p view is made in the game but at the end of the day it should be there for people who want to enjoy the beautiful graphics in the game.
Make up any fiction you want (In your head) about how a magical 3p view is made in the game but at the end of the day it should be there for people who want to enjoy the beautiful graphics in the game.
NeoRacer, this is direct quote from Alpha forum, Sandro is main designer of ED
Hello Commander Barns!
Just to clarify: the first person only view was not implemented because of any multiplayer consideration - it was a design choice that we feel supports the "you are in the world" experience we're aiming for. Obviously, I'm not saying you have to agree that it was a good choice though!
Having said that, from the outset Elite: Dangerous has pretty much always been aimed at multiplayer that includes adverserial play; this is why we are also looking at a groupling system, to allow players who wish to avoid the stress to still enjoy the game with mutually co-operative friends. Again, I'm not saying "we're right!", I'm just explaining the reasoning behind our choices.
In truth, there is still a long way to go and still a lot of change possible.
It isn't group of people forcing POV to you. It is design decision by FD themselves. There will be ways to enjoy graphics without unlimited explict 3rd person view.
You maybe misunderstood my post? I did not intend to imply most people want external views?
I said in response to the point "wait for the EVA DLC to see your ship from the outside", "Most people would have played the heck out of the game and missed the opportunity to enjoy it all the more through external views."
I don't feel that is an unfair suggestion? If that DLC takes a year or two to arrive (if it does), for many players the initial "wow" factor would be gone. Many (most?) players would have clocked up hundreds/thousand hours of gameplay and the "honeymoon period" would be over. For all those wanting to capture/experience an exterior view - they would not have been able to? :S
The comment was not meant to suggest most players want external view.
You're again infering I (& others) are suggesting most people want external view. I think you've jumped to a rash conclusion there - I've generally tried to use the word "many". Which I think is a fair word to use in such a grey area.
Possibly... Maybe... Not the point...
Again, if it can be offered with no cost to gameplay, what is the issue to people who don't wish to use it? Don't press the button
So you don't even like the idea of an external drone with which you can see an external view? Which seems to be the approach the game may be going, and one which I suspect most people wanting an external view are happy with, as long as it gives a simple/usable view?
If not, why? Bearing in mind you don't have to use it if you don't wish to.
That's a nice feature, and some people would clearly love it. But I suspect many people wanting an external view simply want it to experience "live gameplay" from a different perseptive for a few moments.
ie: You're coming out of a space station and a large group of ships are entering into it past you. I know I'd love to switch to an external view to enjoy the moment.
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I think the main objection is still the idea that the experience should be from the cockpit with limited view giving a certain flair. I don't want to loose that either, but it's also unrealistic to not have advanced vision systems in a starship. And if all screenshots always have the cockpit they will look samey, lack of different composition will hurt word of mouth marketing.
But what is the objection against camera drones vs. external view? I don't see a noticeable difference in how the feature would work? Just curious.
Personally I think it would be best having a "3D holo monitor" pop up in your cockpit to see an external view. Maybe something curved like a hemisphere. You can turn your head away and look around like normal in your cockpit, but if you face the monitor, it covers 90% of the screen. It's not really a disadvantage to taking screenshots, they'd always be perfect or even higher resolution than your screen. Although videos hmm. Yeah you need to have fullscreen view for vidcap that is pixel perfect. But being able to snap in and out of it to keep the illusion. Of course frame rate might drop with a "drone monitor" because you have to render the scene twice.
You would toggle control of your ship or external view cam, could look to your left (where the scanner list is atm) and switch to the external navigation. Personally I'm in favor of having the camera drone not just in orbit mode (centered on your ship) but be able to rotate freely. See the screenshot in op where the ship is not centered. Also take photos of surroundings.
I like this proposal. This would provide new gameplay, missions to gather intel where the enemy is, evidence what happened somewhere e.g. uncover a ploy of a sub faction to undermine the officials, and of course spying. Any photo of any military installation, ship or fleet deployment would be illegal - but also worth something to someone. Spying could be a generic way to make some bucks for the more traitorous players! Wasn't this even in FE2 or was it some other space sim?
And no you don't want to sell top secret illegal photos on the black market that show your cockpit and make you identifiable to whomever the photos end up with
But what is the objection against camera drones vs. external view? I don't see a noticeable difference in how the feature would work? Just curious.
Personally I think it would be best having a "3D holo monitor" pop up in your cockpit to see an external view. Maybe something curved like a hemisphere. You can turn your head away and look around like normal in your cockpit, but if you face the monitor, it covers 90% of the screen. It's not really a disadvantage to taking screenshots, they'd always be perfect or even higher resolution than your screen. Although videos hmm. Yeah you need to have fullscreen view for vidcap that is pixel perfect. But being able to snap in and out of it to keep the illusion. Of course frame rate might drop with a "drone monitor" because you have to render the scene twice.
You would toggle control of your ship or external view cam, could look to your left (where the scanner list is atm) and switch to the external navigation. Personally I'm in favor of having the camera drone not just in orbit mode (centered on your ship) but be able to rotate freely. See the screenshot in op where the ship is not centered. Also take photos of surroundings.
I like this proposal. This would provide new gameplay, missions to gather intel where the enemy is, evidence what happened somewhere e.g. uncover a ploy of a sub faction to undermine the officials, and of course spying. Any photo of any military installation, ship or fleet deployment would be illegal - but also worth something to someone. Spying could be a generic way to make some bucks for the more traitorous players! Wasn't this even in FE2 or was it some other space sim?
And no you don't want to sell top secret illegal photos on the black market that show your cockpit and make you identifiable to whomever the photos end up with
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If you ignore how an external view is presented to you. ie: Full screen, or on a monitor in the cockpit, the problem will still remain with how to balance any gameplay issues it creates.
ie: The increased FOV is main issue raised whereby you can see a far greater angle than from a traditional cockpit view. Or being able to see better behind you etc.
Either we accept cockpit view will be enhanced for everyone with such an additional external view (during combat), or there needs to be some "nerfs" to negate the advantage.
What's your take on this out of interest?
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And the poll seems conclusive, at this point at least.
Sorry, I still don't get it. Both an abstract external view or a camera drone could have the same gameplay limitations, e.g. speed, fov (smaller is better because it looks better), visibility of stealthed enemies (and I find the notion that if you can see them with your eyes and not with your radar preposterous! But it's a compromise for better gameplay
) or making your position known.To me, the only "fixed" difference would be the ingame explanation. Maybe I misunderstood and drone vs external view isn't in contention? :S
Nerfs are not that important, as I've said, I could glue a few raspberries with camera modules on the side of my car right now and drive with an VR headset. I get the gameplay challenge of limited view, but it feels utterly unrealistic to me. But I have no objections to nerfs as long as they don't make taking pictures too annoying.
Personally, I think if you want to be stealthy and sneak up on someone, make sure you have painted your ship pitch black, and navigate carefully so that you don't occlude any stars or be on the backdrop of a planet while you approach someone. Else the scanner should go off immediately. Would give some skill to the whole stealth gameplay. Would also make anyone suspect who flies a black ship
I really do hope that 90% of the space backdrop will be black dotted with stars, and nebula soup rare. Far greater issue for me than immersion breaking arguments against taking nice photos and videos.
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